Sexual assault during the MAPS trials

[Cream Gravy?]

^The whole Pickard/Skinner bust/lab situation was so fucked in so many ways. LSD is still struggling to escape its MK-ULTRA past

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Defining rape and consent in these situations would be the first hurdle to solving these issues.

But sex and drugs go hand in hand. A conservative minded individual might peg the downfall of society in the mid to late 60s because civil rights, sexual liberty, and drug experimentation became common; someone like myself might say that was the start of the age of Aquarius and that it was about damn time people started taking drugs and having orgies and giving rights to all human beings.

Unfortunately, sex and drugs aren't all flowers and roses right? What can you do about that? Everyone is a perv, deep down inside, somewhere. I get horny when I see women in canvass sneakers. Some people actually like feet which I find weird. Some people like people of the same sex and some people like fat people and some people are keen on youth or thinness.

My point is, it was inevitable that sex and drug experimentation were going to end up tethered to one another, they are of the same kind of nature: exploratory.

There's a major difference between having consensual sex with a partner(s) while all people are intoxicated but can give consent, and sexually assaulting, raping, and/or drugging someone or getting them so high on LSD or MDMA/MDA or other drugs that they cannot consent and the person gives the drugs to someone to force or coerce them into having sex, or rape them.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

There's a major difference between having consensual sex with a partner(s) while all people are intoxicated but can give consent, and sexually assaulting, raping, and/or drugging someone or getting them so high on LSD or MDMA/MDA or other drugs that they cannot consent and the person gives the drugs to someone to force or coerce them into having sex, or rape them.

Don't get me wrong, I agree. Honestly I wonder why alcohol is legal because every rape I've heard about or bore witness to the lead up to IRL involved heavy amounts of liquor. One of my good friends thought she had been slipped MDMA when something was done to her... upon talking it over with her (because she came to me asking what she might have been drugged with) I found out she had been consuming everclear. It was then easy to deduce she hadn't been drugged at all, or rather, she had been, with everclear.

 

[G_Chem]

While I haven’t read the more recent posts (sorry if this is discussed) but I brought this topic up with my girl recently and she made an interesting observation.

Where we live, we have an incredible university (I won’t get more specific) that does a decent amount of psychedelic research at their facilities.

She reminded me that they would often have both a male and female therapist/guide/facilitator to help give the participants a sense of comfort especially if there is past trauma with one gender or the other.

That said I understand how it may be more difficult to open up to two individuals instead of one, but with MDMA hopefully that doesn’t matter so much.

Either way I think it’s a point worth mentioning, maybe MAPS should consider a two therapist approach with both genders present to keep a sense of safety while also accountability.

Also I’d say the participant has past trauma with one gender, having the other gender there helps again make them feel safe and they may be able to finally address the issues.

-GC

 

[polymath]

I remember a guy in one non-English-language drug user forum who had a short and punchy signature in his posts: "First I drug you, then I fuck you".

 

[JackARoe]

Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll. :D

I agree with Mr. Timothy and Mr. Gravy. Sex is a big part of our enjoyment just like drugs. Forcing someone into sex against their consent is rape. Everything else is just sex. It takes a predator to rape. Putting all these names on the predator list because someone doesn't like their philosophy is irresponsible.

I tend to think a big part of the problem is the perception of opinionated people. The initial article that resulted in this post is an example of predator. All the other historical references and big names in the thread seem to be opinion. (I do not know anything about the newer names like Pickard or neurosoup so I have no opinion there)

Lastly we have Rick Doblin visiting this site. And until someone who isn't jaded can convince me he is evil well then I commend his works and accomplishments. Thank you Mr Doblin, Mr. Leary,, Mr. Alpert, Mr,, Kesey, Mr. Stolaroff, etc.... All people I respect to high heaven. So does that make me evil and on that same list? (not that I care about opinions)

That's all I got, I am certainly not arguing. I'll let others do that.

 

[Juniper Bruhmomentius]

Honestly, Im not surprised at all by this.

 

[S.J.B.]

She reminded me that they would often have both a male and female therapist/guide/facilitator to help give the participants a sense of comfort especially if there is past trauma with one gender or the other.

That said I understand how it may be more difficult to open up to two individuals instead of one, but with MDMA hopefully that doesn’t matter so much.

Either way I think it’s a point worth mentioning, maybe MAPS should consider a two therapist approach with both genders present to keep a sense of safety while also accountability.

Also I’d say the participant has past trauma with one gender, having the other gender there helps again make them feel safe and they may be able to finally address the issues.

There was one male and one female therapist in the scenario described in the Quartz article that led to the alleged sexual assault.

 

[G_Chem]

Oh shit my apologies I misred or completely missed that... Lol umm nvm then..

I realize my comments were based on others assessment and not reading over the whole article myself.

My initial interpretation was one female patient with two separate male therapist incidents.

It’s a mind fuck of a situation, I love how they don’t really specify that Dryer and Yenson are actually a couple til the end!! That completely fucks op the dynamic and makes it unnecessarily sexual.

-GC

 

[sekio]

LSD can quite easily become an incapacitant at doses far exceeding what would be considered reasonable for a typical psychedelic experience. I expect if you give the average person 2 milligrams (2000 mcg) of LSD they would have a hard time making sense of anything that happened to them for the next 8 hours or so.

As for contact poisons, the whole "intoxicating herb bath" screams atropine-type intoxication: just like nicotine, atropine/hyoscamine/etc are active transdermally, and doses don't need to be too high before you are in anticholinergic delerium. Having Brugmansia leaves bruised and then held against a large amount of yur body surface area for a while - esp. in the presence of oils, alcohol, elevated temperatures - would almost certainly be enough to make you very, very confused.

I think the take-home message from this is - as with all drugs, it's important to know what you're actually taking. Ideally you would prepare your own ayahuasca from trusted herbs and not have someone just pick some plants (of totally unknown name & effect) and mix it and tell you to take it on goodwill alone.