Harm Reduction Questions about IV complications

[Mad Dash]

For the group that I volunteer for I have actually found a couple kids (15&16) with track marks on their arms. So I am trying to educate them about the dangers and warning signs if they chose to ignore them. I use to IV so most of it is pretty common knowledge for me, but as I have been doing my research I cam across something I had never heard before.

"If the injection site is red and has heat to it you may want to consult a medical professional"

I have seen this repeated among a few websites. What does it mean when people say heat. Like if you touch it, it would be hotter than the surrounding skin? Or you yourself would have a higher body temperature? Is this supposed to indicate infection?

I know most of the other signs, like tenderness, redness, swelling, color change (could someone be more specific about color change? Like bruises or redness?) but I have never heard the heat thing before. The next thing I wanted to ask is what happens once they seek medical treatment. The last thing I want is for them to be scared to seek medical treatment because they are worried as soon as they go in they will chop off their arm. I want them to know if they go in soon enough what is usually the procedure to make sure they don't lose their arm. Oral antibiotics? IV antibiotics? Antibiotics at all?

If anyone knows exactly what happens from the time they notice it until the time they get treated and go home healthy I would really appreciate it. I don't want them to just keep hiding it until they do lose an arm. I want them to ask for help way before that ever becomes an issue. So I want to describe what will happen when they go to the hospital.

Edit: I suspect they are shooting pills and re-using syringes, maybe even upwards of 10+ times. Not easy for young teens to get rigs. I imagine bruising can occur just from this alone, can bruises indicate anything else aside from blood leaking into skin?

 

[tricomb]

Have you seen this thread? In case you or others haven't, this may be of some use.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...d-Info-MEGATHREAD-amp-FAQ-III-Vs-I-Want-Blood

I'll have to revisit this thread but the quick answer I'd give now is to advise monitoring of body temperature, at any sign of elevated body temperature, seek immediate medical attention, time is a factor when you could be dealing with loss of limb, MRSA, systemic septicemia, endocarditis, etc. If in doubt, go to the hospital without hesitation. Whatever it is that is preventing an individual from seeking immediate care or causing temporary hesitation is absolutely nothing in comparison with the permanent damage that can occur.

It is NOT advised to take antibiotics that are not prescribed specifically for the strain they're designed to kill, taking the wrong dosage or the wrong antibiotics could cause the infection to worsen or become resistant to standard treatment, and it will weaken your immune system, all of these factors will drastically effect the end result of whether a person survives and gets lucky or if they suffer life long damage, so trying to deal with these issues on your own is really not doing anyone any favors.

 

[Mad Dash]

Yes and thank you that is where I got most of my info, and I see the localized heat, so I guess that means injection site. I am also guessing that means that an infection is starting? Kind of like how the human body has a fever?

 

[tricomb]

It's very possible, check for other signs of infection like persisting or worsening discoloration, allergic reactions, loss of circulation or CNS stimuli, any signs of abscess tend to result in noticeable swelling which requires immediate medical attention.

One thing that I look for is darkening of the veins or swelling or collapse not just at the injection site, but follow in both directions towards and away from the heart with the IV site in the center, look for any signs of necrosis or circulatory problems, gangrene in the fingers is a VERY bad sign.

 

[Mad Dash]

Okay then most of my questions are answered. How is this usually treated? I know abscess is lanced, but if bacteria gets into the arm I imagine antibiotics? I am trying to get a run down of what would happen when visiting the hospital so I can be like "hey so it really is not a big deal, you will go in, they will give you some ABs and then they will send you home."

I already explained what they do if it is an abscess, I showed them youtube videos of getting them lanced and they found it quite amusing/gross. Definitely turned some of them away from ever IVing LOL!

 

[tacodude]

Tricomb is definitely right. Infections are common (usually develops from miss shots becoming pus loaded abcess that becomes a breeding ground for infection. Usuallyba doctor will just give oral antibiotic based on the patients history and needs. IV antibiotics are in extreme cases when the infection is huge, spreads into muscle, bones, or anywhere that it becomes trapped and unable to release, or really more extreme cases. The only time I had iv antibiotics was a facial infection that left my left cheeck the size of a tennis ball shutting my eye even, which was five days of anti biotics. Recently this was a common problem happening every month, but only once out of five and six times I needed iv antibiotic even though it was the face each time.

So any infection go to the hospital even if you know you'll just leave with a script for oral anti biotics. You are better off wasting time going through the ER process than let an infection devolop as the longer it does the worse it gets as well as the more difficulty to recover even risking it spreading. Don't use any antibiotic a doctor does not give you not only to avoid developing a super drug resistrant strain (drug resistant staph anyone?), but there are also serrious allergy risks that may kill you. Finally you want a fresh supply of anti biotics as you need them at their full strength plus it might become toxic with age.

Anyways I really didn't need to add anything tricomb had it covered. Just wanted to share my infection and IV antibiotic experience even if not from IV complication. Localized heat does mean if you touch the area and it is warm especially compared to the surrounding area and rest of the body. This is because not only the bodys natural defense to heat itself and destroy an infection, but an infection is a heat generating life form growing in ones body and I believe that's the localized heat that you shoukd feel for. I am somewhat hypothesising and speculating a bit, but I believe I am quite on point. Please someone correct me if not.

Edit: Ha answered your new post responding to old one

 

[tricomb]

Yeah basically they go, draw blood to run a tox screen and to determine exactly what infection they are working against, and therefore they know which treatment regimen is the best to follow, different antibiotics work differently all depending on independent factors that can be variable from patient to patient based on what they get from the results of the blood analysis.

 

[Mad Dash]

Perfect both of you guys really helped me get a more clear picture in my head. This is going to work great. I don't see them again until friday but now I will be able to explain a little more about what actually happens in the body and at the hospital. I personally was lucky enough to never have to go to the hospital, so I never had the experience, thanks guys. It is always strange that drug use has become so bad I am working with children 12-18...

 

[tricomb]

show them the picture of what reused needles look like under the microscope. If that doesn't deter them from reusing needles.....

 

[tricomb]

 

[Mad Dash]

lol, ya that shit always gets me too. Thank you that should do some good hahaha. Welcome to the nightmare before Christmas boys! That is what the 6 day needle reminds me off. I think I am going to show them the pictures side by side. I always try to put a positive/fun spin on everything.

 

[manboychef]

i had phlebitis in my left arm once. It looked like I was turning into the hulk starting with my left arm. The veins were hard to the touch, and my arm was very tender. The doctor gave me a blood test, gave me a shot of antibiotics, and a prescription for antibiotics...cephalexin i believe. I was on my way in under an hour of walking into the emergency room.

 

[namnoc16]

Also fill the in on how they treat an abcess , it's not just lancing they have to physically squeeze that puss and shit out and it's very painful and very gross. You need to find some pictures of the puss getting squeezed out,might have an affect!

 

[tricomb]

Also fill the in on how they treat an abcess , it's not just lancing they have to physically squeeze that puss and shit out and it's very painful and very gross. You need to find some pictures of the puss getting squeezed out,might have an affect!

yeah but it might also scare people into waiting too long, if they went in as soon as they detected it chances are it wouldn't be nearly as painful of an ordeal, and I'm sure depending on the hospital they likely provide some form of analgesic.

 

[namnoc16]

Good point,again I stand corrected!

 

[tricomb]

i could be wrong about whether it impacts them when deciding how soon to seek medical attention, just a feeling i had.

 

[Mad Dash]

Also fill the in on how they treat an abcess , it's not just lancing they have to physically squeeze that puss and shit out and it's very painful and very gross. You need to find some pictures of the puss getting squeezed out,might have an affect!

Okay then most of my questions are answered. How is this usually treated? I know abscess is lanced, but if bacteria gets into the arm I imagine antibiotics? I am trying to get a run down of what would happen when visiting the hospital so I can be like "hey so it really is not a big deal, you will go in, they will give you some ABs and then they will send you home."

I already explained what they do if it is an abscess, I showed them youtube videos of getting them lanced and they found it quite amusing/gross. Definitely turned some of them away from ever IVing LOL!

But ya I made sure to tell them not to try to do this themselves they saw medical versus @ home. We all agreed the doctor version was much better.

This one is an addict who decided to pop his abscess at home:

NSFW:

This one is the medical setting:

NSFW:

I skipped around a little on the second video, but is is really good stuff for people here to watch.

 

[Mad Dash]

NSFW:

This was the biggest one I could find, and it shows the procedure quite well.

 

[namnoc16]

I'm sorry mad dash please accept my apologies. I'm from the MTV generation and tend to lack attention to detail and patience and tried to get the gist of the thread with out actually reading everything! I'm sorry for wasting your time with redundancy it's something I'm working on.

I don't need to see it,I've seen it in the first person!

 

[Mad Dash]

I'm sorry mad dash please accept my apologies. I'm from the MTV generation and tend to lack attention to detail and patience and tried to get the gist of the thread with out actually reading everything! I'm sorry for wasting your time with redundancy it's something I'm working on.

I don't need to see it,I've seen it in the first person!

lol don't worry about it, I do volunteer work with at risk youth teaching HR and trying to sway them from using drugs, all of them have already used something or another. Some with high frequency. One tried PKs for the first time when they were like 9 or 10 because of their "older" 13 y.o. brother. Didn't see them regularly until he was fourteen. Full blown heroin addict now at 16. Noticed track marks on his arms and another kids, so am trying to get info to try to help them change their minds or at least seek help if they get infections so that they don't lose arms.

But everybody needs to watch the first video I posted with the volume up a little at about 10-20 seconds... LOL