Questions for Admin. and Mods

[Keymaker]

Hi all,
Obviously I am new to the site but not completely. I used to post here Approx. 10 years ago. I forgot the username / password so I just signed back up

My questions will come near the end of what I have to say here...

In posting replies to several threads I have seen perhaps 75% of the posters, posting absolutely incorrect replies, or opinions based on questionable qualifications / life experience to more often than not very serious questions. Some of these posters will go so far as to attempt to change a documented fact into "voodoo" or convince the OP's that their "experiences" are somehow more credible than either studies or research on any given topic.

Now as an indicator, I post on several chemistry, and neuroscience based forums. Both the members, and staff take misinformation Very seriously. Mistaken posts are corrected, and the person that posted the incorrect information is politely reminded to refrain from posting Unless they can verify the content of their reply, and maintain it's validity.

I do realize that this is not a chemistry or rocket surgery forum BUT it is represented as a Harm Reduction Forum. As I stated at Least 75% of the Info. posted is absolutely dangerous.
People posting about 60mg of Valium as a normal dose, and "Benzo's" on cereal before doing their morning 40mg of heroin, ect... are doling out advice that could potentially kill people at wholesale rates.

That said I do understand that there is a larger crowd here that creates these issues, and Mods are part time. Admin has to drive the bus, and wacked out posters can not be relied upon to "self police". I get all this...

My questions are, Don't you feel that this site has out grown it's goals? Do you feel this trend the site is following is in any way reducing harm on the level now required? Do you not see exactly what is happening here?

This is very concerning to me, and if you look thru the 15 - 18 or so threads I have posted in you will (hopefully) understand the reason I am posting this.
I have a kick ass, and don't give a shit who it is attitude, but I also have a heart that is perhaps Much larger than the Admin, and Mods. that are allowing all this potential harm to happen.

Like I said. I understand the logistics you are facing but don't you think a few steps backwards MIGHT allow you to re-evaluate what this site has become?

I won't begin to say I know better than you. I will say the misinformation here, Far outweighs the information that this site was intended to deliver, and honestly... it scares the crap out of me to see what is said to sincere posters with real problems.

I hope you understand my motives are sincere in posting this, just as my motives in joining (again) are. My first post is in the adoption thread so you can all see why I joined.

My love to all of you for your valiant efforts across the years, and just to suggest that perhaps the boat is too large or the crew is too small. Harm reduction!

 

[Keymaker]

I'm going to bump this because it has been on the site for a full day with no reply from Admin. or Mods. It is not important enough to warrant answering?

 

[Keymaker]

Three days, second bump.

Is this actually the way it is?

Shameful!

 

[alasdairm]

bluelight is run entirely by volunteers who have other - 'real' life - demands on their time. if having to wait a mere three days for a response is a problem for you, perhaps you'd consider donating, say, $60,000 to the bl mission so we can hire staff and respond to your questions more quickly?

Don't you feel that this site has out grown it's goals?

no. not at all.

Do you feel this trend the site is following is in any way reducing harm on the level now required?

do i feel the site helps reduce harm? yes.

Do you not see exactly what is happening here?

two people will look at the same thing and see a different thing.

bluelight content is provided and quality-assured by both staff and bluelighters. if you see a post or posts which you feel are problematic, you're encouraged to use the report feature to bring them to the attention of the forum staff.

you imply there are problem posts all over the site yet you've never used the report feature. i'd suggest that's a good place to start.

thanks for the feedback and regards

alasdair

 

[Keymaker]

Thank you for responding sir,

I don't really sense an honest reply here. The first reply is subjective, the second is not an answer to the complete question, and could have been answered in more depth or more concisely, and the third is exactly what my question was based on. (self policing by the members).

What I see is denial in the first degree.

I will leave it to the Admin here to review the few threads I posted in Re: drug use, and determine for yourselves where my opinion was created.
IF I reported every incorrect or dangerous reply from members it would leave approximately 60% of every thread barren.

What I see on this site is daily members here "chattibg" until something catches their eye to reply to.
These are people that have replaced their social lives with computer chat. They spew dangerous opinion, and rhetoric heard, and repeated such as a parrot will do.

Leaving this "group" to self police is very much akin to a Turkish or Mexican prison. The results are near the same. Unqualified parties running the populace.

There was/is a link to this site from the Erowids site, and I will be in touch with them regarding this association. It is MY opinion it is not something they should be mixed up in, (this site).

Dangerous advice, mis informed advice, speculation, ignorance, and opinion are doled out to innocent parties, and not a second thought is seemingly entertained by staff nor admin.

I don't wish to ramble, I assume I made my point(s). On a parting note(s), I do donate rather generously to several sites, foundations, and charitable organizations. The annual sum is quite near the 60K you suggested but I am sorry to inform you that donating to a site that I feel is a detriment to the well being of sincere posters seeking advice rubs me the wrong way.

Many years ago this was not the case, and although my IP address is now different, and my reason for being here has changed... I did at one time donate to your cause. Rather generously. If their were a refund policy in effect, I would file my claim.

With this all being said, I understand you plight here, and I might suggest an assay of your site. Perhaps shut it down for a month, and have a third party review what is happening here. It is now a bastion of mis information, and dangerous advice. The "tone of this forum has shifted from a safe harbor to a back street drug den. The majority of posters are now a social clique that do do not fit into society, and your attempt to help has created a situation where the true goal has been polluted in a democracy run by social outcasts.

I do not wish to offend or "rant" at or about Blue Light. My purpose in posting this is as an interested third party, and my observations, are solely that. Observations.

I pray you look at this, and consider my point of view. Information is, and has always been the creator.

I will not post on any of the other forums here but I will await a reply to this post. If (as a whole) the administration of Blue Light feels none of this is worth discussion or warrants a reply I will not lose any sleep over it as I have made my peace by stating what I feel had to be said.

Sincerely, Ken Mc.

 

[alasdairm]

why would i bother responding if you've already made up your mind that whatever i say is a lie? your comments are entirely subjective yet you discount my comments for the same reason.

thanks for the feedback.

alasdair

 

[Droppersneck]

Wow those are some rather broad criticisms of a free website which has served in many harm reduction purposes for myself and many others. Never dealing in this unique field one is not entitled to have that extensive of an opinion on it. Maybe if you were to start your own free harm reduction site and get 40+ people on board to cull through the endless crap posts and delete every thing that was not backed by science then and only then could you be entitled to champion those rigorous standards in a smug fashion.

 

[Roger&Me]

if you see misinformation, it's your responsibility to correct that misinformation with a well-reasoned argument that cites research and evidence whenever possible. it's then up to the reader to determine the soundness/validity of the information they read here.

you can only expect so much from bluelight, we are a site comprised of mostly laypeople, and all input is provided by people who are volunteering their time without compensation, and who are not held accountable in any way for providing incorrect information (whether intentionally or not). the point of bluelight is open discussion and free exchange of information, there's no way to guarantee that everything here is factually correct.

everybody should take everything here with a grain of salt, and independently verify everything they read before taking any action that could compromise their health or the health of others.

 

[neversickanymore]

Back in the day there was a outfit that traveled around with the circus. They would present a very large object and allow all that wanted to throw in a coin or two to bet on the weight of the object. Bets ranged all over the place.. from way overboard to you have to be kidding me underboard. The funny thing is when they averaged the guesses, they were within one or two pounds/kg of the real weight. These objects often weighed thousands of pounds and this happened over and over and over.

TRUE


This is the way I like to view a thread. A real and amazingly accurate answer comes to light.

If you come across a thread that you feel has inaccurate information, then present what you deem is the accurate information.

Don't forget today's "facts" often becomes tomorrow's blood letting.

 

[Keymaker]

Wow those are some rather broad criticisms of a free website which has served in many harm reduction purposes for myself and many others. Never dealing in this unique field one is not entitled to have that extensive of an opinion on it. Maybe if you were to start your own free harm reduction site and get 40+ people on board to cull through the endless crap posts and delete every thing that was not backed by science then and only then could you be entitled to champion those rigorous standards in a smug fashion.

And what exactly makes you assume or believe that I do not indeed own, and operate a forum?

 

[Keymaker]

if you see misinformation, it's your responsibility to correct that misinformation with a well-reasoned argument that cites research and evidence whenever possible. it's then up to the reader to determine the soundness/validity of the information they read here.

you can only expect so much from bluelight, we are a site comprised of mostly laypeople, and all input is provided by people who are volunteering their time without compensation, and who are not held accountable in any way for providing incorrect information (whether intentionally or not). the point of bluelight is open discussion and free exchange of information, there's no way to guarantee that everything here is factually correct.

everybody should take everything here with a grain of salt, and independently verify everything they read before taking any action that could compromise their health or the health of others.

Thank you for replying with a complete thought sir.

The basis of your reply is exactly the foundation of my reasoning.

It is continuous posting of mis-information, and then second guessing of posted facts that tends to confuse a person that in most likely hood is "unstable" at the moment.

Some how "credible" junkies tend to sabotage factual statements, and the flow of incorrect advice continues.

I have posted on 11 threads in sample targets from politics to neurochemistry, to finances, to physiology, to psychology.

The responses from your "core member" group here are Approx 75% the same. Rhetoric, and misinformation. There is often moderator input, and this is Approx 90% incorrect.

This is why I posted this. To perhaps draw the fact that the people volunteering to help run this SHOULD look up what they are spouting BEFORE they spout it. Wrong advice can kill, and I posted that to advice given by a Mod to a question on Nitros Oxide use.

If you do not know that Nitros Oxide IS deadly, do NOT post otherwise. Especially the 'core team".

 

[Droppersneck]

And what exactly makes you assume or believe that I do not indeed own, and operate a forum?

Yes but I said specifically harm reduction forum. That was my whole point.

 

[wezface]

Perhaps you should go spend your time on a "responsible" forum

 

[alasdairm]

cleaned up 10 disruptive, inflammatory posts. support is not the lounge.

alasdair

 

[Keymaker]

cleaned up 10 disruptive, inflammatory posts. support is not the lounge.

alasdair

That is EXACTLY my point sir. That sort of posting is all too common through the site. When legitimate posters spend their time cleaning up after people less than qualified to reply to specific topics, and respond with citations to factual answers, there is too much confusion / flaming, and outright nonsense for the original poster to attain a clear view of what is correct, and what is actually harmful rhetoric.

I hope you all understand I am not attempting to fan the fire, as it were. My motive is an attempt to address a runaway train situation that I see all to clearly. As you well know it is difficult to see the forest thru the trees but in this particular case... I believe you need to focus a bit more closely on the trees.Cull out the dead branches so that the forest will become a much healthier place.

You see, back in 2003 my then 17yo daughter was involved with a group that were into Heroin, PCP, and whatever else they could get their shitty little hands on.
Her "boyfriend" was in a sense the leader of this clique, and he introduced her to their lifestyle, along with this site.
There came a point where my daughter realized the boyfriend, and that life style were counter productive due in part to a member here. As I recall her user name was prettykitty, or funkykitty... Something "kitty". My baby girl was on the brink of suicide, and was unsure whom to trust but she found a "soul mate" here. That person is directly responsible for dragging my daughter out of the dark, and into the light.

After this part of her life had passed she told me about the entire ordeal, including your site, and her mentor. You might put the trail together at this point, and realize who I am. I publicly thanked everyone here, and made a fair sized donation to your cause. You may or may not get this but having the chance to see your grandchildren growing up is perhaps the most important gift one can be blessed with.

Now on to today... One of my friends has a child in a vry similar situation. The boy is a drug addict / thief / liar.
I suggested they look at Blue light, and see if they could glean some insights that might just help straighten out all of their lives. 72 hours later they thought I was out of my mind for suggesting such a "shit bucket of a web site" (their words).
They were immediately "flamed for interfering in their child's life. Told to "pack their loose shit attitudes into a neat package, and shove it back up their asses"... and so on.

I apologized for this site, and let the whole thing pass. Several weeks ago their son was arrested, and this site came up in conversation. I decided to see for myself.
I posted on several forums on assorted topics, and guess what I found? They were right.
My first post (adoption) went ignored until I jumped up, and down long enough to get a Mods attention. He/she apologized for not paying attention to that particular forum, cleaned up the thread, and issued an infraction.
My next interaction was with Mr Alasdarim. Several posts inflaming a simple use of a word in (extortion) in an out of context comment. Surprised? I was!

Then on to Heroin, Nitros Oxide, Opiods, and LSD. I will leave it to the Admin to read the threads. The responses from the posters is as you would expect. About 75% incorrect, 20% speculation, 5% agreeing with either or. What I find the MOST damaging is the responses from Mods... at best, 90% incorrect, and potentially life threatening information. Please take the time to review the threads.

In closing I only wish you the best here. You have a cup that is indeed overflowing, and IMHO a long over due introspection, review of policy / structure is desperately needed.

Harm can not be reduced if mis information is doled out as advice. Facts MUST be researched, and answers MUST be accurate. Especially where life or death hangs in the balance.

I wish you all the best.
Ken

 

[sekio]

At the top right corner of every post there is a Report Post icon:

Mods and administrative staff generally have better things to do than painstakingly read and fact check every single post in every single thread. We rely on users of the forum to report harmful content or stuff that otherwise breaks the rules. I can see you've never reported a post on this board since you signed up; maybe this is something you should start doing if you feel so strongly about what goes on here.

Also, it's important to realize that everything has varying levels of risk associated with it: even drinking water can be lethal. What you may consider an untenable risk is another person's idea of a good time.

sekio

 

[Erikmen]

At the top right corner of every post there is a Report Post icon:

Mods and administrative staff generally have better things to do than painstakingly read and fact check every single post in every single thread. We rely on users of the forum to report harmful content or stuff that otherwise breaks the rules. I can see you've never reported a post on this board since you signed up; maybe this is something you should start doing if you feel so strongly about what goes on here.

Also, it's important to realize that everything has varying levels of risk associated with it: even drinking water can be lethal. What you may consider an untenable risk is another person's idea of a good time.

sekio

Spot on! I like your style Sekio!

 

[alasdairm]

That is EXACTLY my point sir.

and it was dealt with, by bl staff, quickly.

That sort of posting is all too common through the site.

you say. you also have made it clear that you don't intend to lift a finger to help. indeed you coyly tell us that you have some $60k budget for this kind if thing but we're not getting any of it. your 'observations' are welcome but they read, to me, like a polite "fuck you".

then, when i do answer, you tell me i'm lying. you say you want to help but i'm not sure i really sense an honest reply here, if you know what i mean?

My next interaction was with Mr Alasdarim. Several posts inflaming a simple use of a word in (extortion) in an out of context comment. Surprised? I was!

still butthurt about that? words have meanings. if you didn't mean extortion you shouldn't have said extortion?

i know i'm wasting my time here as you don't believe what i write. but there are others reading. there's a saying that it's a lot easier to moan about the darkness than it is to change a light-bulb. trite? perhaps. but often spot on, i find.

feel free to continue moaning giving us your valuable observations here but please excuse me. i have light-bulbs to change.

alasdair

 

[Keymaker]

Mr. Sekio,
I understand your reply, and I appreciate it as factual.

It is difficult at best to report posts when the numbers are simply overwhelming. It becomes a battle of attrition at best, and a nuisance to staff at worst. I have found it best to cite facts where needed, and respond to irresponsible posts directly in context in the thread.
Perhaps some posters have the ability to understand the difference between correction, and flaming.

The last statement you made is the dividing line, and the crux of my posting this...

"Also, it's important to realize that everything has varying levels of risk associated with it: even drinking water can be lethal. What you may consider an untenable risk is another person's idea of a good time.

sekio"

This is overlooking the fact that this is not supposed to be a "bragging rights" site. I was under the impression that Blue Light was here to educate, To help people in rough situations find meaningful answers to questions they do not have ready access to, and not meant as a means of encouragement for Higher Doses, and Insane combinations of potentially interactive compounds.
Perhaps I am mistaken. Just some food for thought.

Mr. Erikmen shores up my point.


Mr alasdairm,
Perhaps we got off on the wrong foot.
There appears to be a bit of a jaded edge to all of our interactions with more than a fair share of sarcasm scattered throughout. A polite "fuck you" is not something I deal in. I call a spade a spade. I believe you trust me on this.

As I stated here I have donated in the past to your site. This was back when mis information was quickly removed, flaming or trolling was not tolerated, and the site had a real world value.
The "cliques that were here were posting helpful information. They goofed around, sure. But they interacted with each other, and prided themselves in jumping to HELP when a valid poster / question came up. Not stir shit for their buddies to laugh about.

I get it. Everybody wants to watch the movie, but someone has to drive the bus.

I will give everyone's responses some thought. Perhaps I can help here, perhaps not. At this moment I am unsure. I can only ask the the team here do the same. Take a moment before posting something to determine if it is helpful, accurate, or even necessary. Lead by example.

Many of the posters here rely on you to set the standard, and Mods or Admin. arguing silly points with posters is taken as a "free rein" for many of the members.

Perhaps I may suggest one thing.
If a response is in a topic that IS POTENTIALLY life threatening ie: drug intake, combos, withdrawal,interactions, the posted response should contain a citation or link to factual evidence verifying the validity of the reply OR the post be removed, and the poster infracted.
This one step alone may save many lives, and eliminate the issue that brought me to this conclusion re: the quality of the information posted on many threads here.

Please accept this as nothing more than a concerned human attempting to reach out, and help as many people as I can.
As I said, I will give this some thought, as I hope you all will too.

Thanks for taking the time to listen, and post your thoughts. I'm sure some good will come from this.
Respectfully to all.
Ken

 

[sekio]

If a response is in a topic that IS POTENTIALLY life threatening ie: drug intake, combos, withdrawal,interactions, the posted response should contain a citation or link to factual evidence verifying the validity of the reply OR the post be removed, and the poster infracted.

Again, this is called the Report Post button. Top right corner of every post. Looks like this:

sekio