Real hallucination?

[Krikman666]

Hi,

Have you ever got reality-like, vivid, OPEN-EYE hallucination (not visuals or distortions) out of a drug (not necessarily psychedelic)?
If yes, how intense they were, and what psychoactive were you on (and what dosage)?

Sorry for posting this in psychedelic if it's not the right subforum (i thought it's the most appropiate)

 

[morphine-dreams]

Yes, I completely tripped balls on ambien (10mg) a few years back. I was staring at my computer screen and started to melt into it and suddenly I was in it. I've also experienced extremely lifelike hallucinations on diphenhydramine but that was just delirium and it wasn't enjoyable at all. I'd happily trip on ambien again though.

 

[Clocktower]

A few puffs of Salvia divinorum did it for me. I lay down on a sandy beach, but wound up thinking I was a gunslinger in the desert in the old west and i'd just fallen off my horse. Very cinematic.

 

[Pontius Pilate]

Dissociatives routinely induce true hallucinations for me, however I might be hard-pressed to actually classify them as hallucinations, per se..

What I mean is that the hallucinations are actually highly integrated delusions.

Like, the news will be on TV, and they'll be talking about a new exhibit at our museum, but to me it all looks and sounds like the news anchors are actually speaking directly to me about highly personal topics.

Conspiracy theorists call them Archons, bahahah. But who knows, it's probably just my mind.

Anyway, yeah, the delusions and ideas of reference brought on by dissociatives certainly mold reality in truly mind-blowing ways. I never knew reality was so malleable.

 

[TheBlackPirate]

Yes, on vaporized DMT break through doses. I was completely separated from my normal reality. My perception in hyperspace is completely different than my perception of reality at base line.

 

[IamMe90]

Breakthrough DMT, K-hole, and salvia are pretty much the only substances that have given me full on hallucinations of things that simply weren't there. However, I haven't tried any deliriants such as high dose DPH or datura.

 

[Ismene]

If you're aware you're on a drug and tripping then it's not a real hallucination.

 

[morphine-dreams]

Yeah, I've had some very nice OEVs on high dose shrooms as well as full ego death but somehow I always knew that I was on a drug, when I could actually comprehend what a drug was lol. On deliriants, I felt relatively sober but it was extremely difficult to differentiate between what was/wasn't real, although I still knew I was on a drug. With ambien, I just forgot that I ever took a drug, so it was like dreaming awake. It felt very real though completely unrealistic, if that makes sense. Never tried DMT though and dissos don't seem to give me OEVs, just distortions.

 

[IamMe90]

If you're aware you're on a drug and tripping then it's not a real hallucination.

Actually, the American Psychiatric Association's Psychiatric Glossary describes hallucination simply as "a sensory perception in the absence
of an actual external stimulus." This encompasses a wide range of perceptory states.

What you're describing specifically is delirium, which is "an organically caused decline from a previously attained baseline level of cognitive function," which often involves symptoms of psychosis such as hallucination and delusion.

However, I know you're incapable of conceding anything, even when the point of contention involves objective definitions of terms and facts, so go ahead and reply with whatever blithering nonsense you undoubtedly will come up with.

 

[zirbeldude2]

The most intense hallucination was on dxm+dph...I went outside..I walked on the sidewalk of an empty road and it was snowing ( for real) and trinity in leathersuit and sunglasses walked by with a huge dog....and at the end of the street very huge machines were building themselves up....that was the point where i quickly walked back into the house.

Another time on dxm+dph i walked outside with a friend of mine and I was pissed because she constantly made herself invisible.
The next day she told me that we didnt meet.

 

[Ismene]

Actually, the American Psychiatric Association's Psychiatric Glossary describes hallucination simply as "a sensory perception in the absence
of an actual external stimulus." This encompasses a wide range of perceptory states.

I prefer Albert Hoffman's view on this rather than psychiatrists who have never taken psychedelics. Albert Hoffman said it isn't a real hallucination if you know you're tripping which is why he didn't like the term hallucinogenics. None of the psychedelic people liked the term hallucinogenics either. Why do you think they all preferred the term psychedelics rather than hallucinogenics?

I'm certainly not going to concede to you when you're completely wrong if that's what you're hoping. That's how you came to the position you're in now. Try and learn when you're wrong.

 

[IamMe90]

I prefer Albert Hoffman's view on this rather than psychiatrists who have never taken psychedelics. Albert Hoffman said it isn't a real hallucination if you know you're tripping which is why he didn't like the term hallucinogenics. None of the psychedelic people liked the term hallucinogenics either. Why do you think they all preferred the term psychedelics rather than hallucinogenics?

I'm certainly not going to concede to you when you're completely wrong if that's what you're hoping. That's how you came to the position you're in now. Try and learn when you're wrong.

Oh, yeah? Can you provide a citation regarding what Albert Hoffman said about hallucinations? Also, I don't like the term "hallucinogens" either, because psychedelics RARELY produce full-blown hallucinations, so I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with that.

 

[Ismene]

Can you explain yourself more clearly. You appear to have abandoned your ridiculous "the psychiatrist says.." argument in favour of something else but you arn't intelligible.

And drop the silly personal stuff - or take it to PM where it can be ignored.

 

[IamMe90]

I prefer Albert Hoffman's view on this rather than psychiatrists who have never taken psychedelics. Albert Hoffman said it isn't a real hallucination if you know you're tripping which is why he didn't like the term hallucinogenics. None of the psychedelic people liked the term hallucinogenics either. Why do you think they all preferred the term psychedelics rather than hallucinogenics?

I'm certainly not going to concede to you when you're completely wrong if that's what you're hoping. That's how you came to the position you're in now. Try and learn when you're wrong.

By the way, I've taken psychedelics hundreds of times, so I just wanted to let you know that your pathetic attempt to discredit the definition of the word "hallucination" is completely irrelevant. Having done psychedelic drugs does not qualify you to define a word. You literally have NO standing whatsoever to define a term that refers to a psychological phenomenon, nor does Albert Hoffman, as brilliant as he was.

 

[IamMe90]

Can you explain yourself more clearly. You appear to have abandoned your ridiculous "the psychiatrist says.." argument in favour of something else but you arn't intelligible.

And drop the silly personal stuff - or take it to PM where it can be ignored.

If you would like me to explain myself more clearly, explain what you don't understand.

 

[Ismene]

By the way, I've taken psychedelics hundreds of times, so I just wanted to let you know that your pathetic attempt to discredit the definition of the word "hallucination" is completely irrelevant. Having done psychedelic drugs does not qualify you to define a word. You literally have NO standing whatsoever to define a term that refers to a psychological phenomenon, nor does Albert Hoffman, as brilliant as he was.

Let me try and explain as simply as I can because I know you struggle. If you see LSD visuals walking down the street when you havn't taken a psychedelic that's something very different to seeing LSD visuals when you know you've taken LSD. I really can't explain it any simpler than that. Do you really call them both "hallucinations"?

Try and make a valid point soon - because it's very tempting to put you on ignore. I'll give you one more post

 

[IamMe90]

Let me try and explain as simply as I can because I know you struggle. If you see LSD visuals walking down the street when you havn't taken a psychedelic that's something very different to seeing LSD visuals when you know you've taken LSD. I really can't explain it any simpler than that. Do you really call them both "hallucinations"?

Try and make a valid point soon - because it's very tempting to put you on ignore. I'll give you one more post

OK. Let me try to explain this as simply as I can.

"LSD visuals," generally, are not hallucinations, in either case you just posited. "LSD visuals," typically, are visualizations from surrounding visual stimuli. This usually involves patterns that arise out of actual objects in one's visual field, or from one's surroundings.

Also, again, I have pointed out the fact that the distinction you're referring to - that is, seeing "LSD like visuals" while ON LSD, vs seeing "LSD like visuals" while NOT on a drug, generally refers to delirium.

"Hallucinations" are visual phenomena that are completely unrelated to one's actual perceived surroundings. If you've never experienced that without being totally unaware of your surroundings, then fine. Awesome! Plenty of people have. Do you think DMT entities are related in any way to one's visual field and/or surroundings?

 

[Ismene]

"Hallucinations" are visual phenomenon that are completely unrelated to one's actual perceived surroundings.

As I said in the first post, even if you know you've taken acid?

Do you think DMT entities are related in any way to one's visual field and/or surroundings?

They're related to the fact that you've taken DMT. You don't consider ingesting DMT a part of your brain's "surroundings"?

 

[IamMe90]

As I said in the first post, even if you know you've taken acid?

Yes. Hallucinations refer to a type of perceptory phenomenon. Perceiving something that has no basis in and/or connection to one's environment is a hallucination. This can happen while in a state of hypnagogia, from intense psychedelia, or any number of situations.

They're related to the fact that you've taken DMT. You don't consider ingesting DMT a part of your brain's "surroundings"?

Of course the hallucinations (in this case, entities) are related to the fact that I've taken DMT. That's the whole point of the topic at hand. The fact that I've taken DMT has nothing to do with my physical surroundings. It effects changes in my neurochemistry; that is literally subjective at the most basic level. Are you saying that hallucinations are impossible if one has ingested a drug? That's what you're implying by suggesting that ingesting DMT is part of my "brain's" surroundings. Not only does that commit you to the absurd conclusion that ingesting a drug negates the mere possibility of hallucinating, it also doesn't make sense; ingesting DMT (or any other entheogen) is clearly a subjective event that has nothing to do with one's surroundings, as they are outside of one's perception.

 

[Ismene]

Yes, I'm saying if I see things when I know I'm tripping that's not the same as seeing things sober. You don't think so?

I don't think you can compare psychedelic with "any number" of other situations. If you're seeing things while you're sober I'd suggest you get help.

What do you mean by "surroundings"? Your "surroundings" are only what your brain is interpreting. If your brain is bathed in DMT then it's going to interpret your surroundings differently.