Heroin should i get on methadone? appreciate input

[smallengine01]

Sooo... by the title im wondering if i should get on the done. here are my reasons for thinking abt it, let me also say i was on it two years ago and it was a disaster.. i was forced on it and i didnt want to get clean.

currently im a daily iv user, going thru a few points to maybe a half gram of east coast powder depending on quality.
ive tried countless times to kick on my own, everything from straight cold turkey to subs, and then being hooked on subs...
its just that i keep going back to the needle, ive been trying for a year and a half, i keep failing every time.
evey time i fail i feel worse about myself, i hate being dopesick and it seems like im sick all the damn time, trying to kick, waiting for time to take the subs etc.
and evey time even if i manage to kick its not for long, before i know it, for any number of reasons im back using.
ive been managing to keep my shit reletavely together despite this addiction, but im getting struung and its not long before im having money troubles again.
i own my own business and right now is height of the busy season (which is why i can afford dope), so i cant go to something like a 30/60 day rehab which id actually like to do.
im between a rock and a hard place, going on shooting dope is too expensive, dangerous and just too shitty for me. subs dont seem to work and even when i do get clean it doesnt last that long.
i hate the thought of going to the fucking clinic, but i feel like im outof options.
on top of that a friend of mine got on done three months ago and went from almost being homeless w no job to a job he likes a nice car and money in the bank.
if i spent mymdope money on a car i could be riding a fucking bently.
id appreciate some input, what you guys think?

 

[jamesBrown]

I SERIOUSLY don't like methadone as an option for addiction therapy if the user/addict in question has...

1. A family member, friend, or really just anyone who cares about him and is willing to help out by making sure he stays clean. This would most likely include drug testing you and checking in with you(in person) EVERY SINGLE DAY(at least for the first couple of weeks) as well as by phone every 1 to 3 hours.

2. A support structure(most likely would be the same person(s) as in number 1) who's job it is to provide emotional support to help you get through all the hard times. They may also help you with other things, like the things listed in number 1, but their main priority is to help keep you grounded to the concept of being sober as well as to be your "rock" so to speak...meaning, they do whatever it takes to keep you from using and they NEVER budge an inch. They should often remind you of why you are getting clean and what you will lose if you don't...i.e...money/career/family/friends/etc. They make it PERFECTLY clear to you that if you don't get clean you will lose the right to be around them and many other of your loved ones(your loved ones obviously have to agree with this).


So basically, I'm trying to say that you need people who you care about, and who care about you, that are willing to be your sobriety foundation for you to build your new life on top of. If you have that then I highly recommend NOT using methadone. Either try a weaning schedule with the opioids you use or get on suboxone, but only for a few weeks AT MOST.... preferably just a couple.

If you don't have people in your life who care for/love you enough to do this for you then maybe you can look into possibly seeing if methadone is for you. Just be aware of what you're getting yourself into.

Good luck!
jB

 

[Jabberwocky]

In my experience opioid replacement therapy coupled with other outpatient services (therapist, doctor(s), possibly a group therapy program, etc) provides really amazing oppertunty.

If you're concerned about saving money, not doing anything illegal (you are business owner after all) and having more stability, methadone can be a really great option.

Have you ever been in treatment or tried a buprenorphine program before? If you're a current IV user it's not generally a problem getting on methadone, but some places prefer you have a prior treatment history.

Methadone was what really allowed me to finally address and overcome my opioid issues. Don't get me wrong, it's much better not being on methadone, but being on methadone was much better than being on heroin. Tapering and detoxing from methadone was infinitely more manageable than most people might think.

 

[PoppyHaze]

Methadone is the most addictive opiate that we know of. Buprenorphine is slightly better, but I don't know anyone that has successfully stopped using either medication. You are just replacing the H with something just as bad, only big pharma is your dealer. Look into Kratom, and poppy seed tea. Those are both natural, and still addicting, but the done clinic will grab you by the balls. They keep you on it for years, and for the first few months, you have to go daily, between 530am and 11am. It might only be the case where I'm from tho, so no offense to anyone that has successfully stopped using those medications. I was smoking a few points a day at one point, and used poppy seed tea to quit. I have been heroin free for about 8 months now. Good luck to you. I hope you look into the seeds on here, there is plenty of info on how to make it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

That is the product of the kind of uninformed attitude that keeps addiction treatment in America in the dark ages. When push comes to shove, MMT has been shown over decades to be the most effective treatment for IV heroin users (at least when HRT and other modalities are available).

 

[smallengine01]

as far as a support system goes, its pretty much me on my own. parents and god parents are dead, my brothers are way too busy w their own family and kids, and my friends are all users, and an ex girlfriend who will basically say abt two words to me and couldnt really give a shit.
ive been to the clinic before and im aware of all the bs and that im basically trading one addiction for another, but w a detox or suboxone i always fail after a short time clean. that is also one of the very frustrating things... that ive kicked and or gotten on subs over a dozen times and im so tired of being dopesick on a very regular basis, only to trip up and use again.
also, dope is expensive and im pretty well strung at this point i cant afford ro keep this up at all anymore.
im basically out of options i feel, idk what to do besides methadone at this point

 

[My3sons]

Don't listen to people who don't know what they're talking about. Mmt is what you make of it. If you are serious and truely want to change your ways, mmt is a great option. Like everything else some people give it a bad name. I haven't relapsed since I started. I was at 110 in the beginning and am down to 60. If you work the program and actually follow the directions and advice given by your counselor going down is relatively painless. You just have to do it the right way. It's been a year and a half for me and I can honestly say I feel ready to close this chapter. It's not just a replacement. I don't get high! I work, have 3 kids and look completely normal. You would never guess I was an mmt patient. When on dope I was down to 114 lbs and thin as a rail. Just be ready and really want to get clean and you along with everyone else that REALLY wants to get clean can. The unfortunate thing isn't that many people aren't ready or really don't want it and give replacement a bad name.

 

[smallengine01]

that was me before when i was on mmt, was forced on it and didnt really want to get clean. now ive been trying to quit unsuccesfully for almost a year now, just to go through withdrawl, be sick, then clean for a short time then back on dope. nothing else is working, im at the end of my rope. i just dont know what to do. subs dontnwork

 

[Jabberwocky]

I definitely found methadone far superior to buprenorphine at managing cravings. You sound like an ideal candidate for MMT. Schedule an appointment with a local clinic manager and see what you think of them.

As My3sons said, MMT is what you make of it, and its most definitely not just changing one addiction for another. It's easily a step in the direction of realizing a healthier lifestyle.

 

[Salemcoyote]

For what it's worth, I've failed on mmt and I've succeeded on mmt. Like the others said, it's all what you make of it.

If you still want to get high, methadone ain't gonna do a damn thing to stop you. My clinic doesn't give two shits whether or not you pass a urine test, they'll keep dosing you regardless. Most people I know just use methadone as a safety net to fall back on in case they can't score that day.

You can tell right away who is clean: the people who have take homes.

 

[smallengine01]

so i went to the clinic today got started on a measly 20mg going up 5 a day to 60 which i know will be more than enough from past experience (dont want to go over 40), and ill be totally whacked.
at first they were very strict over the phone on monday. you have to come in in full withdrawl, no benzos at all in your system, on tuesdsy when i called back they said you can be on benzos, but you have to get off them in 30 days, and you can do a little dope ro get off e, but dont be high lol.
i just feel better now, even from going and getting this process started i feel like im on the right road. i have some type of support, and a program to help me, im not all alone with this shameful secret anymore

 

[Jabberwocky]

Also, although there would be absolutely nothing with staying around 40mg, what is important is you feel comfortable and not constantly craving heroin. If that means going up to 90mg over a couple months and then slowly going back down over a much, much longer period. Point is, the dose that works for you is the dose that is right for you. Sometimes having a set number in mind can be a little counter productive, although you'll figure out what works for you OP.

In any case, I'm glad you've taken the first steps on this. Although it sounds like your clinic isn't one of the more lax establishments, it is much easier in the short/mid/long term doing everything you can to comply with their policies regarding illegal/non-prescription drug use. It will also help you get more out of the methadone without having to worry or getting stressed ouabout about clinic bs.

 

[JackiePeyton]

Methadone and Suboxone are just tools. All tools are as good as the person using them. It depends on whether you want to work it or not. Different people do better on different programs. Methadone is a stricter program with more oversight while bupe allows more freedom. Some people benefit from the requirements to attend the methadone clinic more regularly. I myself did not enjoy going to the methadone clinic. I felt like I didn't need that much support I had just gotten myself in over my head and needed to get off the shit. One thing to avoid is to linger on the medication too long when you are simply too scared to taper off. As everyone else has said try not to stay on it very long, do a taper and see how it goes. I have had clinicians tell me that there are few select people who seem to need these programs for life. I think those people are few and far between and I wouldn't even consider that as an option. One other thing to consider and this doesn't seem to be your case but anyone in any legal trouble who may be going to prison does not want to get on methadone because coming off of that cold turkey is much more difficult than Suboxone. If there's any chance that you're going to have to stop abruptly go with buprenorphine

 

[Jabberwocky]

Coming off methadone isn't necessarily more difficult than buprenorphine. If anything, it's easier to structure an accurate highly organized taper. I didn't suffer too much coming off buprenorphine, but coming off methadone was far easier both in terms of the eventual withdrawal and maintaining a consistent taper.

Like you said, it's all about how one does it. And on top of that, the process can be experienced entirely differently by two different individuals. The message that this stuff, like any form of treatment, is best thought of as a set of tool is spot on.

 

[My3sons]

Very true mmt has more structure. I for one needed that. With subs I took more when I wanted to feel it, sold them, starting to shoot them and then full on relapsed and ended up worse than before. So for me, the structure of the clinic helped change my ways over time! It is a pain in the ass having to go sometimes but some of us need a tight leash in the beginning. Makes it easy to hang yourself with too much rope. Anyhow, you will do just fine as long as your ready and want to change your life. Good luck

 

[losangeles1993]

Methadone = LIQUID HANDCUFFS ..My friends mom had a heroin addiction of 4 years and shes been on Methadone now for 17 YEARS...better off trying to take Suboxone seriously my friend..like take an honest go at it. were you trying to seriously get clean when you were taking subs??

 

[Jabberwocky]

Again, more from the uninformed about the supposed risks of methadone. I wonder if your friends mom thinks she'd have been better off just using her DOC.

To the OP: Some clinics are stricter than others about benzos. If you get a note from your doctor saying you also need the benzos and that they are aware you're also taking methadone, most clinics will work with you.

 

[Erikmen]

Methadone = LIQUID HANDCUFFS ..My friends mom had a heroin addiction of 4 years and shes been on Methadone now for 17 YEARS...better off trying to take Suboxone seriously my friend..like take an honest go at it. were you trying to seriously get clean when you were taking subs??

I often hear that subs can be as bad as Methadone if you are using this comparison. Methadone has a long life in your body and you can easily adapt to a normal way of living and drag this habit for years and years thinking you are basically cured. I was on methadone for almost 8 years and that could easily have become 16 or more. It all depends whether you use it as a taper or as an indefinite way of life, so to speak.

 

[Harry J Assslinger]

After wasting significant resources on multiple inpatient and outpatient rehabs, detoxes and attending/(and occasionally leading) hundreds of 12-step meetings...all to achieve (at best) a week of sobriety in the real world, I began medication-assisted therapy.

After two years in the program, my life has dramatically improved. Since entering and stabilizing in treatment: I haven't been arrested. I haven't been dopesick. I've been continuously employed. My family and I remembered how enjoyable our relationships are. I now have stable, comfortable housing. I'm not wracked with despair and that sense of desperate need for drugs. I smile more. I even sort-of like myself.

As others have noted, it's all in what you make of it. The methadone is just one component of my success. My clinic is staffed by competent, compassionate staff with serious academic credentials and certifications. I've made excellent use of the voluntary group sessions, and I have wonderful relationships with several counselors on an individual basis. Through the clinic, I've made sober friends and have developed new interests and hobbies.

I even managed to stay off dope for a full year. That's 50x my previous record clean time.

For those of us who can't seem to succeed with other treatment modalities, having tried time and again to force ourselves into a sobriety our brains simply won't accept, MAT combined with therapy is the proven most efficacious path to a sustainable, satisfying life.

 

[tacodude]

If you still want to get high, methadone ain't gonna do a damn thing to stop you. My clinic doesn't give two shits whether or not you pass a urine test, they'll keep dosing you regardless. Most people I know just use methadone as a safety net to fall back on in case they can't score that day.

The truth here even my counselor acknowledges this. Some don't even have issues obtaining to use and just stay on at a low dose so if they get arrested they won't have to go through bullshit to get methadone and start it right away. The treatment systems fucked up.


That being said methadone has its use, but will only work if one makes it work. For me all I can get is stabilizing from use, but at the cost of developing manic energy I usually don't have that I think Nmda antagonists cause due to similarities between the way mxe and ketamine affected me. Plus having to dose once a day is pointless for pain and is still a rollercoaster ride of pain unless the dose is excessively high making the manic state worse even unbearable and would only work split dose, but it's so much bullshit for that to happen as it requires take homes. If you're not suffering with chronic pain it could be useful 30 mg keeps most withdrawals away, but it would be easier if the dose was split or something else was used especially at bed time and waking up.