Question regarding Heroin withdrawal and methods of tapering.

[Sick-Boy]

Hello folks, I'm stopping by with a question regarding severe Heroin withdrawal, my current situations, what the likely outcome will be and any possible better methods for dealing with this situation and ones like it.

I'm prescribed Suboxone for Opiate maintenance, however I made the decision to still use. Initially I was going to simply use on occasion, and then switch back to Suboxone to nullify any possible withdrawal. This worked for a time, however eventually I began taking large binges, at one time I used 50 bags of the finest Dope around over the course of 9 days, afterward experiencing bad withdrawal despite the Suboxone, since then though I have successfully used smaller, 1 or 1 1/2 day doses of 10-14 bags with no problem, I still tend to take long binges. All seeming to be more difficult than the last as far as withdrawal and craving symptoms go.

Currently I am coming down from a 34 bag binge, and though I waited a while until withdrawal symptoms were more than present to take my Subs, it seemed despite all this, taking them sped up the withdrawal process, and though while it would seem it blocked certain aspects of it, I was still feeling horrible.
Eventually I was able to get two low doses of Dilaudids, which I took, despite the Subs still being in my system, this seemed to help a bit, but I'm guessing the Subs blocked a good portion of it out, that and considering they were of a low dose, it didn't help as much as it could have. I also managed to get a Fentanyl patch .25 MG's and placed that on around 36 hours past my last dose of Heroin, eventually I fell asleep. When I woke up I noticed a good portion of my withdrawal symptoms curbed, with the exception having some nausea, feeling very cold and the feeling as if I'm on the verge of a panic attack (something I was not previously experiencing.) My Ativan prescription is almost up, so I'm going to have to find some extra Benzo's in the mean time to help with any anxiety, as I really need them now. Fortunately tomorrow I'll be seeing my Doctor for more refills.

Basically I was wondering if by utilizing this patch, I could expect my withdrawal symptoms to be lessened when I come off it, as a tapering methods so to speak. As there have been times I experienced strong withdrawal and eventually just used lower doses of Heroin, eventually reducing the withdrawal significantly. Or if I can expect the same, or worsened effects once I come off this patch. (Which unfortunately will be right around the time I'm busy seeing my Doctor, and likewise, unfortunately have other plans which I must attend to afterword.)

My goal lately has been to lessen my usage so that I again can enjoy Heroin with a weekender attitude rather than go on long binges every few days, then use a little more every few days, when cravings become too strong.
As time progresses I worry that I may not be able to stick to my aforementioned desired routine...

My last dose of Heroin was quite high, keep in mind the Heroin I use is really some of the best stuff you can find, so each bag is easily as strong as 1 1/2 bags of typical street Heroin, if not twice as strong.
I was up to 2 and a 1/2 bags, which after being mixed into liquid and pulled back into my syringe, equaled about 1 1/2 unites purely of Heroin (this measurement acquired simply by gauging how much water was used, then looking at the additional unites added after the solution was completed and filled into my syringe.) So I'd say, all things considered, I stopped at a fairly high dose.

Anyway folks, thanks for reading, I'm certainly hoping things will look up and I'll be able to get a handle on this. Still at this rate I'm simply hoping I'll be able to ease off my withdrawal by the time the patch wears off.

 

[pasha]

AFAIK fentanyl withdrawals are slightly less severe with a shorter duration than heroin withdrawals. So I don't think it's such a bad idea that you've tapered down from your fairly large habit to (a patch?) of fentanyl. Continue this way until you start feeling normal on the fentanyl at which point you could probably jump from there, or switch to kratom or tramadol if any of these are available to you. Get your benzodiazepine prescription reinstated as you'll need those once you cease use of all opioids.

Also try visiting this thread:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/569872-The-Opioid-Withdrawal-Megathread-and-FAQ

 

[DooMMooD]

I've said this before: jumping back and fourth like that on suboxone not only decreases the high, but it in fact decrease the effectiveness of the suboxone itself. I forget the exact mechanisms at play, but take it from me that all that back and fourth decreases the effectiveness of suboxone, as well as your high.

In short if you wanna keep getting high? Stop taking suboxone. You only make your high that much less, your subuxone works that much less, and you spend that much more $. Seriously.

My goal lately has been to lessen my usage so that I again can enjoy Heroin with a weekender attitude rather than go on long binges every few days, then use a little more every few days, when cravings become too strong.
As time progresses I worry that I may not be able to stick to my aforementioned desired routine...

Also don't kid yourself: you will never be able to use heroin "just a little bit on the weekends". You've already proven that to yourself, so just get rid of that thought entirely and be completely honest. If you want to keep getting high, keep getting high; if you dont, you dont. But be realistic and realize there is no chance at "just a little bit on the weekends" from the posts I've read.

 

[Jabberwocky]

If you want to kick the heroin habit you have to admit to yourself that you can never use the substance again. Ever. You have to admit to yourself that you are an addict and that if you even try it once again you'll simply end up down the path of addiction again. It's insidious and devastating addiction, but in reality a drug free life is better than a doped up and destroyed one. If you can't stick to this and are insistent on being high - then i really suggest you try methadone maintenance if i'm brutally honest. There comes a point in some people where they can't accept the fact that they won't be able to get high again. From what you've written and said perhaps you should admit this to yourself too and get onto a methadone programme. It will keep getting you high and you don't have to worry about running off to get heroin. I really don't suggest doing this, but maybe its a realistic option.

By abusing subuxone as you do you're also reducing its efficiency and use as a drug to get off the dope with. As you continue to use bupe, it's antagonist effects will start to become negligible and will not help your withdrawal as you're building a huge tolerance to the drug itself but also to its positive effects it has in helping you detox. Suboxone was never intended to be used as a long-term therapy plan by the way. It was intended to be used to detox a patient in withdrawals quickly and easily, with many people even on extremely high dose habits using ONE 8mg tablet to come off their opiates in a week or so painlessly and without the extreme withdrawal they would suffer.

Again like I said, you've just chosen to continue abusing opiates and even the subs. At least abuse a full agonist so that perhaps if the day comes where you really feel like this is too much for you - you CAN move to subs and use them correctly and properly, detox and get off the gear for good which is what you really should be doing. In your state though I don't know if it would really be possible. You're also probably spending a hell of a lot more money on dope than usual as you're opiate receptors are being blocked by the subs.

 

[Sick-Boy]

Wow, well thank you very much for the information everyone, I suppose this gives me a lot to think about.
I must say I decided to simply go back in and get more Dope, with the reasoning of tapering being my motive, but as would seem the case, ended up using again, but still saving a bag and a half to taper with. I used my first bag 24 hours ago, half a bag 12 hours ago. This overall was enough to prevent any withdrawal, which brings me to my current position, where I'm unsure just what to expect. And if I should attempt to take a Sub once things get significantly uncomfortable or what...

With the Subs, I should clear up, I don't use them while using Dope, generally I stop my usage of Suboxone, and take 1/2 bag shots every 6 hours to "ween" off the Subs, then after being off of them for 24 hours I take my first full dose of Heroin. Because I am quite aware of Subs blocking ability.
However I was unaware over time it's ability would diminish due to still using Herion. This most certainly would explain why they've been less effective, and if anything even more problematic at times... I was basically looking at it as the perfect drug to allow for continued usage, with out having to worry about withdrawal. I suppose such high hopes have been proven more than false. Though for a time, it did seem to work that way, and I did stick to using around once a week.

Personally, if I could afford to keep using Heroin, I most certainly would, but unfortunately I don't have much money at all, and most of it does go to continued usage. I don't think I'm ready to quit, I really enjoy getting high too much and couldn't imagine my life with out it...
However with Methadon, I was unaware you would receive a high from it. From my understanding it would just saturate your receptors so much that they'd be beyond a state of being able to discern a high, basically over saturating them. But again, my knowledge of this particular drug is very minimal, if perhaps it does offer a high comparable to Heroin, I may consider switching, as it would be much less money...

Anyway, thanks for the information everyone, as I mentioned, this indeed gives me a lot to think about.

 

[Druidus]

Bro, I feel you. Opiate addiction/withdrawal is horrible. I was addicted to high doses (no joke, my doses would kill even my friends with tolerance) of IV hydromorphone for almost four years. I shot up roughly four times a day for those 1425 days. I was deep, and while I can't say for sure if I was your level of deep (I mean, it's subjective, isn't it?), I'm pretty sure my experiences should transfer to you.

You might not believe what I have to say, but trust me, it's completely true; and it saved my life:

Poppy seed tea. Yeah, yeah, I hear the scoffing laughter now. But honestly, PST. The stuff is incredibly cheap - ridiculous, really. And while potency varies from batch to batch (much like heroin), you can generally get good stuff if you find a good supplier (and from one supplier is usually pretty homogenous in potency). You can make it as potent or impotent as you'd like, using the "taste it, measure the bitterness with your tongue, dose appropriately" method. Don't disregard this stuff, man, it really did save my life.

I'd buy tens of kilos of poppy seeds, and then I worked out a good daily dosage of morphine (the main active in PST) and aimed for that dose with up to three dosings of my tea. In weeks, I was off hydromorphone. And while I have still injected since getting off, I've never gotten like I was again. The one time it almost happened, I stopped myself and just dosed PST for a few days.

Simply one tea dose in the morning, one early afternoon, and one after supper. I didn't get the IV *rush*, but I was able to NOD off of the tea nonetheless. And as the days passed by, I kept lowering my PST doses, until I could stop with no ill-effect.

Just try it, see what it can do. Done right, with the right seeds, it can be a wonder-drug.

I wouldn't have been able to handle rehab, or detox, without it (never dealt with my addiction through doctors). Instead, I just handled my problems by myself. I've never taken methadone (except to get high) or subuxone. PST was more than good enough. Also cheap, legal, available, easy to prepare, less habitual than IVing, and terribly pleasant (I used to IV dozens of milligrams of hydromorphone, my highest dose being hundreds, I know what opiate "pleasantness" is like).

People have OD'd on it; it's quite real. It DOES have morphine. It will work, if you give it an honest shot.

I've used it for this purpose successfully, and I can give you tips to make it easier/better, if you want. Just PM me.

This saved my life, and I hope it can save yours too.

 

[Psychonauticunt]

AFAIK fentanyl withdrawals are slightly less severe with a shorter duration than heroin withdrawals. So I don't think it's such a bad idea that you've tapered down from your fairly large habit to (a patch?) of fentanyl. Continue this way until you start feeling normal on the fentanyl at which point you could probably jump from there, or switch to kratom or tramadol if any of these are available to you. Get your benzodiazepine prescription reinstated as you'll need those once you cease use of all opioids.

I think that with roughly equivalent dosing, fentanyl withdrawals would be more severe, but with a shorter duration - someone correct me, but AFAIK the two key variables are potency of agonism and duration of effect. Stronger agonists cause more serious symptoms, and a short half-life produces a short but intense withdrawal. Fentanyl is stronger and shorter-acting than smack, so I'd say it should produce quite anal WD symptoms, but they may be quite short-lived.

However, going from a maintenance fent patch is likely to produce much less steep withdrawals, as it's a kind of taper in itself, and the dose is likely to be much less than the previous H doses.

People have OD'd on it; it's quite real. It DOES have morphine. It will work, if you give it an honest shot.

I've used it for this purpose successfully, and I can give you tips to make it easier/better, if you want. Just PM me.

This saved my life, and I hope it can save yours too.

He's right. Poppy pod tea can be a very potent drug; it lasts most of the day, has morphine as its main active ingredient, and can be quite hard to distinguish from a heavy morphine nod if done right. That's why I never drink large amounts of tea I've just brewed without waiting for effects - the effects last long so you've plenty of time to re-dose, and I've noticed before that about a half cup of one tea was enough for a whole day, while another time I had to drink 2 or so to achieve decent effects.

Be careful. It's no joke. One of the best opiate drugs in general if you ask me - a long, dreamy state.

 

[Sick-Boy]

This saved my life, and I hope it can save yours too.

Thank you very much for the information, and your kind words.
I'm looking into this method now, and hope that it will be able to offer me relief from the withdrawal I've no doubt been simply keeping at bay, and perhaps give me an alternative to Heroin usage. Not to say that I'd quit completely, but at least that I'd have another method to get high which may very well satisfy the intense cravings I generally have.

Be careful. It's no joke. One of the best opiate drugs in general if you ask me - a long, dreamy state.

This is also further encouragement, I'll have to find a reliable place to buy them from, not sure if it's best to do so Online or if you can find reputable stores IRL that sell them.


Eh, despite the downsides of Heroin, I'm still compelled to state that I truly do believe we all have the right to do to our own bodies that which we desire, and therefore drugs, regardless of what they are, shouldn't be restricted as they are.
I've been on a number of Anti-Psychotics all with little or no positive effect, experiencing more of their negative effects than anything else.
Yet drugs such as Pain Killers, and of course Heroin have provided me with the most relief of any other drug. I do feel these substances have therapeutic potential. The fact that the majority of people I know who have been diagnosed with Mental Disorders, all of whom have received little help from their prescription medicine, all uniformly turn to harder drugs to seek relief, should speak volumes as the what seems to actually help.
Just give the people what they want.

 

[hefe1313]

I can attest to this. I was addicted to OC for 7 years up to 210MG/day. My experience was just like yours, Druidus. I could write my experience but it's exactly like yours. except i only dose once in the am, and maybe in the afternoon. it lasts a long time for sure

Bro, I feel you. Opiate addiction/withdrawal is horrible. I was addicted to high doses (no joke, my doses would kill even my friends with tolerance) of IV hydromorphone for almost four years. I shot up roughly four times a day for those 1425 days. I was deep, and while I can't say for sure if I was your level of deep (I mean, it's subjective, isn't it?), I'm pretty sure my experiences should transfer to you.

You might not believe what I have to say, but trust me, it's completely true; and it saved my life:

Poppy seed tea. Yeah, yeah, I hear the scoffing laughter now. But honestly, PST. The stuff is incredibly cheap - ridiculous, really. And while potency varies from batch to batch (much like heroin), you can generally get good stuff if you find a good supplier (and from one supplier is usually pretty homogenous in potency). You can make it as potent or impotent as you'd like, using the "taste it, measure the bitterness with your tongue, dose appropriately" method. Don't disregard this stuff, man, it really did save my life.

I'd buy tens of kilos of poppy seeds, and then I worked out a good daily dosage of morphine (the main active in PST) and aimed for that dose with up to three dosings of my tea. In weeks, I was off hydromorphone. And while I have still injected since getting off, I've never gotten like I was again. The one time it almost happened, I stopped myself and just dosed PST for a few days.

Simply one tea dose in the morning, one early afternoon, and one after supper. I didn't get the IV *rush*, but I was able to NOD off of the tea nonetheless. And as the days passed by, I kept lowering my PST doses, until I could stop with no ill-effect.

Just try it, see what it can do. Done right, with the right seeds, it can be a wonder-drug.

I wouldn't have been able to handle rehab, or detox, without it (never dealt with my addiction through doctors). Instead, I just handled my problems by myself. I've never taken methadone (except to get high) or subuxone. PST was more than good enough. Also cheap, legal, available, easy to prepare, less habitual than IVing, and terribly pleasant (I used to IV dozens of milligrams of hydromorphone, my highest dose being hundreds, I know what opiate "pleasantness" is like).

People have OD'd on it; it's quite real. It DOES have morphine. It will work, if you give it an honest shot.

I've used it for this purpose successfully, and I can give you tips to make it easier/better, if you want. Just PM me.

This saved my life, and I hope it can save yours too.

 

[Druidus]

Sick-Boy:

I PMed you this, but you can buy good poppy seeds IRL at bulk stores and ethnic food stores. Since it is a legal food commodity, I hope I'm not breaking sourcing rules.

 

[bronson]

^ Thats alright as it's fairly vague. What we don't allow is posting specific places to buy thing irregardless of its legal status.

To the OP, I hope to hear that you make some progress towards recovery. Be sure to keep us updated on how you are doing.

 

[laCster]

dude the fent will just make your WD worse, it is a very potent full -agons. honestly, you are prolonging the inevitable! no matter what opiate you take to curb your WD, you will have to deal with WD eventually, even with buprenorphine or methadone.

if i were you, i would do a bupre or methadone taper so that WD isnt as severe as going cold turkey from a 34 bag binge.

benzos will help, but be careful not to become addicted to them while trying to get off opiates, because then you fucked yourself even more as benzo WD potentially can be more dangerous than opiate WD depending on dosages, body-type, ect ect...

i'd recommend staying on lorazepam for NO longer than 2-3 weeks. i'd also look into some type of antihistamine for sleep such as diphenhydramine (benedryl) or hydroxyzine (script only in USA). gabapentin and/or lyrica are amazing aswel and dramatically reduce psychological and physical WD - def look into these too. also, as your doc for some clonidine which will help immensely with lowering your BP as when your in WD< your blood pressure sky rockets. hm what else... oh yah if i were you id start exercising even if you feel like dieing. exercise will help you start to produce your own endorphins which will dramatically increase your mood and energy. investigate your diet too, spicy food that contain capsaicin are awesome as it acts as a natural anti inflammatory and helps produce endorphins. immodium also is good for diarehha and helps with some physical WD

bupre or methadone taper ix also a possibility, but both of those needs scripts.


here are some awsome threads, definitely check them out....

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/32895-*MERGED*-Guide-to-narcotic-withdrawal

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/569872-The-Opioid-Withdrawal-Megathread-and-FAQ

 

[Druidus]

Sick-Boy, you don't have any room for PMs left, so here are a few quotes from my past posts that may be beneficial for you:

Just some quotes that pertain to PST that I thought you could use:


<snip - I know these are just quotes but nothing on getting drugs across boarders please.>

You should be able to find poppy seeds in any bulk food store. They're a common food ingredient. It's the kind of seed that you find on bagels or that poppy seed cakes/muffins are made of.

If you check multiple stores, the best seeds are the ones with the most brownish and white stuff in them and general dust-like debris. Often this is left over latex or at least bits of pods.

I'm very confident about the dosages, at least for me, and I'm a 160-ish pound male who was VERY addicted to hydromorphone.

Actually, one of those bottles tends to be good only for 7-9 hours. You are supposed to dose twice a day, one or two bottles each time. If you want, you can do it in three doses, and just reduce the dose accordingly. That gives a more even level throughout the day. Obviously stick to one bottle if you can, but if it's too hard and the symptoms are bad, go for two. Or, if you want, one and a half.

Remember to only use it for 3-4 days [this is for minor cessation of opiates, use more/longer in your situation, Sick-Boy]. If you continued for a week or so, you'd get morphine withdrawals. And it's not a bad idea to reduce the dose each day on the last two. If you follow these rules and don't end up taking a bunch of it in order to get high (unless you are using it to get high as a replacement for your opiate of choice), then you shouldn't get addicted. There's no rush, it's subtle, it takes away the negative symptoms, and you've got to take a lot (for most people) to have a really euphoric noddy type high. Really we're just aiming to fill in some of your opiate receptors while still letting your body know it's got to start producing its own again. It's best to still feel a little uneasy, don't remove ALL the symptoms. But get yourself some sleep, eat, drink, have fun not shitting and puking in the bathroom. These are the benefits of the tea during withdrawal.

If, by some chance, you DO get addicted to the tea, well, at least it's very cheap. <snip - no prices> a kilo, I think, and you need like 300-400 grams for a low withdrawal maintenance dose. If you find you've got some minor withdrawal symptoms after tea cessation, keep taking the tea a little longer, but reduce it by 15-25% every week or so each dose.

Even if you do have some withdrawal from the tea, it'll be much easier than the intensity of oxy withdrawal, due to the dosing levels.


Try looking up bulk food stores in the phone book and asking if they have poppy seeds. If, by some unlucky chance, you buy seed from a bulk store that ACTUALLY did what they were supposed to and washed the seeds extremely well, you'll need a lot more seeds or it won't work at all, so buy a kilo only first, for a test dose. If it works, buy more. Otherwise, look for a different store. In my location, it's pretty easy, because none of them wash well. I doubt they do there either.

Let me know how the tea goes if you try it. One tip: I don't do this because it tends to make me sick, but if you want to increase the morphine yield from each wash, put in some lemon juice. As much as you can while still keeping the tea palatable. Morphine citrate forms, and is much easier dissolved in water.

BTW, for BEST results, take some antacids before taking the tea, about 40 mins before. Also, the standard potentiators apply.

I would use 60-100mg of loperamide per day to avoid physical withdrawal and attain some mental ease. It's not as good as poppy seed tea, or as cheap. A couple kilograms go a long way, used right. I'd dose the strongest one in the morning, right after waking, and within thirty minutes I'd be starting to feel better. Within hours, I'd be normal feeling, and could forget the withdrawal. I'd dose a lighter moderated dose somewhere just after, about, or before morphine's half-life, and that'd usually be good enough to sleep with if I didn't stay up too late. A final third strong dose was occasionally needed; likely also due to differences in quantity of morphine in different samples. If the third dose was strong enough, I wouldn't even wake up in withdrawal.

Seriously, I've quit a few times, and honestly, poppy seed tea saved my life. I couldn't have done it without. It was so much the same as being high on the hydromorphone, but without the need to procure illicit substances and IV them, and lacking the terrifyingly addictive rush. Once I found that dose, I just lowered it over weeks.

Btw, quitting IV opiates, or any route of admin., really, is incredibly easier if you use the OTC resources available to one in need. Loperamide, or Immodium, actually helps a lot when taken in massive doses. People say it doesn't cross the BBB well enough to be psychoactive. That's bullshit, IMO and IME. Butr we're talking fifty plus milligrams. I needed over 100 per dose. That's over fifty pills, and it's so expensive it might as well be from the street. Less helpful, I find, is the codeine you can get OTC in many countries, though only 8mg tablets here, combined with 15mg of caffeine each and a ton of acetaminophen to CWE out. The caffeine stays, mostly, so it kind of really sucks.

The best thing, barring methadone or suboxone, which many cannot get on (or off, I've heard), is poppy seeds. I'll stand by them to the grave. They don't get completely washed of opium latex, especially in bulk stores; meaning you can have morphine/opiate tea. Just find a store with cheap bulk poppy seeds, test it by using 300mg to measure potency, if any. I could use a kilogram to a kilo and a half and actually catch a nod. Used two to three times a day at the dose you need to kill the cravings and the withdrawal symptoms, it's a Godsend. And you can slowly reduce the dose every two or three days, more if you need it. Until you feel if not the best, at least good, without opiates in your system.

I'm amazed they're legal, lol. So ridiculously cheap compared to street prices. <snip - no prices> gives you a good day, two if you stretch it. You can't inject it, and as long as you don't dose it too frequently or too heavily, it's relatively safe. People have died from it, though, so be careful. Test the potency of every new batch, it varies quite a lot, not all seeds have the same latex coating left. You could OD on as little as a kilo if it's too potent. If anyone asks why you buy so many poppy seeds, tell them you absolutely love poppy seed cakes and other baked goods. It's still legal to have whatever amount, until the minute you start making the tea, which would be considered a preparation of morphine.

To make the tea, simply put your dose of seeds in a container, fill to a little above the seeds with WARM water, and then shake/let sit for thirty to forty mins. Strain the seeds from the liquid, and squeeze them inside the container to push out the water they soak up. Rewash the seeds, same drill, but don't combine the washes. Taste the first wash, and it shouldn't be unpleasant, but rather, earthy, tealike, and, here's what to taste for: bitter! You can generally gauge the strength of a particular wash by tasting for bitterness alone. Test that, taste the second wash. Still bitter, but very noticeably weaker. Still diminishing returns don't crop up too much till the third wash, which I don't bother with.

Dose every six to ten hours, depending on need, and stabilize without the horrors of withdrawal. Literally, folks, you can KILL the symptoms completely; I cannot praise this stuff enough. To anyone trying to quit, please, just give seeds a try. You won't regret it. It literally saved my life, I wouldn't have got on the bus to leave street opiates behind without it; I just took enough seeds for two weeks and left.

It sounds too good to be true, and it almost should be, lol, but I swear, this is legitimate. Poppy seeds, at least from bulk stores (IME), contain more than enough morphine for opiate tapering, and even if you don't want to quit, you can get a damn good high from it, even a nod. And it's long lasting, so you don't need to redoes that much at all. In fact, I could get by on one strong dose a day, but I took a second one around supper time in order to mitigate symptoms upon waking the next day.

Seed tea, FTW.

 

[RedRum OG]

Moral of the story: wait longer to take Suboxone.

Also for myself personally I had access to unbelievably pure and cheap Mexican tar heroin for over a year, popped my cherry by shooting a 50 cent piece and almost went under. so no dose of sublingual Suboxone stopped withdrawals the first weeks. So I IV'd the Suboxone and it helped a lot, more powerful yet shorter lasting. Then once my body had adjusted went back to taking as prescribed under tongue

Of course since this is BL I have to say "don't shoot pills". Just whatever you do, do not heat films/pills, ever, and preferably use a micron filter.

Otherwise just don't binge so hard

 

[paranoid android]

AFAIK fentanyl withdrawals are slightly less severe with a shorter duration than heroin withdrawals. So I don't think it's such a bad idea that you've tapered down from your fairly large habit to (a patch?) of fentanyl. Continue this way until you start feeling normal on the fentanyl at which point you could probably jump from there, or switch to kratom or tramadol if any of these are available to you. Get your benzodiazepine prescription reinstated as you'll need those once you cease use of all opioids.

Also try visiting this thread:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/569872-The-Opioid-Withdrawal-Megathread-and-FAQ

Even at equivalent dosing fentanyl withdrawal will usually be more severe then withdrawal from say Heroin, Dilaudid or morphine because of it's really high potency and strong binding affinity to the Mu opioid receptor. So the withdrawal from fentanyl will be more intense but of shorter duration. I have never taken heroin but i have been addicted physically and psychologically to oxycodone, morphine, dilaudid and fentanyl. I found fentanyl withdrawals to be even more intense on the begging then dilaudid withdrawals and that is saying alot. Thankfully i only had to do 2 days without it and then i switched to morphine. I remember getting hit with awful stomach cramps, diarrhea, nausea, vomiting and shaking. This was with large doses of clonazepam as well as temazepam. Lopermide seemed not to help the diarrhea from fentanyl withdrawal as much as it helps when your withdrawing from other opioids despite lopermide being chemically related to fentanyl.

I have been prescribed both the 25UG patches and the 50UG patches. Fentanyl always raised my tolerance by quite abit as well which is common given how potent it is. Personally Ive always found morphine to be a great drug for tapering especially if you can get a suspended release version and just take it orally. It's much easier to taper on a suspended release opiate then a instant release one. I have tried many different taper methods but i found tapering with morphine suspended release pills to be the least painful way to quit. You can drop down by however much you feel comfortable doing and it's easy to adjust the doses. I have tried to taper with IV morphine but since it lasts shorter when given IV then when given orally or IM it makes it harder as it's hard to get down to 1 injection a day. Tapering with suspended release morphine means you have the drug working for 12 hours so taking 1 a day isn't so bad. If you can get a XR version of morphine that would make it easier still as it would last 24 hours.

But i have no intention of stopping opiates as i need them for chronic pain. They also do help stop me from using too loads of other drugs like alcohol, coke (rocked up or IVed) or high doses of benzos with alcohol. If you want to kick for good you need to commit to it. I would suggest trying buprenorphine before going on methadone.

 

[Eyntropy]

Yes, after 12+ yrs of doing this shit, I have learned one thing, no matter what you do, coming off ANY opiate is going to suck, REALLY suck. There are many things you can do to help and make it suck a lot less. As far as with subs, only about 10% of the opiate you are using is getting in, and thats if its high amounts of good shit. As far as taking subs after using, the subs just dominate all receptors then throw you into wd. So bouncing back and forth between the two is a delicate dance , that takes a lot of practice to do, and many times is not even worth the effort. Before I went full on subs I used to just use subs when I couldnt get shit. When I first started subs I did the same thing, eventually figured out I was just wasting money, so now I just stick with subs and benzos.

 

[britsmallz]

I'm having a similar prob. I have like 7sub stips and do about 1.5g a day and I tried to wait 24hrs before taking sub but I got way to sick throwing up couldn't breathe I made it like 13hrs then I took a quarter of a sub then another and another and another one was gone within two hrs I noticed it was putting me threw even worse w/D I couldn't take it and gave in and bought a bag I feel so helpless and like I'm never gonna be able to kick this! Id wonna try again but scared any ideas?

I know that's exactly how my little bro died :-(

 

[bronson]

^ You need to more or less be in full withdrawal from the heroin before starting sub maintenance, otherwise you'll get what is called precipitated withdrawals, i.e. the reason you started feeling even worse.

So if you're going to go this route, just make sure you stay off the regular opiates long enough, THEN start taking the subs. These aren't drugs I know a ton about using in regards to getting clean, as I've never personally been here, but bL is full of great posters, and I'm sure someone else will chime in soon with some other helpful advice.

 

[britsmallz]

Thank u! I hope to get more feed back to! So how long we thinking 24hrs? Would nyquil help untill its time to take the subs?

 

[bronson]

Thank u! I hope to get more feed back to! So how long we thinking 24hrs? Would nyquil help untill its time to take the subs?

If a 24 hour wait has you feeling dope sick then that should be long enough. You just really want to make sure you're in full withdrawal. I would try just a straight antihistamine like diphenhydramine in the mean time. A syrup has a lot of bunk in it that is really just not needed.