psychedelics and dissociatives for depression. please help

[TruffulaTree]

yeah DXM is a "synthetic opioid"

lucky you for getting a reverse tolerance haha

 

[exists]

^It's not entirely good... my tolerance seems high until I reach a certain threshold. If I exceed that threshold, I'm in for quite a ride. The last time it happened (on 240 mg), the experience was waay too intense. And I don't always get visuals when I'm that high, either (could be due to the lack of cannabis on some occasions).

 

[custard]

You're welcome. Note of importance: in Foreigner's thread about treating depression with ketamine, he specifically mentioned keeping dosages _very low_ in order to avoid any recreational effects. Read that thread really well, the man did his research and pointed out all the obvious pitfalls. I'm not saying that his way is the only way, but he did his utmost to describe the pros and cons of his ketamine regime. Do shoot him a PM, I'm sure he's more than happy to assist you with good advice.

You seriously have a line to a psych called Dr. Downer? Excellent.

Good luck on your journey and please keep posting back, your story might help and inspire others in turn.

I've read and re-read his thread a couple of times now. Perhaps this emphasis on low doses is as important as he stresses. It is very hard to gage my usage without a scale, and via snorting, and additionally resisting the temptation to get high. Kinda overdid it last night, and ended up feeling depressed and like my brain had been tossed into a frying pan at the end of the night. Not so healing.. As I've run out now, I think I may just wait for this magical doc and see what he has to offer. Don't know what kind of regime he has in mind but I think I could use the guidance.

And yep I will continue to post updates if that's helpful for others out there

 

[custard]

Truffula Tree + St Ingwe: I'll keep you posted as to how the mushroom experience goes. I'm a little skeptical of the afterglow lasting longer than a day though, as it never lasted longer than that when I took acid. Depression returned pretty quick, brief stint of enlightenment jumped out the window. But I'm open to it of course. Ayahuasca is the only psychedelic I've taken that gave me an intense turnaround and was able to retain what I learned for at least a week or two after.

my3rdeye: I gotta say I'm skeptical of going it alone in regards to ayahuasca. The experience was incredibly intense, and I've heard specifically that it's unwise to ingest without a shaman present. My personal experience was quite joyous, but it's possible to have very frightening and difficult experiences on the drug, and shamans need to be nearby to help take care of you if you need it. My dad happened to be paralyzed in helplessness while shitting himself when he took it... wouldn't want that to happen to me alone. Would be cool if I found a ceremony nearby though..

Btw, is aMT a relative of ayahuasca? If there are psychedelics out there that are similar in nature but are safer to administer solo and perhaps easier to acquire, I'm definitely open to that.

 

[custard]

if it's a motivation issue, I can tell you methylphenidates work wonders

Tell me more?

 

[custard]

I've been using DXM as an antidepressant for months, and it works. But be warned: DXM's SSRI (SRI?) properties mean that getting off the drug can result in hellish withdrawals upon cessation (brain zaps, nausea, etc.). If you go this route, just make sure that you have enough for tapering, if it looks like your stash is about to run out!

Yes, DXM did work amazingly for me, for the 2-3 months that I took it on a regular basis. During that time though, my tolerance skyrocketed, and is still way up there. Tried it a few days ago (300mg), and the high lasted only 1-2 hours, with absolutely no afterglow. (Pretty sure the ketamine isn't helping my tolerance anyway.) So consider yourself very lucky. I've actually found DXM to be more effective in many ways as an antidepressant for me than ketamine. Even at low doses, the buzz felt more spiritual and real, and I felt more like myself, whereas k tends to have more of a fake and cartoony feel to me. Generally speaking, I feel more connected on DXM and more disconnected on k. Anyone else experienced these differences? Maybe it has to do with DXM having SRI properties and k DRI? (if that is indeed correct..)

 

[TruffulaTree]

Tell me more?

ADHD pills, basically. I was prescribed them for ADHD a couple years back and took them all through middle school and my first year of high school. now I'm in my second year of high school and I've kicked them for the most part because I feel more "me" when I'm not on them (plus I just dont want to throw stimulants at my brain EVERY SINGLE DAY, I gotta think that isnt healthy), but I take them occasionally, when I want to work on music or have a lot of homework, and they are a MIRACLE. You dont feel coked up or anything at all, but just slightly positive and super motivated to work. message me if you want to talk more man

also, yeah for me the shroom afterglow only lasts the day after. I always have a great day after, but I'm totally normal by the next evening. Still, you can do them a lot (like, every weekend), and perhaps the actual trips can reveal you to yourself and help with some of the depression issues you're struggling with - I know they did for me If not, at least they're really fun. shroom trips dont have to enlightening - sometimes I just take them and watch cartoons and stare at my hands and eat yogurt, that's always great fun too! hahaha

 

[custard]

You know i also suffer from a couple mental illnesses, Generalized anxiedy disorder / Panic Disorder And Manic Depression and when i was younger i would take psychedelics CONSTANTLY for this reason and recreationally but it ALWAYS left me feeling no more of my depression or anxiedy as long as the trip went well. Just be careful because i think for Over doing it on my part actually made my mental illness especially anxiedy panic disorders worse, but As someone said, Try Psilocybin Mushrooms and DMT if you can get your hands on it, it's very very Potent and not like any psyches i've taken but it's very very spiritual and makes you feel amazing afterwards and Alleviates my disorders for a little while after words as in a couple days + and since you've already taken ORAL DMT in your Aya-Trip, maybe it smoked will be fun and HELP YOU. Sadly DXM i had pure powdered DXM and was taking WAY WAY too much maybe thats why it never worked for me? it was actual negative for me, but Psilocibin Mushrooms helped me out alot and also LSA ( alot like LSD but LEGAL to order the Seeds and NATURAL Id Go with Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds give em a read then possible try). have you tried the ketamine? Because if you didn't know DXM is known as Ketamines Retarded Little brother ( no offence to anyone with any kind of those disorders....) Get back to me and feel free to Private Message me and i can let you know what has worked or not worked for me...

Hope i can help you out because i know that pain man,
Best of luck to you,
-B

Ha, that was a bit tricky to decipher but I think i got the gist. To be clear, were you saying that mushrooms alone are not like any psychedelics you've taken, or did you mean DMT? Or both together? Yeah DMT may certainly be helpful for me, but taken alone I've heard the high lasts only 5-15 minutes. A few hours on ayahuasca was mind-boggling enough, I would think such a short time of intensity would not be enough to learn and draw from the experience?

Pure DXM? Yes I would say that's probably why it didn't work. I extracted it a couple of weeks ago and drank it in one go as directed, and it certainly didn't work out. Was much too intense, got roboitch, and puked it all up about an hour later. I find taking the gelcaps a much easier way to monitor how much you are taking. Taking it gradually is very important, (mentally and physically) - I find 5 caps every 10 minutes (+ a gravol) to be a good method.

Yes I am going to try mushrooms in the future, I'll let you know how it goes.

And yes if you read my OP I've tried both ketamine and DXM many times. I find both effective as antidepressants, but haven't had much luck taking low doses of ketamine which seems to be the most effective way to benefit. DXM was always more effective for me though.. feels more real and connected whereas ketamine has more of a dissociative cartoony flavour. Perhaps due to the SRI properties of DXM?

thanks for your support tho. things are pretty rough lately.

 

[thikal]

thikal: I already do meditate daily, and have visited weekend retreats in the past. Maybe when I have the time and funds I will go on a longer retreat. 'Tis a good idea.

(Just to say that vipassana meditation is free. Just by donations.

 

[ANewKindOfArmy]

DMT is in AYA

So if you could get DMT, I that kinda gives you an answer there. When it comes to psychedlic experiences though, try not to use em for your depression as i said i did this as a Teen for a long time and I'm sure you've heard this alot, Abusing drugs isn't going to help, even though i don't consider psychedelics to be drugs, i consider them mind expanders, they open your mind up and Yes if it goes great like it does unless you start tripping bad, you will feel good for day(S) depending on which psychedelic or Psychedelics/Disasociatives but Trippin' all the time Can and will actually make the condition worse because Psychedelic trips atleast for me seem to make me the insight i want and leave me feeling great for days after. Just all the time doesn't sound like it would leave you mentally sound, i know after my binge while it was going on i felt better with my mental disorders but did notice after i stopped the negatives which is why i say use them here or there man you honestly may get ALOT more out of it that way. I know you're taking about taking low dose said psyche almost to the point of NOT feeling any trip, just with alot of psyches unless you got a MG or Microgram Scale its going to be very hard to dose a low enough dose not to get a Psychedelic Experience...Just my point of view.. feel free to get back at me with what you think, i may be wrong and i am id rather be corrected but from a Harm Reduction stand point, you don't need a bad negative Anxiedy or Panic disorder because you over did it like i did you know?

Best of luck,
-B

 

[ANewKindOfArmy]

Now i am not Recommending this because of straight harm reduction because just because it worked for this guy doesnt mean it will for you but this is a Completely True story and it may give you an idea and think of a safe way to do so... here we go,

Now, a very good friend of mine has serious serious mental issues ( manic depression And Schizophrenia) He also has a drinking problem sadly... Now he acquired an ounce of Psilocybin Mushrooms according to him very good potent strain( i say it this way because i didn't know the grower or get to see them so im not sure of the strain) anyway, one night him and his girlfriend were hanging out at home and drinking a little, he got the Shrooms for a couple people then this night after finishing DMT- The Spirit Molecule ( great book by the way) wanted to trip he had Cannabis, and The ounce of Shrooms. He as i said has a bit of a drinking problem, so he said oh fuck it and just started eating them one after another first all the biggest cap and stem connected mushrooms and then to straight caps, then to whatever was in there.

He got pretty much through the whole bag, now he was tripping VERY VERY VERY hard. He was sitting on the roof of his appartment with his headphones on listening to music and he was jammin to a couple bands and he said for some reason alice in chains funny since he was listening to Pink Floyd UmmaGumma but anyway had him start freaking completely(To Alice in Chains Not UmmaGumma) then, he felt physically sick and was like oh no it was the amount ( PANIC, one because of the huge dose he was actually worried about being poisioned 2. Trippin hard like that made him spazz) he was freaking out for about an hour then finally calmed down when he went and laid on his roof of his apartment staring into the sky with Tool - Salival on ( the album).

So he calmed down, he didn't say if he vomited or not but i wouldn't doubt it. Now, he said even as bad as that hour or so was he doesnt regret once second of the trip and isnt angry with himself for doing it because ever since it's been about 2 weeks now HE's STILL mentally stable, Happy, His Depressions been gone and he's slowed down his drinking dramaticly and i've saw all three first hand ever since this experience. So maybe a nice high dose of Mushies or Another Psychedelic may have you able to trip ONCE, and be good like he has for atleast 2 weeks so far. I expected him to say Horrible idea since he was actually tripping so hard he wasnt right for a couple days but its been weeks and his Depressions been lifted, his anxieties have been lifted and hes HAPPY. I believe him going through that horrible trip for that amount of time had him thinking so much he thought out and made well or became ok with himself finally. It's almost like night and day difference. Now for Harm Reduction i dont recommend going out and taking a completely ridiculous dose of P.Cubensis Mushrooms but seeing the effect it's had on him its almost unbelievable. So maybe you need to take a heavy dose of the right psyche and may help yourself out for way more than a couple days. Yes the kid is still on head meds, but before he wasn't happy, depressed and i dont know how to say it without sounding mean but he'd have crazy dillusions of people doing this or that against him that make no sense at all ( his Schizophrenia) And now he's more normal happy and said He wouldn't change the trip at all, he doenst regret it at all, he's hoping this last as long as possible because he's very motivated and happy and have cut down his drinking to where he's at the stopping point almost, amazing and all from A BAD BAD BAD trip for so long then good again.

Just Something to think about not the dosage or whatever what you do or take is on you but this first hand im mind blown he didnt completely loose it and it ended up positively lost due to his mental problems and the amount but no, its so hard to believe but it's the truth, I hope this may help you on your quest. Because i dont mean to rub it in but i am so happy to see my friend finally positive.

Best of luck, and be safe in whatever decision you do make,

- B

 

[dezz]

Hello.

Bit of backstory: After suffering from depression for years, I feel that I have tried everything. Three months in the desert for intensive wilderness therapy, followed by living in a transition program, good exercise and sleeping habits, yoga, mediation, individual and group therapy, antidepressants (SSRIs, NDRIs), a healthy social network - the works. Many of these things have helped me a lot and I feel I've come a long way in the last couple of years.

BUT... I still feel that I am suffering from chronic depression, and generally speaking I feel pretty unmotivated to do much of anything, and feel there is a huge wall between me and myself, me and the rest of the world. You know what depression feels like.

I've experimented for recreational and spiritual purposes with various psychedelic drugs over the past few years as well. I've found that (as many studies are currently proving) NMDA receptor antagonists, AKA ketamine and DXM, have worked wonders as antidepressants for me. I've used classic psychedelics less (done acid a few times), but it has also served as a powerful antidepressant for me. Immediately after use of these drugs I feel myself, I feel free, playful, the world becomes meaningful again, I have drive, I feel connected, etc. Unfortunately this feeling only stays with me for 1-2 days after using, and then depression returns.

Something I tried recently (about 1.5 months ago) was ayahuasca, at a shamanic ceremony. It was an incredible experience and my depression was lifted, and I feel I learned a lot about myself. But gradually this feeling began to fade, and a few weeks after the ceremony I felt I was back at square one. If I had access to this powerful medicine I would definitely try it again, but this was a once-in-a-lifetime experience I think, (and was also in the Netherlands - I don't know any shamans around here (Toronto, Canada.))

Anyway to cut to the chase: I'm really just looking for some help here. I feel at a loss. I have already built a very high tolerance to DXM, and my stomach also seems much less able to keep it down than it used to. I acquired some ketamine recently, but it's very expensive, and I am also building a tolerance to it. Believe the two drugs are cross-tolerant as well. In the summer I took DXM in low doses about 3x a week for a couple of months and it was wonderful. My depression was gone, and for those couple of months life changed - I made new friends, grew closer to the ones I had, did more art... basically I felt truly alive for the first time in years. I'm trying to resume taking ketamine/DXM about 3x a week again, so I can feel alive again, but due to lack of funds and ever-increasing tolerance, I'm worried this system won't last long. I had to quit DXM cold turkey in the summer after those 2-3 months of frequent use because it pretty much stopped working completely.

I don't know what to do. I so desperately just want to feel alive and feel like myself again, but the only drugs that work for me as antidepressants are illegal and expensive and/or build tolerance quickly. I wish the modern world wasn't so backwards and it wasn't so difficult to access powerful healers like ayahuasca or ketamine, and so incredibly easy to access SSRIs and benzos and other drugs that tend to do more harm than good (in my personal experience). Anyway.. if anyone has any suggestions I would really appreciate it. Ways to reduce tolerance, prolong effects, alternate NMDA antagonists or psychedelics that may help, whatever you can offer. Much appreciated.

custard

We are called human beings, not human doings. You see we have 2 distinctive modes of existence. The one that consists of DOING and the one that consists of BEING. Drugs, especially psychedelics do the work for you in that regard, they push you into the BEING mode and that's when depression get's lifted.

The big difference in your sober experience and your intoxicated experience is that in one YOU ARE NOT ACTIVELY TRYING TO BE HAPPY. This constant striving for something to be different, for something to change is basically reinforcing your believe that life is not good enough. Fighting your depression is keeping you depressed. This is why meditation practice is called practice, the being mode has to grow and in order to grow and to be able to have access to that state easily without the use of drugs it has to be done daily for a certain amount of time (about 30 minutes.)

Think of something you want to change or something you have been holding on to for a long time, see if letting go, letting it be provides more relieve then clinging. If you start to feel sad, or depressed, don't start to think your way out of it or distract yourself by turning on the TV, but rather ANALYZE it, observe it, ask yourself: What is this? What am I actually feeling? At the end of the day you can turn up the radio to block out the noise coming out of your engine, but a few miles down the road your car will stop working nonetheless. Using drugs to combat depression is not a long term solution, trying to get rid of depression has gotten you no where, so learn to be with it, realize depression lies to you. A depressed mind is a liar, so stop thinking, don't take your thoughts so seriously and don't look at them as absolute truths and get up and do something. Waiting for something to make you happy won't work.

 

[TruffulaTree]

^yes, but at the same time, drugs (psychedelics especially) can open you up and give you insights into yourself in a way that is impossible to achieve any other way. And those insights can be invaluable to fighting depression

 

[dezz]

OP has taken psychedelics and experienced what they have to offer, to make those insights stick requires being able to deal with life without chemical aids, I don't think what the OP needs is some miracle drug but mental tools in day to day situations to overcome these emotions

 

[TruffulaTree]

right, but psychedelics can help put things in perspective...trips can be life changing dude. not for everyone, and not always, but they definitely have a whole lot of potential to help

 

[custard]

The big difference in your sober experience and your intoxicated experience is that in one YOU ARE NOT ACTIVELY TRYING TO BE HAPPY. This constant striving for something to be different, for something to change is basically reinforcing your believe that life is not good enough. Fighting your depression is keeping you depressed. This is why meditation practice is called practice, the being mode has to grow and in order to grow and to be able to have access to that state easily without the use of drugs it has to be done daily for a certain amount of time (about 30 minutes.)

Think of something you want to change or something you have been holding on to for a long time, see if letting go, letting it be provides more relieve then clinging. If you start to feel sad, or depressed, don't start to think your way out of it or distract yourself by turning on the TV, but rather ANALYZE it, observe it, ask yourself: What is this? What am I actually feeling? At the end of the day you can turn up the radio to block out the noise coming out of your engine, but a few miles down the road your car will stop working nonetheless. Using drugs to combat depression is not a long term solution, trying to get rid of depression has gotten you no where, so learn to be with it, realize depression lies to you. A depressed mind is a liar, so stop thinking, don't take your thoughts so seriously and don't look at them as absolute truths and get up and do something. Waiting for something to make you happy won't work.

^yes, but at the same time, drugs (psychedelics especially) can open you up and give you insights into yourself in a way that is impossible to achieve any other way. And those insights can be invaluable to fighting depression

You're both right! Psychedelics do have incredible healing potential and can wake you the fuck up when you've lost track of what's important (Ayahuasca did this for me ten-fold) - but you won't grow unless you can retain what you've learned and are able to embody it in sober life. I was feeling pretty low and desperate when I wrote the first post.. but my mind feels calmer the last couple of days, and I'm trying to remember what Aya taught me and make some changes. That was good advice, dezz, and that's pretty much exactly what I've started telling myself again. To stop trying so hard to achieve a certain mental state and accept mediocrity. To not get stuck in my head (or bed) but go about my life and do things, regardless of how I feel. The more I resist depression the stronger a force it becomes, and only once I stop searching so hard for meaning will I begin to experience it.

Odd as it may be to quote an anti-drug Republican on this forum, William Bennett says it well:
"Happiness is like a cat, If you try to coax it or call it, it will avoid you; it will never come. But if you pay no attention to it and go about your business, you'll find it rubbing against your legs and jumping into your lap."

Will respond to previous posts tomorrow. Too tired to write more. 'night bluelight.

 

[seacidal]

"Depression" is a challenging word in the the English language. There's sadness. There's situational depression. And then there's major depression. They are not at all the same thing. It has been said that major depression cannot be appreciated by people who have not experienced it. I would probably agree.