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psychedelics and dissociatives for depression. please help

custard

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
151
Hello.

Bit of backstory: After suffering from depression for years, I feel that I have tried everything. Three months in the desert for intensive wilderness therapy, followed by living in a transition program, good exercise and sleeping habits, yoga, mediation, individual and group therapy, antidepressants (SSRIs, NDRIs), a healthy social network - the works. Many of these things have helped me a lot and I feel I've come a long way in the last couple of years.

BUT... I still feel that I am suffering from chronic depression, and generally speaking I feel pretty unmotivated to do much of anything, and feel there is a huge wall between me and myself, me and the rest of the world. You know what depression feels like.

I've experimented for recreational and spiritual purposes with various psychedelic drugs over the past few years as well. I've found that (as many studies are currently proving) NMDA receptor antagonists, AKA ketamine and DXM, have worked wonders as antidepressants for me. I've used classic psychedelics less (done acid a few times), but it has also served as a powerful antidepressant for me. Immediately after use of these drugs I feel myself, I feel free, playful, the world becomes meaningful again, I have drive, I feel connected, etc. Unfortunately this feeling only stays with me for 1-2 days after using, and then depression returns.

Something I tried recently (about 1.5 months ago) was ayahuasca, at a shamanic ceremony. It was an incredible experience and my depression was lifted, and I feel I learned a lot about myself. But gradually this feeling began to fade, and a few weeks after the ceremony I felt I was back at square one. If I had access to this powerful medicine I would definitely try it again, but this was a once-in-a-lifetime experience I think, (and was also in the Netherlands - I don't know any shamans around here (Toronto, Canada.))

Anyway to cut to the chase: I'm really just looking for some help here. I feel at a loss. I have already built a very high tolerance to DXM, and my stomach also seems much less able to keep it down than it used to. I acquired some ketamine recently, but it's very expensive, and I am also building a tolerance to it. Believe the two drugs are cross-tolerant as well. In the summer I took DXM in low doses about 3x a week for a couple of months and it was wonderful. My depression was gone, and for those couple of months life changed - I made new friends, grew closer to the ones I had, did more art... basically I felt truly alive for the first time in years. I'm trying to resume taking ketamine/DXM about 3x a week again, so I can feel alive again, but due to lack of funds and ever-increasing tolerance, I'm worried this system won't last long. I had to quit DXM cold turkey in the summer after those 2-3 months of frequent use because it pretty much stopped working completely.

I don't know what to do. I so desperately just want to feel alive and feel like myself again, but the only drugs that work for me as antidepressants are illegal and expensive and/or build tolerance quickly. I wish the modern world wasn't so backwards and it wasn't so difficult to access powerful healers like ayahuasca or ketamine, and so incredibly easy to access SSRIs and benzos and other drugs that tend to do more harm than good (in my personal experience). Anyway.. if anyone has any suggestions I would really appreciate it. Ways to reduce tolerance, prolong effects, alternate NMDA antagonists or psychedelics that may help, whatever you can offer. Much appreciated.

custard
 
Hi,

you should propably look into aMT. It was used as antidepressant in the soviet union.
The few times i used it, i felt a nice mood-lift (way more pronounced than with other psychedelics) for the next few days. But i dont suffer from depression.
 
try psilocybin mushrooms if you haven't already. they've been quite effective in treating depression. Also, you can do them once a week for the rest of your life without any tolerance building. If you do them more than once a week, the tolerance builds, but it'll be gone a week later :)

plus, they're super fun!
 
i live in Hamilton 45 min from Toronto. ive heard some things about ayahuasca over in the Indian reserve area in caledonia just south of Hamilton. it was just word of mouth so i could be wrong but worth looking into.
 
Have you read this thread, custard? That might be a good avenue for you. I'm sure it's possible to find some ayahuasca ceremonies in Canada, by the way. Just keep looking.

Also, it might be worth looking for an open-minded psychiatrist who's able to prescribe ketamine off-label. I doubt that many physicians would go for it, but someone open-minded enough might be open to the idea. :)

One last thing: there are a number of psychedelics researchers in Canada, it might be worth looking them up and asking them for ideas. Could be worth a shot. Take care dude.
 
Maybe you can intent a vipassana retreat of 10 days and thanks to that retreat bring a daily meditation pratice in your life.
 
Wow, thankyou for all the responses everyone. It's comforting to see there are options out there just when I feel like giving up.

pmoseman: No, haven't tried ECT. I finally met with a psychiatrist yesterday after a 10 week waiting list though, and he suggested a new method of treatment they are now offering in some hospitals called "repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation" (rTMS). So I may give that a whirl. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic_stimulation#Effects_on_the_brain

Trees: (a tree + truffula tree) Haven't tried aMT. Is it similar to DMT/ayahuasca? Will have to do further research, but it certainly seems worth tracking down. Strangely I also haven't tried shrooms yet, although I will probably be acquiring some in the near future. Is that really true about no tolerance? Haven't done psychedelics frequently enough to know, but I would assume the magic would fade over time? Although come to think of it at the ayahuasca ceremony there were people who attended every weekend.. Guess I'll find out :3

imastabaho: Interesting. Not sure who to ask or how to go about it exactly - the ceremony I attended just kindof fell into my lap. (My dad happened to be good friends with the shaman.) But will definitely sniff around.

LucidSDreamr: It's on the to-do list.

Reverend Random: I checked out the thread, thanks. Also have looked at jamshyd's. Curious about the frequency of dosage. Both of these published ketamine-antidepressant-regimes seem to involve frequent daily usage. I'm trying to use only about 2x a week in order to make it last, but maybe there's something to be said for a straight week of ketaland having longer-lasting effects. Any experience with this? Maybe I'll PM the guy who made the thread. Also, when I visited the doc yesterday, things went much better than expected. He gave me the name of a doc (Dr. Downer - ha) who apparently prescribes oral ketamine right here in the city! I was very surprised/relieved to hear this. So we'll see how that goes. Thanks.

thikal: I already do meditate daily, and have visited weekend retreats in the past. Maybe when I have the time and funds I will go on a longer retreat. 'Tis a good idea.

thanks again.
 
You're welcome. Note of importance: in Foreigner's thread about treating depression with ketamine, he specifically mentioned keeping dosages _very low_ in order to avoid any recreational effects. Read that thread really well, the man did his research and pointed out all the obvious pitfalls. I'm not saying that his way is the only way, but he did his utmost to describe the pros and cons of his ketamine regime. Do shoot him a PM, I'm sure he's more than happy to assist you with good advice.

You seriously have a line to a psych called Dr. Downer? Excellent. =D

Good luck on your journey and please keep posting back, your story might help and inspire others in turn.
 
nah man, as far as I know, the "magic" in mushrooms never fades. there's some chart somewhere about tolerance, and it's only week to week. Although I personally wouldnt undergo intense trips every week because it would be kind of stressful haha, I need time to sit with it and think about it and get ready for the next one. I know people who trip shrooms every week and love it though. each to their own. Plus, the afterglow lasts into the next day and it's fantastic :)
 
The aftergolow from mushrooms may well help you & they're definitely worth considering. Even a mild trip produces as much as a week of uplifted mood.

I saw someone above recomend Methoxetamine rather than Ket. Not bad advise but as Methoxetamine is an RC that has brought addiction & other problems to regular users, it should be taken only with the utmost caution.

Best of luck & best wishes :)
 
Unless you are hung up on a shaman and ceremony you could make your own ayahuasca. I feel no anti depressant effects from LSD personally. Mushrooms has a post trip glow for me though of a day or 2. I don't know if the tolerance effects anti depressant effects too. There are some people on this board micro dosing for that reason though. Ketamine sounds like it holds some promise, it's expensive though. My roommate is trying to sign up for Ketamine trials at local university. I don't know if I would want anti depressants from street source due to lack of consistent supply. I use pot for it and running out sucks...
 
I've been using DXM as an antidepressant for months, and it works. But be warned: DXM's SSRI (SRI?) properties mean that getting off the drug can result in hellish withdrawals upon cessation (brain zaps, nausea, etc.). If you go this route, just make sure that you have enough for tapering, if it looks like your stash is about to run out!
 
^Yeah, sucks when it happens... if it happens. I swear I'm experiencing some sort of reverse-tolerance to the drug!
 
You know i also suffer from a couple mental illnesses, Generalized anxiedy disorder / Panic Disorder And Manic Depression and when i was younger i would take psychedelics CONSTANTLY for this reason and recreationally but it ALWAYS left me feeling no more of my depression or anxiedy as long as the trip went well. Just be careful because i think for Over doing it on my part actually made my mental illness especially anxiedy panic disorders worse, but As someone said, Try Psilocybin Mushrooms and DMT if you can get your hands on it, it's very very Potent and not like any psyches i've taken but it's very very spiritual and makes you feel amazing afterwards and Alleviates my disorders for a little while after words as in a couple days + and since you've already taken ORAL DMT in your Aya-Trip, maybe it smoked will be fun and HELP YOU. Sadly DXM i had pure powdered DXM and was taking WAY WAY too much maybe thats why it never worked for me? it was actual negative for me, but Psilocibin Mushrooms helped me out alot and also LSA ( alot like LSD but LEGAL to order the Seeds and NATURAL Id Go with Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds give em a read then possible try). have you tried the ketamine? Because if you didn't know DXM is known as Ketamines Retarded Little brother ( no offence to anyone with any kind of those disorders....) Get back to me and feel free to Private Message me and i can let you know what has worked or not worked for me...

Hope i can help you out because i know that pain man,
Best of luck to you,
-B
 
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I've been using DXM as an antidepressant for months, and it works. But be warned: DXM's SSRI (SRI?) properties mean that getting off the drug can result in hellish withdrawals upon cessation (brain zaps, nausea, etc.). If you go this route, just make sure that you have enough for tapering, if it looks like your stash is about to run out!
Not sure if you know but DXM is actually a psychedelic from the opioid family, i also think Ketamine is.. I could definitely see how someone could have withdrawls from over using them. When it comes to SSRI's And SSNI's It's horrible, they since are called " non habit forming drugs" they call withdrawl "Discontinuation Syndrome" and all it is, is withdrawl and it's no fun, so he's definitely right. A very good friend of mine who was on high dose effexor (an SSNI) when he stopped taking it, he was never a drug abuser so he didn't understand why when i was an active addict he didnt understand but actually came to me and said im sorry for when i gave you hell about doing that when you were ( im multple years clean from my Drug of choice) He was going on about the Brain Zaps, and throwing up horribly and alot of other negative withdrawl symtoms i want to honestly call these Dr's and scream at them they tell you they are non narcotic and wont leave you fucked but in the end they do which makes me angry about DR's not wanting to use benzo's for anxiedy because they say it themselves they are the Silver bullet they kill it immediately but you're dependant to them well people are dependant to SSRI's, SSNI's and all sorts of head meds, its really fucked up, Be careful.

Best of Luck,
- B
 
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