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Ram Dass's passing..

Still pondering the meditation to get high notion. lol Yes I struggle with it all and how they connect.

I think as I get older the term enlightenment gets more and more simplified. It has been down to the Golden Rule at the core. Be kind you know? I mean there is knowledge, there are different levels of consciousness, there is much to learn or remember I should say about the workings of things physical and non physical. You will often here in NDE's that people had knowledge of everything. So even knowledge is finite. Yet infinite in it's own way.

https://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/archives_main.htm

So I am not sure exactly what enlightenment is beyond realizing we are all one and treat people with that knowledge.

The way I view those experiences is also in my "could be" folder. The similarities are striking. My small mind will say to me they all just copy each other stories. Or want attention. But then the deeper part of me (the enlightened part?) knows there is much more to the Universe than meets the eye. I mean, one good DMT even shut up Richard Alpert. ;) lol

I will shut up know, had some gabapentin first time in 10 days and am chatty. :)
 
Well, we all try to complete our cycle which means completing our minds by learning everything that is in it's way important to learn for us so we evolve when we have finished our learning process and we rejoin the creator, as known as god, and when we are complete after thousands of years we do not longer use our dimensional universe because we don't need it anymore, we join with all other people who have completed theirself and we experience bliss and joy. Existing as purely spirit only, no physical body anymore. We all have a soul, and that's who we truly are. So that's for finite for knowledge but I prefer calling it intelligence. : )
 
TripSitterNZ said:
seems you lack much knowledge about hinduism and instead confused the old political castle system and racist stereotypes for Hinduism.
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The untouchables are part of the Hindu religion tho arn't they? Obviously to anyone in their right mind the idea is appalling. Or are we doing the old "pick the nice bits and ignore the shit bits" so the religion sounds cool?

Who do you consider "enlightened"? The tibetan buddhists used to claim enlightenment while running a brutal slave state - gouging out their slaves eyes for pinching a fucking goat to feed themselves.

And why do you think "enlightenment" is the same feeling you get as when you take 1000mics of acid?
 
Aeon Psyche said:
But any human has the ability to develop their soul to such a high level in where we enjoy life to a higher extent than how any drugs could make us feel but it takes a few thousand years to develop your soul that much, through various reincarnations, which make this possible.
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Well I don't believe in reincarnation, or organised religion or God so what we're saying is "Is sitting there chanting a mantra for 6 hours a day for 50 years going to get you to the same place as taking 100mg of 4-aco-dmt".

The answer is no - nowhere near.

And I don't like this puritan/religious idea that's been put into everyone that "Somethings only worthwhile if you work your bollocks for decades for it". Bullshit. Drugs are better than working for 50 years and give you far far better results.
 
JackARoe said:
The mental states the Hindu's and Buddhist's mapped out do seem to coincide with the parts of the psychedelic states. That is about all I know. I try and practice all of it though to keep well rounded. :)
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If it gives you a bit of peace of mind that's fair enough - it just never did shit for me. Drugs worked. I remember buying a hotdog from a buddhist seller I said "make me one with everything" then I asked where my change was and he said "Change comes only from within".

The ram dass palming thing - it depends how easy you think it would be for his beloved guru to con him. Usually if someone worships you as a God on earth you can get away with a lot of conning. Would he have been able to con me? Maybe - I know when Paul Daniels used to say "Watch this really closely" I could never work out how he did it either. But I didn't believe he was a God - I believe he knew more sleight of hand than me. Other people who were at the camp said he used to palm then acid and then put it in his fire ash and give it to other disciples to take on their way home because the holymans ash was supposed to be sacred.
 
And regardless of how "enlightened" the guru was - taking 1200mics of acid for your first trip isn't just a mental effect - it would have an incredible physical effect on him too - at the very least his eyes would've fucking watered
:giggle:
 
Ismene2 said:
If it gives you a bit of peace of mind that's fair enough - it just never did shit for me. Drugs worked. I remember buying a hotdog from a buddhist seller I said "make me one with everything" then I asked where my change was and he said "Change comes only from within"
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I always say "change comes from within" when I get approached by someone on the street asking if I have any "spare change". However if the vibe is right then I will give what I can. I can be sucker but I guess I do get some peace from it.

The rant reminds me of a passage in The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test. Kesey was saying we can move beyond the drugs and do this while Owsley was arguing "bullshit, it's the drugs that do it" lol

You have to identify the con if there is one. Alpert at the time thought he was being conned when the guru asked for his land rover. He felt he traveled all the way to India for a con. But it turns out the guru did not want the land rover, he was just teasing because Alpert was uptight. Now after this he guru talked of the power of Love and it turns out he did not want money or things, so there really was no con to be identified. Turns out some people really live by the Golden Rule. :) (Except that Buddhist hot dog vendor that scammed your change lol)

It is up to us to indentify a con. The identification has to come from within, and not driven by paranoia. Looking back when I first started this job I have there was an employee that thought I was hired to take his own job. That was his paranoia, was not true and I had no intention of taking his job. Now we work together and are friends. But in the beginning he "thought" he identified a scam but was not to be. So identification has to come from an uncluttered mind space.

Terrance McKenna went to India and discribed some of the con that was around. So I do believe as any religion or anything really, there are con men. Now we see that with Shaman and traveling to South America for ayahuasca. But Ram Dass left something important from Be Here Now. He said you are your own guru, don't need something external. Same goes for shaman. No need to travel to South America to have someone guide you. People have been taking there own trips without gurus and shaman since LSD hit the streets. And even then some people con themselves. ;)

I love this conversation:
 
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Ismene2 said:
Well I don't believe in reincarnation, or organised religion or God so what we're saying is "Is sitting there chanting a mantra for 6 hours a day for 50 years going to get you to the same place as taking 100mg of 4-aco-dmt".

The answer is no - nowhere near.

And I don't like this puritan/religious idea that's been put into everyone that "Somethings only worthwhile if you work your bollocks for decades for it". Bullshit. Drugs are better than working for 50 years and give you far far better results.
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You may believe that you don't believe in reincarnation but atleast I understand it, which is so much more than believing anything. Religion is bullshit but god exists and that is a fact. I know because I can talk to god and so much more but I am an exception. But yeah, meditation won't give the same results as 4-aco-dmt, that's true.
 
Nice post jack - I'll check out the kool aid book.

I always found it amusing when Ram is going "I wasn't going to be conned this time.." I just thought "Oh BEHAVE you silly sausage" And because he doesn't take the car that means he isn't a conman? Please. Having people think you are God on earth is much more satisfying than a car.

Nothing against Ram - he'd been fired, was a rampant self-hating homosexual and was so desperate he was travelling halfway round the world willing to believe God lives in other blokes heads. That's known as an easy mark. Sure I can read him but that's always in the back of my mind.

Like when you read Alan Watts and you know he drank himself to death - that alters how you think about what he's saying. I always remember his son saying "Don't you want to live dad?" and Alan said "Yes son but it's not worth the effort". When you get the message hang up the phone? Exactly what message did you get Alan?
 
Aeon Psyche said:
You may believe that you don't believe in reincarnation but atleast I understand it, which is so much more than believing anything. Religion is bullshit but god exists and that is a fact. I know because I can talk to god and so much more but I am an exception. But yeah, meditation won't give the same results as 4-aco-dmt, that's true.
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I get a different message on 4aco - it says "Why the fuck would there be a god when your brain can do this?"

But whatever gets you through the night aeon, it just never helped my loneliness and pain.
 
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The concept of intelligent design is basicly proof of an intelligent creator. The brain for example is something so complex that no human on earth would ever be able to make it and saying that it is all random, doesn't make any sense.
 
Ismene2 said:
Why are you angry trips?
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Your very bigoted and a racist and sounds like your homophobic aswell. All you are doing is hating and making up wild statements and trying to push racial stereotypes about indians. Do you even know what untouchables are? they were crimminal murderes in the past. Untouchable is even practiced anymore and wasent even a hindu practice.
 
Trips, I'm the nicest sweetest guy you'll ever meet. I could say someone like yourself who beleives in the caste system is clearly an extreme racist but I wouldn't - and saying Ram Dass had problems dealing with his homosexuality isn't homophobic - it's a basic fact about his life - if you read more about him than just his own books you will learn why I said that.

And this isn't about "indians" it's about Hindus - big difference.

The caste system doesn't exist in India? Really? Who told you that? And incidentally - if the caste system has changed in the last few years it isn't down to the fucking Hindus - it's down to non-hindus telling them it isn't acceptable.

The untouchables are criminals and that's why they are untouchables? Where did you get this shit from? Did it say "And all black slaves were picking cotton because they were criminals" too?
 
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I've taken the story of the untouchables at face value, because it does logically fit in with hindu philosophy. But I haven't looked into it in any depth, I could be convinced either way.

The report of Pickard's humongous acid accident involved a phase in which there was at some point surprising clarity and stillness almost like sobriety.. I wouldn't hold it passed acid to be funny like that. Though I've tended to err on the side of skepticism with Richard Alpert's adventures as well. Some people just cross one's path at the wrong place at the wrong time, and seem be begging to be thrown in front of the bus with the force with which a teatotaller likes to bash Alan Watts. I can but won't refute the common ad hominem attack against his person, if people want excuses to leave the bottle then I'm in support of that.. drunks do get bothersome don't they..

But as many times as I have put down the Ram Dass act, it's an act with its own market, or "market", and there's a human heart at the core. Even though I stick with the criticism towards his philosophy, I am ashamed of the many times my own heart has turned cold at his suffering. One day we all will suffer likewise, and the same cold will meet us, deservedly or not.
 
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