Safe to take *ten* 25i-NBOME tabs

[Folley]

I have to disagree also, Sekio. Take 10 tabs of LSD and you'll have a ridiculous trip that is going to take you to the root of your sanity and back... take 10 hits of 25i and you will end up in the hospital.


Sure, if someone took 10,000ug of LSD they would probably be in for quite a few complications. That's nearly 100 hits however, and people have certainly taken that much and survived. Take 100 hits of 25i and you are dead, no question. Of course LSD is not as safe as people want to believe, but in all reality it has an very high safety profile that NBOMes completely lack.

 

[sekio]

take 10 hits of 25i and you will end up in the hospital.

Depends on the size of the hit. If you were taking ten 1600mcg LSD tabs, it would be a sad story. People do have bad reactions to it. Again, see the article about the otherwise normal guy having a seizure after 450mics of LSD. If you're not taking it in controlled settings then anything goes... By the same token, there are more and more reports of people taking 1000mcg+ of 25X and living to tell the tale. Bad news does travel faster than good and it's much easier to distribute your drug experiences around.

All I'm saying is this: On paper some of the 25x drugs have equal or higher affinity for the psychedelic serotonin receptors than LSD does. At the end of the day they are both crazy potent psychedelics that can hurt you if you don't treat them with respect.

Why don't people treat them that way? More appropriately, what's wrong with implying that reckless dosing of any high potency psychedelic is a bad idea? LSD shouldn't get a free pass like it's some sort of miracle elixir.

 

[[éS]Infinite]

I just want to point out as well that a lot of NBOMe blotters are dosed extremely high, usually at around 1 mg per blotter, which in my opinion is entirely too high and likely a contributing factor to the health issues surrounding this compound (aside from price and availability). While the NBOMe series clearly does not have the same safety profile as LSD, it certainly wouldn't hurt cutting blotter strength down to ~250 ug. At least then people would have to work their way up and couldn't jump straight into multi-milligram territory (unless for some crazy reason you like to do 10 blotters). But I suppose vendors would have to spend more money on paper...

 

[Folley]

More appropriately, what's wrong with implying that reckless dosing of any high potency psychedelic is a bad idea? LSD shouldn't get a free pass like it's some sort of miracle elixir.

I didn't say it's a bad idea, in fact I even agreed that high doses of LSD are not "safe"... however, people have died from 25i. This hasn't been reported with LSD, even with people often taking stupidly "heroic" doses.



by "hit", I obviously meant a near standard dose. The fact is that LSD has been around for nearly a century with very few seriously dangerous side effects attributed to it.. 25i has been sold for a few years, with quite a few deaths and an uncountable amount of hospitalizations. That's not saying that LSD is harmless, but it does imply that 25i is quite a bit more dangerous to the average user.

I just want to point out as well that a lot of NBOMe blotters are dosed extremely high, usually at around 1 mg per blotter, which in my opinion is entirely too high and likely a contributing factor to the health issues surrounding this compound (aside from price and availability). While the NBOMe series clearly does not have the same safety profile as LSD, it certainly wouldn't hurt cutting blotter strength down to ~250 ug. At least then people would have to work their way up and couldn't jump straight into multi-milligram territory (unless for some crazy reason you like to do 10 blotters). But I suppose vendors would have to spend more money on paper...

Very true, my first dose was 2mg... it was like a bomb exploded in my brain. What's worse is I think that some of the blotters labeled 1mg are actually quite a bit less as well, so when someone actually gets the true dose and takes what they think is normal, they end up getting a LOT more than they bargained for. With LSD, doubling the dose could potentially lead to a very difficult experience... with 25i you are possibly looking at life threatening complications.


Honestly, they're pretty much on complete opposite sides of the safety portfolio. Has any other psychedelic ever had as many deaths attributed to it in a few year span of time the way 25i has? Perhaps MDMA, but I wouldn't exactly consider that a psychedelic and it's kind of expected when thousands of people get together in a hot warehouse and pop as many random pills as possible.

 

[pmoseman]

10,000 micrograms of LSD is close to 100 times greater than what is considered to be a strong dose for the average person. NBOMes can produce serious physical issues and death at dosages far closer to a recreational dose. Come on, man. Acid may not be perfectly safe, but it's not killing anyone if you take double, triple or even ten times a good dose, which is as far as most people will go.

Somebody said there were no seizures? There were seizures, bah! Death is the only only way to measure harm!

Go find some 25i trip reports were someone actuality died: not surviving due to hospitalization, the investigation concluded for certain exactly what substance was present, show that it was the only substance in their system, the person had no preexisting condition, where death was not related to physical injuries, and NO suicides!

If you find anything, let me know the dose and the weight... I want to be the first person to report an LDLo.

I didn't say it's a bad idea, in fact I even agreed that high doses of LSD are not "safe"... however, people have died from 25i. This hasn't been reported with LSD, even with people often taking stupidly "heroic" doses.



by "hit", I obviously meant a near standard dose. The fact is that LSD has been around for nearly a century with very few seriously dangerous side effects attributed to it.. 25i has been sold for a few years, with quite a few deaths and an uncountable amount of hospitalizations. That's not saying that LSD is harmless, but it does imply that 25i is quite a bit more dangerous to the average user.





Very true, my first dose was 2mg... it was like a bomb exploded in my brain. What's worse is I think that some of the blotters labeled 1mg are actually quite a bit less as well, so when someone actually gets the true dose and takes what they think is normal, they end up getting a LOT more than they bargained for. With LSD, doubling the dose could potentially lead to a very difficult experience... with 25i you are possibly looking at life threatening complications.


Honestly, they're pretty much on complete opposite sides of the safety portfolio. Has any other psychedelic ever had as many deaths attributed to it in a few year span of time the way 25i has? Perhaps MDMA, but I wouldn't exactly consider that a psychedelic and it's kind of expected when thousands of people get together in a hot warehouse and pop as many random pills as possible.

LSD has few dangers? I guess a shotgun has few dangers. How long have those been around?

You are saying the same thing as above, with equally no proof and rattling about MDMA even though people die with a combination of drugs, and die because of dehydration, being in a hot warehouse, etc. If somebody with LSD in their system knocks off, a division of scrutineers are sent out to protect the Messiah.

 

[sekio]

Consider the fact that until recently detection limits of LSD in tissue were high enough as to preclude effective identification of some LSD overdoses. HPLC (the gold standard for detecting stuff like LSD) was only really commercialized in the mid/late-1970s, well after LSD was scheduled. Many people who may have died under the influence of LSD could have been recorded as being from other causes.

Nowadays every drug testing lab has a good HPLC-MS and can detect the tiniest bit of acid or NBOMe or whatever.

 

[Folley]

LSD has few dangers? I guess a shotgun has few dangers. How long have those been around?

Shotguns kill people everyday.. how is that similar to LSD at all?



Are LSD's dangers downplayed? Yes, they are. That doesn't change the fact that it's been used by millions in very high doses. You do make a good point Sekio, but I think it's relatively safe to say that if 10 healthy people take a milligram of acid, they will all survive. If the same 10 people take an equivalent dose of 25i, it's very likely that there will be life threatening complications. LSD's dangers may be downplayed but I don't exactly think a 25i thread about taking 10 hits is the right place to be making that argument.

I'll concede, though. I do agree with your points, I just don't think we should equate the two as they are so far apart when safety is concerned.. IMO.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Somebody said there were no seizures? There were seizures, bah! Death is the only only way to measure harm!

Go find some 25i trip reports were someone actuality died: not surviving due to hospitalization, the investigation concluded for certain exactly what substance was present, show that it was the only substance in their system, the person had no preexisting condition, where death was not related to physical injuries, and NO suicides!

If you find anything, let me know the dose and the weight... I want to be the first person to report an LDLo.


LSD has few dangers? I guess a shotgun has few dangers. How long have those been around?

You are saying the same thing as above, with equally no proof and rattling about MDMA even though people die with a combination of drugs, and die because of dehydration, being in a hot warehouse, etc. If somebody with LSD in their system knocks off, a division of scrutineers are sent out to protect the Messiah.

Damn dude, you don't give up. Keep fighting the evil forces of LSD, someday we'll eradicate them from the planet!

Guys, I think it's been established that the OP realized the danger of his original proposal, and that onlookers will see just how vehemently opposed we all are to people attempting to OD on 25i. The point has gotten across, is there reason for an argument over the safety of LSD? As has been pointed out, stupid doses of LSD are infinitely safer than stupid doses 25i, and there's plenty of evidence to suggest that; that's the point we want to get across, that people should NOT treat it as a substitute for LSD and thus take large doses thinking they'll be fine.

 

[pmoseman]

Very few seriously dangerous side effects.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

^Now you're just drawing all sorts of odd and incomprehensible analogies dude, this thread wasn't even supposed to be about LSD!

And just to rattle your chains, yes, there really are very few dangerous side-effects (in regards to LSD).

 

[pmoseman]

The analogy is a great one actually.

edit: I know someone who watched his friend suicide with a handgun while they were on acid. So preach away, I am all ears. I also met a man who slit another's jugular on acid and thought it pretty was cool. People take acid and don't see a reason why life and death really matter and directly attribute that idea to acid themselves.

 

[Folley]

uh... how? And what "dangerous" side effects are you referring to?

 

[pmoseman]

uh... how? And what "dangerous" side effects are you referring to?

I was quoting you. You said it was dangerous. Subtlety is really not working on you, see the above edit.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

The analogy is a great one actually.

edit: I know someone who watched his friend suicide with a gun while they were on acid. So preach away, I am all ears. I also met a man who slit another's jugular on acid and thought it pretty was cool. People take acid and don't see a reason why life and death really matter.

Yeah, and I know people who've committed suicide without ever taking acid. People can't be depressed?
I've also met very violent people who never touched acid. So now all psychopaths are tripping on LSD? Thank God the government made it illegal, there'd be people eating babies everywhere, stabbing their friends, raping our churches and burning our women!

I certainly never felt the desire to die or to kill on LSD, and I've never met a soul who has either.

Are you seriously trying to make these PCP-esque propaganda stories stick?

Dude, you really, really had a fucked up drug career.

This reminds me of that Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle scene:
-"Dude, I'm soooooo high!"
-"Nooooooo!!!"
-"Marijuana kills!"

 

[pmoseman]

Yeah, and I know people who've suicided without ever taking acid. People can't be depressed?
I've also met very violent people who never touched acid. So now all psychopaths are tripping on LSD? I certainly never felt the desire to die or to kill on LSD, and I've never met a soul who has either.

Dude, you really, really had a fucked up drug career.

I know people kill themselves. I can't shove the fact any closer to your eyeballs that these people did these things because of acid.

Are you in this big of denial about every cause and effect you see? Like when your own brother blows his head off with a shotgun and you can't even cry because you are a emotionless shell?

Take a look around once in a while you might see a connection here and there.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

^Who's an emotionless shell? I certainly haven't ever been while on LSD. I HAVE been when I was depressed, 16, and SOBER.

 

[pmoseman]

Are you seriously trying to make these PCP-esque propaganda stories stick?

It only cost people their lives to tell these stories. It is just silly propaganda. I shouldn't have said anything. Sorry. Anything to not interrupt your groove.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

^I can't honestly believe that you're serious.

And since I know you're serious, I'll reiterate this; why does every thread you enter have to end up being you telling everyone that drugs=suicide/homicide/rape/pillaging/plundering, etc.?

I really shouldn't be so upset about this, I'll admit. I'ma try and cool off.

 

[pmoseman]

^Who's an emotionless shell? I certainly haven't ever been while on LSD. I HAVE been when I was depressed, 16, and SOBER.

It was an allusion to someone I knew who was a dead head.

And you are being way too cynical.

Edit: I get what you're saying. I hung out with a lot of people who did drugs that are not that fucked up or hardcore and people do lots of different drugs, but from out of real experience these tend point to a lot of deaths relatable to LSD that people need to take a look at. I know what I was capable of when I was fucked up. More fucked up shit than when I was sober. I was more reckless and less thoughtful about the drugs I was taking.

sh1nch4n was telling a story about how a ten strip left them in a mess where they kept doing more and more NBOME. that is kind of hard to talk about and deeply personal and confusing. I can also relate to it completely 100%. Being sober does not make me boring it makes me alive and out of prison and off the street.

 

[Folley]

I know people kill themselves. I can't shove the fact any closer to your eyeballs that these people did these things because of acid.

Are you in this big of denial about every cause and effect you see? Like when your own brother blows his head off with a shotgun and you can't even cry because you are a emotionless shell?

Take a look around once in a while you might see a connection here and there.

Correlation does NOT equal causation. There is no connection to be made.