Shelf-life of Phenethylamines, & Stimulant drugs (2C-X, MDx, FA, MXE..)

[Kishka]

Hey

I have a question running in my mind lately. I was looking at my alien stuff and I was trying to determinate what is the "expiration date" of these drugs

Are "2Cs" & DOx stable enough to be kept for let's say years & beyond ? I think I should have some 2Cs for 2 - 3 years now... Should I expect a potency loss?
What about the stimulant one such as MDMA, Methylone, 2-FA (Fluoramphetamine), 5/6-APB's? How do we know the "expiration date".. I managed to obtain quite a stash and of course I won't take so much, so I should keep them for months & years (Let's say 10 years). I'm not a daily drugs user so..

Any opinions about the expiration date of dissociatives such as Methoxetamine, 2-MeO-Ketamine, Nor-Ethyl-KET, 3-MeO-PCP ?

I recently obtain some "AL-LAD" & "LSZ" unfortunately I won't take them frequently, I'll probably store them for months or even years too... I put them in my freezer in a small box.
The whole stash is in powder form and mainly Hydrochlorite salt I may have some Fumarate salt Tryptamines in the lot.

I must say that all of my alien stash is kept in amber glasses vial, in a box with some dessicant put in the dark between 15 - 28 °C Max. (Depending on the weather ofc). Should I expect potency loss if one day I decided to make some research.... :D

Any suggestions ?

Thank you guys

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

I'm not sure if there will be degradation of those substances after 10 years, but I doubt it, and if there is it will be minimal.
People have kept 2c and MDx chems for years without noticeable degradation.
@-FA and 5/6-APB I don't have a clue but haven't heard anything saying they're unstable.
Dissociatives I can't comment on, and neither can I do AL-LAD or LSZ, although I speculate kept in a freezer in a small box like you plan on doing should keep the blotters good for a pretty long time.

 

[Kishka]

Hi,

All right I'm still thankful for your opinion on my thread Holy Toast. I would like to hear other people's opinion from here aswell

Again thank you !

 

[lamanogaucha]

The way that you're keeping your "alien stash" is fine, except that it should be colder -- 2-6 degrees Celsius is much better. At that temperature, your phenethylamines should last a lifetime. On the other hand, tryptamines and LSD analogs are more fragile and should ideally be kept at negative temperatures. That said, at 2-4 degrees, they should last many years, provided that you keep them away from moisture, air and light. Regarding dissociatives, I'm not so sure, but I treat them as if they were phenethylamines.

Did you really get AL-LAD and LSZ in powder form? If so, be extremely careful with that, Svenika!

 

[Kishka]

Hi,

Thanks lamanogaucha As for AL-LAD and LSZ nope they are in blotter tabs, 150µg each. I don't think I could store my phenethylamines at 2 - 6 °C saddenly. Is room temperature really a problem for storage ? They are in the dark, in amber glasses vials so..

Do you have any ideas for the stimulant one such as MDxx, APB's, Fluoramphetamine drugs ?

Thanks so much

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

I've never heard of them degrading, and my 2c-e never degraded after 14 months in solution in a plastic 7up botle

 

[Kishka]

Nice thanks !

 

[Asante]

If you keep it in the perfect dark at room temperature under dry conditions I see no sane way for 2/3/4-fluoro(meth)amphetamines, 5/6/M/E-APB compounds, DMAA and MPA as their hydrochlorides to go bad. Thats all very sturdy stuff.

2C-D, 2C-E and 2C-P probably are among the most stable 2C's. Under the same conditions they likely will keep for many years. In the freezer, probably for a lifetime. Same goes by extension for DOM, DOET and DOPR. Not much generally happens to a simple alkyl group.

Mescaline is said to last a lifetime in the dark, on the shelf. Mummified peyote buttons were found in tombs that were still just about as potent as they were when they were picked.

Introducing a halogen might, over a long time, introduce reactivity so you can probably say that the order of stability for DOx and 2Cx is:

DOC>DOB>DOI
2CC>2CB>2CI

Introducing a thioether introduces instability as they tend to oxidize to sulfoxides and sulfones, therefore all 2C-T's and ALEPH's will have an enhanced susceptibility to the effects of oxygen and light.

As a rule all tryptamines are light and oxygen sensitive, especially as the freebase. They should be stored in salt form, under a protective inert gas or liquid, in the cold.

Arylcyclohexylamines without a ketone group will be quite stable in salt form, but the ones with ketone groups (Ketamine, Methoxetamine, Tiletamine) will tend to spoil over time, and are best kept as dry hydrochlorides in the freezer.

 

[lamanogaucha]

I'm glad to hear that you didn't get the powder form of AL-LAD or LSZ. Those compounds are quite active at extremely small doses.

Room temperature will be fine, but expect them to degrade a little after a number of years, especially the tryptamines and LSD analogs. Your profile states that you live alone, though, so why can't you put the box in the refrigerator? Is there a safety concern? Also, if your fridge doesn't have a thermometer, you can easily buy a cheap one and place it in there. It's money well spent...

The stability of the empathogen/entactogen compounds is generally the same as that of the 2C's, as far as I know, so treat them in the same way.

 

[Si Dread]

I think most of your psychedelic Phens are fine, the 2c-xx, the Doxx will last forever. MDMA & Methylone are pure chemicals & should be equally stable. The APB's I'm sure also fine under normal storage conditions.

The ones you need to look after are the tryptamines, the ergoloids & the 4-fa. 4-fa is the first compound I've ever had go off, some sort of fungus (go figure Lol) got in there & I lost about 5 grams to blue mould. Nice! I had no idea at the time that 4-fa was a weak link & it was stored out of light & away from heat, but outside of the fridge/freezer. 4-fa should be kept in the freezer, protected thoroughly from heat, light & damp. Same goes for your tryptamines & the Al-Lad & LSz (ergoloids).

I'm not interested in dissociatives & have little interest in storing them, but I suspect they too should be very stable at room temp, in the dark & well away, as usual, from any damp!

 

[Kishka]

Thanks to everyone for your detailled replies

So if I understand correctly, it would be dangerous to ingest degraded compound? Asante explained about the Methoxetamine which spoils over time, is there any concerns by ingesting a "spoiled" Mxe?
If I catch everything, DOC is the less stable so is 2C-C? For the Tryptamines mine are Fumarate salt and have them for 2 - 3 years also, kept under the same condition as my phenethylamines

As for the 4-FA, could it be the same with 2-FA? That's kind of weird having a blue mould from powder...

Regarding the freezer, I can't put them since i'm living with other people I already hide AL-LAD & LSZ as I can but vials won't be good to put in there... I have too much of them To be honest I have like 50 differents compounds so... ^^ (I like collecting them, so that's why I'll store them for a long time... I use to try a compound or doing a trial from time to time like 1 - 3 trips every 2 months, something like that :D )

Regards,

 

[Asante]

if I understand correctly, it would be dangerous to ingest degraded compound? Asante explained about the Methoxetamine which spoils over time, is there any concerns by ingesting a "spoiled" Mxe?

Generally all alkaloid like chemicals you ingest are bad for you, but milligram for milligram, decomposed MXE is probably less dangerous as the same weight of MXE.

If I catch everything, DOC is the less stable so is 2C-C?

Nope, they are most stable of the halogens, and the Iodo compounds (2CI/DOI) the least stable.

As for the 4-FA, could it be the same with 2-FA? That's kind of weird having a blue mould from powder...

Pure dry fluoro(meth)amohetamine HCl salts will definitely not mold. Mold can only form with nutrients and water present, so in that case the 4-FA was likely cut with a sugar, and had attracted water somehow or was in solution.

Regarding the freezer, I can't put them since i'm living with other people

If the people are not paranoid, you could put the RC's in lab vials and put them in a lockable strongbox (they have em the size of a lunchbox) and put this locked in the freezer. This is an especially good idea if your "people" are halfsized, curious and have an appetite for ice cream.

 

[Kishka]

Right thank you! I have a better understanding now (sorry i'm not really into chemistry). By alkaloid compounds, what class of molecule is this?

Anyway I think i'll leave my stash with the amber glasses vial then, they are in a dark area and the vials are quite fresh when touched, the temperature is cold inside the vial as I can tell

So to make a conclusion :

- Phenethylamines in powder form (hydrochlorite salt) kept in glasses vial in a dark area should be very stable for a lifetime with minimal change in potency.

- The same could be applied for Stimulants (Cathinones, Fluoro compounds) except for the 4-FA.

- Tryptamines and ergolines compounds (aka 4-ACO/HO-XXX, LSx, ...) are more sensitive and tend to degrades with light and humidity. Tryptamines kept in glasses vial in the dark should be good enough for decades if I don't expose them to the sun or light?

- LSZ & AL-LAD stored in the freezer should be ok for 5 years +/- (I just guess)

- Dissociatives compounds with Ketone group tend to degrades over time. I assumed it should be fine for 5 - 6 years then (still in amber glass vial). Do you know if 2-Meo-Ketamine and Nor-Ethyl-KET are from the same group as 'Mxe' ?



Is my summary correct ?

 

[Asante]

Alkaloid like chemicals are those featuring a hydrocarbon skeleton with amino nitrogens. Basically just about all drugs except for THC, alcohol, GHB and most sedative-hypnotics. Just about all RC's are alkaloids.

 

[Kishka]

Ok thanks for the informations

 

[Si Dread]

Yes, obviously I was most distressed to find blue/green-ish shit in my baggie. I think an inadequately sterilised implement had been used to extract a quantity of product, had deposited something icky in the bag which, not being frozen or even stored in the fridge, had plenty of time to grow before I spotted it. Byebye baggie

 

[Kishka]

Uhg sorry about that

Anyway is my summary correct? (previous posts)

 

[Si Dread]

Yup, pretty much...

Here... top of this list is stuff that lasts for ages with minimal effort, bottom is stuff that need looking after, middle is stuff that will/may go off in time or if stored badly.

TOP - MDMA, 2c-xx, Do-xx, methylone & most cathinones

MIDDLE - Ketamine, Methoxetamine etc

BOTTOM - 4-sub tryptamines, aMT & trypts in general, Flourinated amphetamines (I understand the problems associated with 4-fa carry across to the other flourinated amphetamines)

 

[Kishka]

Ok, awesome thank you Si Ingwe, I'm very happy to have replies from the community Wish I could meet some of you

Kiss from Sweden haha

 

[Si Dread]

Hahaha I suspect many people here might like to meet you too

Anyway, I'm sure I speak for more than just myself, so it's our pleasure %)