Questions on recovery and relapses

[Cocodemus]

Hello!
I used to be addicted to buprenorphine for about ten years. Also have used quite a lot of stimulants. Right now I have been living at a rehabilitation center and am sober 95% of the time. I've been relapsing once a month and have used metylphenidate intravenously for 2-3 days per relapse. The Question I want to ask is this: How do you think these relatively small relapses affect my brain chemistry and recovery in general?
I'm at a point that I probably could be completely sober if I could get an apartment, start going to school and have a social life. The reason I allow myself these relapses is that I guess it doesn't affect my recovery that much and I want to relapse because living in this rehab center is very hard. Nothing to do but watch tv and eat three times a day.
If I had my own place and studying to do and maybe even friends I know I could be sober quite easily.
So. What do you guys think?

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Do you/are you experiencing PAWS?

 

[tamarinds]

All indulgences in our addiction actively only directly help those brain pathways and modes of thinking. There is no 95% sobriety. There is only total spiritual (not religious) and mental and physical spirituality.

Needing an apartment to help your sobriety is missing the point. It's about total stable sobriety wherever one is at. And it is possible. It's up to us individually to realize the depth of addiction in our own lives. Then its up to us to act on that reality and treat it as seriously as it must be - or its back to drinking and drugging.

Im drunk now after 66 months of sobriety because I stopped doing the required internal work and think I decided to use.

 

[Cocodemus]

Do you/are you experiencing PAWS?

To some extent of course, but a little unsure how recovered I am. Most of the time I feel quite miserable. Hard to enjoy anything though I've always enjoyed watching tv and movies. Not anymore, it's very hard to enjoy movies or shows in the past few months.
I'm not sure if the reason for this is that I'm still recovering or have I been alone and doing nothing for too long (1.5years in this same room watching television) and am in need of activity that I enjoy and relationships with people.
How much does an occasional 2-3 day relapse using metylphenidate affect recovery? My reasoning for my relapses is that I doubt that it affects too much if the relapse is not long and only once a month.

 

[Cocodemus]

All indulgences in our addiction actively only directly help those brain pathways and modes of thinking. There is no 95% sobriety. There is only total spiritual (not religious) and mental and physical spirituality.

Needing an apartment to help your sobriety is missing the point. It's about total stable sobriety wherever one is at. And it is possible. It's up to us individually to realize the depth of addiction in our own lives. Then its up to us to act on that reality and treat it as seriously as it must be - or its back to drinking and drugging.

Im drunk now after 66 months of sobriety because I stopped doing the required internal work and think I decided to use.

I agree in a sense that there is no 95% sobriety. And 100% sobriety is my goal. The reasoning why I feel that my own apartment would help is because then I would get the normal routines of life like cleaning, going to buy food and supplies. I would have more things to do. Now when I live at this rehab center I only watch tv and go to eat when it's dinnertime.
Also forgot to mention that the moving to my own apartment would be good also for the reason that I would move to a new city. At my current city I am in danger because some despicable people took advantage of my weaknesses and suddenly decided that I owe them a lot of money. They kept me prisoner for a month before I got away from them. And I think they haven't forgotten about me so I am scared to even go buy cigarettes at the store.
When I finally can move somewhere else and into my own apartment I can finally start living. The normal routines, making food, cleaning etc. Going to school and making new friends.
At my current situation I can't really do much of the things that give me purpose or happiness. Just stuck here in my room.
Thoughts?

 

[Cocodemus]

I agree in a sense that there is no 95% sobriety. And 100% sobriety is my goal. The reasoning why I feel that my own apartment would help is because then I would get the normal routines of life like cleaning, going to buy food and supplies. I would have more things to do. Now when I live at this rehab center I only watch tv and go to eat when it's dinnertime.
Also forgot to mention that the moving to my own apartment would be good also for the reason that I would move to a new city. At my current city I am in danger because some despicable people took advantage of my weaknesses and suddenly decided that I owe them a lot of money. They kept me prisoner for a month before I got away from them. And I think they haven't forgotten about me so I am scared to even go buy cigarettes at the store.
When I finally can move somewhere else and into my own apartment I can finally start living. The normal routines, making food, cleaning etc. Going to school and making new friends.
At my current situation I can't really do much of the things that give me purpose or happiness. Just stuck here in my room.
Thoughts?

All indulgences in our addiction actively only directly help those brain pathways and modes of thinking. There is no 95% sobriety. There is only total spiritual (not religious) and mental and physical spirituality.

Needing an apartment to help your sobriety is missing the point. It's about total stable sobriety wherever one is at. And it is possible. It's up to us individually to realize the depth of addiction in our own lives. Then its up to us to act on that reality and treat it as seriously as it must be - or its back to drinking and drugging.

Im drunk now after 66 months of sobriety because I stopped doing the required internal work and think I decided to use.

Also would like to add that you make a good point about being sober no matter the circumstances. And I think I am capable of that 29days of the month. But I allow myself a 2-3 day break because although I can stay sober it feels miserable. That I don't know if it's the lack of those little and big things in life that keeps us busy and give happiness or do I feel miserable because my brain chemistry is still in recovery.
Anyone have an answer to this: how and how much does these kinds of relapses affect recovery?

 

[Hex13]

If your doing that , I wouldn't think brain chemistry changes is your major concern.

 

[cdin]

also just a note -- the excipients in ritalin pills contain materials that settle in the lungs/cause damage. if you ARE going to IV these pills, please procure yourself some micron filters so that you don't cause silicosis in your lungs.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

To some extent of course, but a little unsure how recovered I am. Most of the time I feel quite miserable. Hard to enjoy anything though I've always enjoyed watching tv and movies. Not anymore, it's very hard to enjoy movies or shows in the past few months.
I'm not sure if the reason for this is that I'm still recovering or have I been alone and doing nothing for too long (1.5years in this same room watching television) and am in need of activity that I enjoy and relationships with people.
How much does an occasional 2-3 day relapse using metylphenidate affect recovery? My reasoning for my relapses is that I doubt that it affects too much if the relapse is not long and only once a month.

Our addictions never rest or get weaker. While you may be sober most of the time in a sober living environment, your addiction is outside doing pushups in the parking lot 24/7. It's a progressive disease, and does not go into remission.

Treating yourself to a ritalin binge once per month is only setting yourself up for a more serious relapse in the future. It's probably also extending your PAWS, but that's difficult to quantify.

 

[tamarinds]

I agree in a sense that there is no 95% sobriety. And 100% sobriety is my goal. The reasoning why I feel that my own apartment would help is because then I would get the normal routines of life like cleaning, going to buy food and supplies. I would have more things to do. Now when I live at this rehab center I only watch tv and go to eat when it's dinnertime.
Also forgot to mention that the moving to my own apartment would be good also for the reason that I would move to a new city. At my current city I am in danger because some despicable people took advantage of my weaknesses and suddenly decided that I owe them a lot of money. They kept me prisoner for a month before I got away from them. And I think they haven't forgotten about me so I am scared to even go buy cigarettes at the store.
When I finally can move somewhere else and into my own apartment I can finally start living. The normal routines, making food, cleaning etc. Going to school and making new friends.
At my current situation I can't really do much of the things that give me purpose or happiness. Just stuck here in my room.
Thoughts?

"why I feel that my own apartment would help is because then I would get the normal routines of life like cleaning, going to buy food and supplies. I would have more things to do. Now when I live at this rehab center I only watch tv and go to eat when it's dinnertime."

That feeling is surely a lie. A genuine lie from yourself that you yourself believe. Sobriety is all about being sober regardless of any external situation. I do understand needing to go to a new city. I know that sounds hypocritical from what I just said but if the new city has an incredible recovery community then it changes everything. Otherwise wherever we go that's were we are.

If I were you (and I am, still drunk as hell after a relapse of 66 months twelve days ago) I would only move if I moved to a sober living and then stayed there for at least 6 months.


I worked at a treatment center for over two years. The only people who stayed sober even 5 years stayed at least 6 months in a sober living and they worked the 12 steps. Of course, I also achieved that but then decided I was going to reap revenge for my government approved poisoned and killed dad or I was going to use pyrovalerone analogues again.

I wish you well. Real addiction is a unbelievably serious disease. I have the dozens of deaths at the rehabs I attended and worked, sponsees that died and my friends on Bluelight that have died over the last decade to prove it - besides my own horrific experience - to prove that.

That said, I hope the 3g a-PiHP is delivered in the mail today. Malt liquor just doesnt kill the spiritual death feeling like big foil hits of PV's does.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

My opinion is that you are kidding yourself if you think the using you are doing is only because of the place you are living.

I think these relapses will affect your recovery massively. I’m sure that there is lot you could be doing to move towards getting an apartment or studying or having a social life and that you are making a choice not to do those things. Might be the case that you need to be working up to those things by starting small with other things and it might not be easy but there’s always a pathway.

I think you’re using because you want to use and it’s giving you something that you could be obtaining elsewhere (even though that might be difficult). For me the issue would not be the effect it’s having on your brain it’s the fact that you are still choosing to use substances to quell inside problems when you could be putting positive structures in place to do that instead. Maybe you are someone who can have a little use up once a month and then go about the rest of your life fine but a decade on opiates says otherwise to me.

 

[Cocodemus]

If your doing that , I wouldn't think brain chemistry changes is your major concern.

Thank you. This is what I was after with my questions. But all you others have valid points too. I need to fill my life with relationships and activities that make my life good enough so I won't feel the need to use. Hopefully I can soon do my time in jail and then start fresh and build my life completely sober. Unfortunately until then I'm going to still use occasionally because due to my current circumstances I don't have relationships or activities to fill my days and support full sobriety.
Thank you all for your comments and support!

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

I feel like you’re looking at the problem the wrong way round.

Activities and relationships come as a product of recovery (whatever form that may take for you, but I think we will agree that IVing stimulants isn’t it), they are not the cause of it. They’re a symptom of living a healthier life, not something that will make you live one.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

If I was being less polite I would say that your posts read like you have a lot of denial going on.

I don’t say this to try and be mean but to give my honest opinion that I hope may be of use to you, I hope you understand

 

[Cocodemus]

Started to think about this again.. Can it be possible that even though i have used metylphenidate (20-40mg IV every 2 hours) only for a few days per month that it still causes negative effects on my brain chemistry? Lately in the past few months ive been depressed or just feeling blue and perhaps even unable to enjoy anything. Im wondering if this is the cause of the metylphenidate use or is it something else.
Can such use cause negative effects on the brain that dont recover even if you dont use for a month after initial use? Do these few day binges "wake up" my amphetamine addicted brain and reverse its recovery?

 

[Ds]

Can you shoot dope like a gentleman? If you can, my hat is off to you.

Post acute wds, doesn't go away for a number of years clean and sober from ALL mind altering drugs, (unless like antidepressants because i gota take that shit).

Logic and brain function does return after a period of abstinence. Not like a week later. If you were shot the fuck out anything like me, I probably wont get normal thinking back for some years from now, but who cares? That shits down the road, and I'm just living for just for today.
I have to tell myself just for today, damnit just for the next few moments,

Dude I can't do this shit alone, ive tried and it always fucking always gets worse, never better man.

This is where a program of action comes in. Where hey i wanna get high, well instead let me call a sober friend, or let me go to a meeting and share 'hey im ds and im fucking miserable, and glad to be here', I just told on my addiction.
Cunning baffling and powerful this shit is.

I truly hope and wish the best, and please keep us updated

 

[Cocodemus]

Haha dont know what you mean by like a gentleman. :D But guess i would say im good at it if thats what you mean. :D
Man fuck PAWS. I hate it. Good thing ive been off opiates for a year now and dont even think about them anymore. But guess im still in early recovery overall because i fuck with these stimulants. Id like to agree with you on the " I probably wont get normal thinking back for some years from now, but who cares? That shits down the road, and I'm just living for just for today." but my mood and motivation is almost nonexistent while sober so its hard to be satisfied with "right now".
I think im still relapsing cause i cant handle the depression and flegmatism that i have.
I do have some sober friends and also the other people living with me in this sober living place im at. But im just too socially anxious and unmotivated when sober that i tend to avoid other people as much as possible. Am i doing something wrong or do i just need to wait for a longer period of time for my mood and anxiety to get better?

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

I allow myself a 2-3 day break because although I can stay sober it feels miserable.

Nothing really to add to this conversation but I take "breaks" from being sober and to be honest I feel like a freaking loser for days afterward. Not so good on my mental state.
I get that we are susceptible to relapses but damn if it just doesnt bother me.
Wishing you well and hope this gets worked out in a sustainable fashion.
Peace

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

The occasional indulgence isn't gonna throw you off track in any major way UNLESS you are convinced that it will.
There's no neurobiological mechanism that will literally 'cause' you to go off on a never ending binge anytime you use. There IS a thing called 'response expectancy', which means you're extremely likely to behave in any given situation the way you think you'll behave.

Outside circumstances certainly can provide you with reasons to use or not to use. Being bored out of your skull makes it very easy to start fancying a little something. I've often for instance started drinking not because I had a particular wish for alcohol at the time, but just because I had no idea of what to do and getting pissed would pass a couple hours. Having a better life situation also greatly helped me reduce my heroin use.

I got a question for you: do you feel satisfied with your now-and-then use? Or do you feel deprived and like you want more, and start thinking about it more when you do do it, and have to actively stop yourself from doing more? If the former, there's no reason you can't just carry on that way indefinitely and be a moderate user. If the latter it's probably best to go abstinent, at least for a while, and see how you go.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

I take "breaks" from being sober and to be honest I feel like a freaking loser for days afterward. Not so good on myental state.

You shouldn't feel that way. I think you've internalised this idea that it's somehow a moral failing to take drugs, that it's inherently a 'bad' thing that makes you a bad person. But there's no society or time in human history that didn't have intoxicating substances. Even some non-human animals get deliberately intoxicated on various things. It's not exactly uncommon to enjoy altered states.

So now and again you fancy some, you indulge yourself, and then you stop again. You don't exactly seem to be ruining your life with it. It gives you pleasure but you're not letting it take over. (And presumably you're not stealing from relatives or hitting old ladies over the head to finance the stuff.) You should cut yourself some slack and allow yourself to have that pleasure without the guilt-trip.