Heroin Quitting Heroin with Buprenorphine fast taper

[Sparkoid]

Hi all

I've done a lot of reading about Bupe and using it to get off heroin but I just want to check in here with you all and see if anyone else has a similar experience / advice for what I'm about to do. There are so many stories on here but they all have significant differences to my own.

I am a relatively newcomer to Opiates and started dabbling with Opium about a year ago. Then about Xmas I spent a few weeks smoking Heroin #3 (UK based so is the most common form) but was on very small amounts and was trying to still to the 3 day rule. As per the usual story this escalated and about Easter I forgot all about the 3 day rule and used constantly for about 3 weeks. When I quit I experienced pretty mild withdrawal but it was enough to open my eyes to the reality of what I was doing. Of course after that I thought I'd learned my lesson....ha! Yeah right.

SO.... summer comes and since June I've been regularly chasing and am now up to about .1g maybe as much as .2g a day habit now so not a massive tolerance or duration (4 months daily using) but enough for a nice rattle. To complicate matters I've been using DHC's 30's and OC20's to keep my habit from my friends, family and work etc. Through use of tablets I can keep withdrawal symptoms under control for times when grabbing a quick smoke is impractical. In reality I've ended up smoking some at times of the day I can get away with it and then tablets when I can't so my dosage has been hard to keep track of. I'm going to spend a couple of days monitoring how much I am smoking without taking other opiates to just check I am on about .1g - 0.2g max a day.

If it matters I am quite unusual in so far as I rarely like getting to the stage when I am nodding, I tend to not want to get that far but sometimes I do anyway. I probably get the proper nod and histamine itch maybe once a week when I've saved up a 0.1g dose to smoke in a few hits in the evening.

One other detail is that I suspect that my #3 is pretty high grade so even though I'm smoking it which I know is a poor ROA compared to IV, I am adept at chasing it with little waste and it is good gear. Over the months I've had the opportunity of smoking all sorts of various #3 and every time I come back to my regular source it always makes me realise how strong it is.

So that's enough about my habit......

I have a stockpile of Buprenorphine sublingual tablets and have 2 x 8mg tabs, 4 x 2mg tabs and 8 x 0.5g tabs (splits of 2mg tabs). I could get more if needed without an issue.

I am going to NA but not as often as I should but I want to quit. If I could book a week off from all my responsibilities I'd probably just cold turkey but I need to remain relatively functional. I've planned a 2 week taper plan that starts on 4mg but I intend on spending the first day finding the right starting dose. I know to leave it at least 24 hours for the opiates to be out of my system and to be in full withdrawal and then I plan to start with 1 or 2mg sublingual doses and see how I feel. Then assuming all goes well I will taper in steady amounts all the way down to as low as 0.25g before I stop.

My estimation for needing 4mg of Bupe is based on this rough calculation.

100mg Heroin #3 approximately 50% pure and smoking bioavailability is 40% max so I'm getting roughly a 20mg dose of Diamorphine.

Since Bupe is 10 times more potent but bioavailability is about 40% sublingually then 4mg is roughly equivalent to 16mg of Diamorphine.

I'm just looking for it to keep the withdrawal at bay a bit and I've read that you should start low if you can.

Does all this sound like a reasonable plan?

 

[Sparkoid]

anyone?

 

[smackydowners]

that does indeed sound reasonable. remember though, the bupe will prolong things.

i dont think your withdrawals ill be too bad at all if you're only smoking a £10 bag a day. depending on your job or whatever, maybe you could even cold turkey and be functional (but miserable).

just start as low as you can with the bupe. try 1mg at a time when in full wd's.

good luck, and remember, you've got to just pay the piper, whether it takes a short intense rattle or a longer less intense one.

 

[Jabberwocky]

you are smoking .1 to .2 of HEROIN a day? so that is 1/10 of a G, right? just want to make sure we are using the same scale since I am in the US.

but if we are, you have a very minor problem and I am shocked that taking an OC 20 would not hit you harder than you hitting a .1 of dope.

sell the 8MG tabs and save your cash; split the 4MG tabs in half and 4ths and just do a 5 day run down:

1MG
.5MG
.25MG
.25MG
final day, wake up, see how you feel, if needed, do less than the .25 from day prior, but would be surprised if you even do.

if you want, and feel you have a bigger habit, start w/ 2MG rather than 1MG on day 1 and then play it from there. but if you want off of opiates and are smoking how you do, you should have no problem w/ a quick 5 day breakdown.

the reality of it all is you do not have a killer habit, and you have more than you need for recovery when it comes to bupe pills.

that 2MG of bupe might get you more rocked than smoking .1 of dope.

 

[spacejunk]

IME you can negate the vast majority of acute opiate withdrawals by doing a rapid bupe taper, so long as you dont have too much of a monstrous habit.
Start as low as you can possibly manage to keep the bad rattles at bay.
I would start as low as 1mg or less and only increase the dose if you start experiencing serious wd symptoms.
I found that bupe is extremely potent and that tiny amounts could be as effective as 4mg+ doses.
So long as you keep the taper to a limited time period (i wouldnt want to push it more than a month or two) i think you're doing it the right way
Comfort meds like clonidine and/or low (sub-dissociative) doses of DXM can be a godsend as you taper down/jump off as well.

All the best!

 

[Sparkoid]

you are smoking .1 to .2 of HEROIN a day? so that is 1/10 of a G, right? just want to make sure we are using the same scale since I am in the US.

but if we are, you have a very minor problem and I am shocked that taking an OC 20 would not hit you harder than you hitting a .1 of dope.

sell the 8MG tabs and save your cash; split the 4MG tabs in half and 4ths and just do a 5 day run down:

1MG
.5MG
.25MG
.25MG
final day, wake up, see how you feel, if needed, do less than the .25 from day prior, but would be surprised if you even do.

if you want, and feel you have a bigger habit, start w/ 2MG rather than 1MG on day 1 and then play it from there. but if you want off of opiates and are smoking how you do, you should have no problem w/ a quick 5 day breakdown.

the reality of it all is you do not have a killer habit, and you have more than you need for recovery when it comes to bupe pills.

that 2MG of bupe might get you more rocked than smoking .1 of dope.

Hey mate yes we are talking about 0.1g to 0.2g = 10th or 20th of a gram. You yanks and metric systems huh ;-)

I suspect our brown #3 we get over here is significantly stronger than what others may be used to. I know that black tar is nowhere near as strong and I had some #4 SEA a while back which I was told to go steady with and I found it pretty unremarkable (snorting).

Also don't forget that the OC20's were used whole and swallowed. I didn't crush, snort or modify them as I didn't want a rush, I wanted to be maintained for the day when with family etc.

Thanks for the reassurance about the size of my habit which I knew but it's good to hear from others with experience.

I will err on the side of caution with the bupe dose too. I wasn't sure if I could get away with really small doses but I'll start smaller.

I'm just spending the next couple of days making sure my gear is consistent, checking I know what my habit really is and then I'll be diving in.

Spacejunk - The last thing I want is a new habit so I'm looking at about a 10 day taper absolute tops. After everyone's advice I've chopped it down a bit and I may go as far as trimming it to 7 day taper.

 

[manboychef]

I have to agree with BBT and SpaceJunk. Take 1mg of bupe to start with. Lower doses seem to be way more effective than the monster doses doctors prescribe stateside.

One thing that will help also is a benzo. Try getting valium because of the long halflife. It will help combat the depression and anxiety that comes with paws after you finish your taper. Keep in mind that you are not going to be on valium forever and just get enough to get you through the first couple of weeks.

Good luck my friend

 

[smackydowners]

get out now while you still have a life.

 

[manboychef]

get out now while you still have a life.

This is the freaking truth right here.

 

[zebedee79]

I'm currently smoking roughly 1g a day of #3, I really wanna quit (and I will) but bupes not as helpful as I thought. I took 8mg on Sunday and it barely took the edge off. I went to NA and spoke to some people, it looks like I was expecting to much. Your gonna feel shitty whether you take bupe or not, it takes a few days for your body to adjust from H to bupe. With a relatively small tolerance you may as well cold turkey, you gotta wait at least 24 hours before taking the bupe anyway (trust me, precipitated withdrawal sucks). By that time, with low tolerance you'll only need a couple of extra days and you should be feeling alot better. When my tolerance was lower i was forced into withdrawal , and honestly by the 4th day
I felt ok, not perfect but I went to work. The mistake I made was scoring again as soon as I got a chance. It's obviously up to you, but why not try with will power and a few benzos first? You might surprise yourself at how well you do.

 

[manboychef]

Precipitated withdrawals are terrible. I couldn't cop one day and I was withdrawaling really bad so I shot a 2mg piece of subutex...boy that brought me to another level of hell. I ended up having to take 4mg xanax just to calm myself down and be comfortable enough to lay in bed.

If you can cold turkey, by all means do it, but make sure to check out the Thomas Method, as it is a pretty good guideline as to how to mitigate a lot of your withdrawals. Yes you will be sick, it is just paying the piper.

What will save you from going back to opiates is behavior change. People, places, and things. Change those, and develop a support network that you can lean on when you are at risk of relapse will vastly improve your chances of success.

 

[rhun]

With the size of your habit and the length of time you've been using, I strongly advise on a cold turkey detox with some benzos and possibly the Thomas Recipe. Buprenorphine is a great medication for treating addiction but it has the potential to make things so much worse for people who have lighter habits, I've seen this time and time again while in recovery. Could you plan your detox so it falls on two of your days off then call in sick for the third day? The worst of it should be gone by day 4 and if you're a little weak your work will understand because you had been sick the day before.

 

[Sparkoid]

With the size of your habit and the length of time you've been using, I strongly advise on a cold turkey detox with some benzos and possibly the Thomas Recipe. Buprenorphine is a great medication for treating addiction but it has the potential to make things so much worse for people who have lighter habits, I've seen this time and time again while in recovery. Could you plan your detox so it falls on two of your days off then call in sick for the third day? The worst of it should be gone by day 4 and if you're a little weak your work will understand because you had been sick the day before.

Taking time off for me is not an option, I have certain commitments and I do not want to delay any longer.

Could you expand on what problems Bupes can cause so I can make a proper decision please? I've done a lot of reading on them and the only risks I see are 1) Starting on too large a dose - I aim to use the bare minimum so I can function and sleep. 2) Tapers are too slow and you become addicted to buprenorphone instead - I intend on a 7 day max taper. Given all this advice I may go for 5 days.

Let me know what you've experienced.

 

[Sparkoid]

get out now while you still have a life.

That's the intention and why I'm going to NA. Even on the dose I'm on it's starting to rule my life and everything I do. Sneaking off to have a quick smoke, not going away so I'm not without my beloved H. Panic when I don't get a delivery. Feeling shit unless I have a smoke.

Fucking stuff is a cunt.

 

[spacejunk]

Taking time off for me is not an option, I have certain commitments and I do not want to delay any longer.

Could you expand on what problems Bupes can cause so I can make a proper decision please? I've done a lot of reading on them and the only risks I see are 1) Starting on too large a dose - I aim to use the bare minimum so I can function and sleep. 2) Tapers are too slow and you become addicted to buprenorphone instead - I intend on a 7 day max taper. Given all this advice I may go for 5 days.

Let me know what you've experienced.

Honestly, this approach has worked for me. I would personally recommend it. The lower the dose the better - even start on .5 or .25mg

 

[Sparkoid]

Honestly, this approach has worked for me. I would personally recommend it. The lower the dose the better - even start on .5 or .25mg

This is what I've been reading too. It seems that doctors are far too keen to prescribe huge doses where all you need is small doses to effectively grab the receptors that the morphine would usually (laymans terminology lol).

Anyway, there are lots of opinions on the best way which usually means there are best ways for everyone. I am going to have to go with the one that I feel most comfortable with. If after 24 hours I am not overly suffering I'll try for a cold turkey but if it is preventing me from functioning then I'm going to try low doses of Bupe to ease it off.

 

[rhun]

Taking time off for me is not an option, I have certain commitments and I do not want to delay any longer.

Could you expand on what problems Bupes can cause so I can make a proper decision please? I've done a lot of reading on them and the only risks I see are 1) Starting on too large a dose - I aim to use the bare minimum so I can function and sleep. 2) Tapers are too slow and you become addicted to buprenorphone instead - I intend on a 7 day max taper. Given all this advice I may go for 5 days.

Let me know what you've experienced.

The issues I've seen happen are people just prolonging thr withdrawal, replacing one addiction with another, and those with low tolerance getting high on the bupe. Also if you're kicking a milder habit, it's just not logical to take bupe after 24 hours. It's basically starting over when you're a third of the way done.

If you're intent on doing this, I'd do a rapid 5 day taper. I think it's more appropriate based on the size of your habit. I'd also use a very small amount, it's more potent than you think. Don't fall into the trap of redosing in an attempt to feel 100% or get high. You're just signing up for a much longer detox.

And don't get me wrong, I'm a big proponent of bupe. I've tried everything and I'm currently on maintenance (low dose). I just know so many people who wish they'd just gotten off everything when their habit was mild enough for it to be possible. Bupe and methadone are great but only when the situation calls for it.

 

[manboychef]

post.

I have seen this as well in recovery. Bupe is much harder to detox from than full agonist opiates. If I had known what bupe would do to my tolerance, and addiction, I would have just white knuckled the detox.

Have you checked out the thomas method? It is a really solid guideline to detoxing from opiates.

 

[Jabberwocky]

if I were you man I would just TRY to kick w/o a single thing; have you even TRIED this before? w/ the .1 habit I feel the suboxone may just prolong the high if anything; you are better off attempting cold turkey and if you truly feeling down and out its then you take the 1MG of bupe.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I have seen this as well in recovery. Bupe is much harder to detox from than full agonist opiates. If I had known what bupe would do to my tolerance, and addiction, I would have just white knuckled the detox.

Have you checked out the thomas method? It is a really solid guideline to detoxing from opiates.

what did it do to your tolerance? I take 12MG/day and anytime I would even touch dope I shoot 1/4 of what I once did; I was once shooting .4/.5 shots and nowadays I can shoot a .2 and get a slight buzz and then go form there. a gram last me a day rather than an hour nowadays. I havent used any dope in a bit but last time I did it was much less than my normal dosage.