• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ

Ethnobotanicals Research Says Sublingual Salvinorin A Doesn’t Work..

G

G_Chem

Moderator: OD
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
7,881
I stumbled upon this article couple days ago that I thought the community might find interesting. According to this (and quite a few other articles) sublingual Salvinorin A is indistinguishable from placebo. In the case of this article up to 4mg!

link.springer.com

Lack of effect of sublingual salvinorin A, a naturally occurring kappa opioid, in humans: a placebo-controlled trial - Psychopharmacology

Rationale Salvinorin A (SA) is a highly selective kappa opioid receptor agonist and the putative psychoactive compound in Salvia divinorum (SD), an increasingly abused hallucinogenic plant. Objectives The objectives of this study were to characterize the physiological and subjective effects of...
link.springer.com link.springer.com

They talk about other articles with similar results, it seems only Ott has been able to get effects according to his research. With effects noticeable at 100ug.

This seems to directly contradict the numerous anecdotal reports regarding sublingual Salvia. Even ol Hamilton did it for the camera, and he looked proper fucked lol.

One thought that comes to mind is maybe the Salvinorin A is in a more sublingually bioavailable form in the plant/leaf. Or there’s other substances within the leaf that help improve BA.

What’s your thoughts? Who here’s tried Salvia sublingually? Even better who here’s tried it with high potency extracts?

-GC
 
i've never been able to chew enough leaf for long enough, but i've seen plenty of reports (mostly from the ole edot, rip) of people chewing massive amounts of fresh leaf without swallowing much (the word on the street was that swallowing renderednit useless), and getting a proper (but drawn out over 20 minutes) salvia trip.

i have always wanted to try it.

daniel siebert used to tout an alcohol extract, specifically for absorbtion in the oral mucosa (iirc)... and afaik, he's one of the leading authorities on salvia.

maybe, like you suggest, there are other compounds at play which help the availability? or they botched the study...


(edit)

i skimmed, are they saying they gave each participant the minimum dose (or placebo), and then ascended thr dosages every day until they reached 4mg??

perhaps tolerance was at play?
 
Last edited:
nepalnt21 said:
i've never been able to chew enough leaf for long enough, but i've seen plenty of reports (mostly from the ole edot, rip) of people chewing massive amounts of fresh leaf without swallowing much (the word on the street was that swallowing renderednit useless), and getting a proper (but drawn out over 20 minutes) salvia trip.

i have always wanted to try it.

daniel siebert sells (if it is still active) a couple grades of extract, specifically for absorbtion in the oral mucosa (iirc)... and afaik, he's one of the leading authorities on salvia.

maybe, like you suggest, there are other compounds at play which help the availability? or they botched the study...


(edit)

i skimmed, are they saying they gave each participant the minimum dose (or placebo), and then ascended thr dosages every day until they reached 4mg??

perhaps tolerance was at play?
Click to expand...

Possibly but we’d see at least slight effects at 4,000ug if according to Ott 100ug was effective. Also there’s been at least 2-3 other papers which found similar results of little-no psychoactivity.

I am curious on these made-for-sublingual extracts though.. I may look into those more.

-GC
 
I tried Daniel Siebert's tincture sublingually. Does what it says on the tin (or rather Siebert's descriptions on his instruction sheet). Probably the most amazing and weird 45 minutes of my life. I know placebo is a funny thing re. its psychological mechanisms, but I cannot for the life of me imagine this state contrived by belief alone, or negated by the 'nocebo' effect, if that's what happened with the 4mg dose cohort. Surely a bioavailability problem.
 
The whole reason that we know that it's psychoactive at all is because of indigenous use, either as a metate-prepared emulsion, as slowly chewed leaf pairs, or as a cigar-shaped quid iirc. That makes me curious about why these studies have found it to be inactive.

For what it's worth, I've chewed dry leaves on many occasions and never gotten a whisper of an effect. Chewing fresh leaves, however, reliably worked for me.
 
I tried it years ago and it did nothing (dried 20x material). The same stuff blew my mind when smoked.
 
40mg salvinorin A will work orally but it is slow to act
oral requires 30 to 50 times what you need when smoking.
the lungs can transfer this drug to the blood way faster than the gut or tongue and mouth tissue. the lungs have more than 50 times the surface area
the durantion of effects is quick so if you take a subthreshold amount it will not only hit late but will be too low an effect due to slow absorption.
 
Never tried Salvia in any form...but before it was not banned and they got various extract for smokin'....a short,but very potent disso-that's what i heard Original preparation are made by indigienus -like decoction and for divination-chewing fresh leaves.Terpen Salvinorin A is as i know the most potent psychedelick substance on weight by weight basis....so it must be workin' through mucus membranes?I will take a look at research,thanks man.It_s interesting.
 
Pfafffed said:
Sublingually was actually my preferred way to use it when I grew it.
Click to expand...
can you quantify the dose in any way? and what were the effects like? I never really considered going all the way smoking salvia (only had a super mild experience smoking a little bit of dried leaf) because it sounds way too weird for my liking, but chewing intrigued me for years. I had a small plant years ago, but unfortunately my mother managed to kill it taking care of the plants while I was on a Festival or something before I could harvest a single leaf. :D
 
Last edited:
The experience of smoked salvia divinorum was very different than that when I used it buccally. The latter took twenty minutes to start to come on, rose gradually, and lasted for 1-2hrs iirc. It was more like tumbling backwards into a lucid dream. I used it in the dark and in silence.
 
many people confuse the sublingual (under the tongue) use of salvinorin tincture,( like Daniel Siebert used to sell at sagewisdom.org which is no longer coming up for me,) with quidding, which is when you roll up 24 pairs of leaves into a cigar and chew for 20 minutes - and that is not sublingual it is buccal absorption.

bear in mind, pure salvinorin A is a waxy crystalline solid at body temperature, so imagine absorbing a chewed parafin candle mixed with salad. the absorption is very slow sublinually for tincture and buccally for fresh leaves or even orally if swallowing leaves or tinc.

only the vastly larger inner lung surface absorbs quickly enough to have under 1mg be very effective - slow absorption and rapid metabolism and come down (5mins) means that you have to take in a lot to notice the effects orally buccally or sublingually.
 
I used to take Sieberts "extraordinary potion of enchantment". It was very subtle, closed my eyes and I would drift back to some scene from my childhood. Interesting stuff but he stuck it up your arse sideways pricewise.
 
It really was a most extraordinary potion of enchantment. Was it $120 for a bottle with just enough to wet your foreskin?

And it used to burn the roof of your mouth off with the frickin alcohol - "made from tradional native practises"
 
A lot ye-a bunch of fresh leaves-60-70 u chewed them&suck the juices leaved it for a long in the mouth....local indigienous tribes used salvia like this.Decoction made for oral ingestion are used often like medicine-though not psychoactive it cleans the body preparing itself before real ceremony.
 
12-15 years ago, in my salvia experimental phase I got some hight just chewing and keeping dried plant material in the mouth/under the tonge.

It took a lot of time and patience but deffo not placebo as the high was qualitatively identical to the smoked rush that I discovered latter, so maybe there´s something in the plant rendering active or more bioavailable the salvinorin
 
Hexagon Sun said:
12-15 years ago, in my salvia experimental phase I got some hight just chewing and keeping dried plant material in the mouth/under the tonge.

It took a lot of time and patience but deffo not placebo as the high was qualitatively identical to the smoked rush that I discovered latter, so maybe there´s something in the plant rendering active or more bioavailable the salvinorin
Click to expand...
I used to grow it, and I did chew individual leaves and they were somewhat uplifting, and they did calm indigestion - I also gave them to family members for stomach ache and it worked like that, chewed and swallowed.

sub-lingual (held under the tongue) does not separate the waxy crystalline solid salvinorin -a trichome content of the leaves at body temperature without a solvent like acetone or dmso, so your experience is largely imaginary, unless you have a very high body temperature or some other divine relationship.

buccal however when combined with vigorous chewing does knock off the trichome content and leads to swallowing and some oral absorption as well. As I said it takes 50 times the material to become psychedelic compared to smoking.
 
Again, I struggle to take seriously any claim that the use of a plant that was selectively bred as a drug for so many generations that it is now functionally sterile and only reproduces through asexual reproduction is basically a placebo.

Western scientists were long dubious in the extreme about its activity due to its lack of psychoactive alkaloids, insisting that it was probably just a ritually significant plant used after the harvesting to extinction of the original drug-containing species, ascribing all indigenous reports of its activity to wishful thinking.

The hubris is staggering. Maybe, just maybe the people who bred, tended, and used a plant for at least half a millennium might know what works. I think the interesting part of this isn't why their technique doesn't work, but why we haven't been able to figure out why it does.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top