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Tryptamines Psilomethoxin Church

Latherdome said:
Looks like he's engaging in a discussion in this thread to me.

This is the "extra dramatic" ethical dilemma I mentioned above. I don't approve of this public representation, yet I do firmly believe/know that what they are distributing is great if mysterious stuff (albeit inconsistent). And purchasing it directly or indirectly funds the valuable research that is occurring to validate or revise the bold, apparently contrafactual claims made by other principals, as necessary basis for implementing the Good Manufacturing Practices that will bring consistency and the possibility of more meaningful safety research.

I don't see the chemist as endorsing the website claims, by the way. That would be unseemly for a scientist. Even investing in a reference standard of psilomethoxin presumes you know what you're looking for. It's more appropriate first to find what's in these mushrooms that accounts for the unique effects apparent in bioassay.
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Indeed he is engaging in the discussion. I misunderstood what he originally wrote.
However, he isn't simply a chemist. He is the Head Scientist at the Church of Sacred Synthesis. So there are ethical and legal issues with his words and actions (or lack of them) regarding the churches statements and operations.
 
Well... it really isn't that strange. Native American tribes of the southwest consume peyote during their rituals. And tribes of south America drink DMT as part of thier rituals as well. So, it actually isn't that weird.
 
ayalight said:
However, he isn't simply a chemist. He is the Head Scientist at the Church of Sacred Synthesis. So there are ethical and legal issues with his words and actions (or lack of them) regarding the churches statements and operations.
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My interactions with church officiants suggests they’re a pretty loose association of free agents acting with little coordination or concern for presenting a cohesive corporate message, or even avoiding contradiction. More like a church, but with little or no apparent hierarchy or PR/communications oversight. If you were to Demand to Speak to the Manager about any particular ethical or legal issue not personally scoped, I’m thinking you’d be met with blinks (in email of course) or maybe shown the hand.
 
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MedicinalUser247 said:
Well... it really isn't that strange. Native American tribes of the southwest consume peyote during their rituals. And tribes of south America drink DMT as part of thier rituals as well. So, it actually isn't that weird.
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"What" isn't really that strange? You don't seem to be referring to anything.
 
Latherdome said:
My interactions with church officiants suggests they’re a pretty loose association of free agents acting with little coordination or concern for presenting a cohesive corporate message, or even avoiding contradiction. More like a church, but with little or no apparent hierarchy or PR/communications oversight. If you were to Demand to Speak to the Manager about any particular ethical or legal issue not personally scoped, I’m thinking you’d be met with blinks (in email of course) or maybe shown the hand.
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Perhaps that is the case. If so it would further underscore that this is a profoundly irresponsible way to operate an endeavor that claims to be a church which is promoting, creating and distributing a schedule one substance(s). Including, perhaps, one which hasn't been tested for its efficacy and safety.
 
brokepsilomethoxinchemist said:
Its this, but happening as if it were an episode of its always sunny in Philadelphia.

My lack of control over the website is how that even is there, I actually have gone through all posts and content with a list of what needs to be removed. Don't take my word for this, it doesn't matter anyway here- but I have absolutely been walking every position or aspect I can reach off the looney ledge. It took my first 4 weeks insisting at each meeting to agree- that if at some point there might be any isolated/synthesized 4-oh-5-meo-dmt, that no one is to ingest it in any manner until pre-clinical toxicology studies are complete at the minimum. That's just cell culture exposure anyway and I hope for at least a small metabolism study, perhaps binding profile checked as well.

do they have the pikachu surprise face on here?
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You might want to talk to a lawyer (who isn't associated with the CoSS) about your legal vulnerabilities regarding your association with them.

I notice you didn't respond to what I wrote about your "goosechase" comment.

And I have no idea what you meant when you wrote:
"do they have the pikachu surprise face on here?"
in response to my comment copied below
ayalight said:
Perhaps that is the case. If so it would further underscore that this is a profoundly irresponsible way to operate an endeavor that claims to be a church which is promoting, creating and distributing a schedule one substance(s). Including, perhaps, one which hasn't been tested for its efficacy and safety.
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Defensiveness reconsidered in light of contemplating ayalight's sincerity. I really do hope to be able to make a difference, and learn from those who know more without letting ego in the way.
 
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Good luck with the project, whatever comes out of it @brokepsilomethoxinchemist ! I'd really love to see someone re-synthesising psilomethoxin since it was first made by the way, even though I don't have high hopes for the compound concerning its potential toxicological concerns and potential psychedelic properties.
 
doubleblindmag.com

This Veteran-Founded Church Wants to Sell Psychedelics At Your Local Drug Store

After controversy, the Church of Psilomethoxin has far-out dreams for new business
doubleblindmag.com doubleblindmag.com

This new article reveals some new twists in the Church of Psilomethoxin/Sacred Synthesis saga.
I have always been somewhat circumspect referring to them as a "church" given that they seem to have a mail order business selling their mushroom based substance (be it only psilocybin, psilocybin with a novel tryptamine or alleged psilomethoxin that no one has been able to find) to those who fill out a form. And they have some events.

According to this article they have also incorporated as a for profit entity called PsiloSynth. Apparently they want to eventually sell their substance in stores. They appear to be working with a biotech company to try to manufacture yeast based biosynthetic psilomethoxin. It's not clear if this is possible or what the effects or safety profile of this substance would be. And even if it could be produced it wouldn't answer the question of what (besides psilocybin) they are producing now.

However, it does seem to underscore the commercial nature of this enterprise which would seem to undercut any RFRA claims they might try to make. And if they did manage to create yeast based psilomethoxin they would still have to deal with the analog drug act given that the alleged pharmacological profile and phenomenological effects are similar enough to other scheduled tryptamines.

Like many people, I'm still trying to absorb all the complex matters and consequences involved with this enterprise
 
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I'm reframing something I wrote earlier in a reply to a post that is no longer here. I was/am clarifying why the Religious Freedom Restoration Act does not automatically make the use of a psychedelic legal for any given religious/spiritual group or individual:

RFRA does not in any way automatically allow for the use of any given psychedelic by a person or entity claiming to be engaged in a religious practice.

The UDV Supreme Court case and the Santo Daime 9th district case created a precedent for using RFRA as a legal defense. These cases did not legalize the use of ayahuasca or any other psychedelic by religious practitioners in general. The sacramental medicines many of us use are still considered controlled substances and so are still subject to regulation by the DEA. This is the case with the UDV and Santo Daime. Their sacramental inventory, distribution and secure storage are audited by the DEA. If the CoSS ended up in court they would never win since they distribute through the mail and have no control over what happens with the sacrament after it leaves there hands. What's called "chain of custody" is very important to the DEA for diversion. There are other legal twists and turns as well.

However, at the present time neither the DEA or other law enforcement (except for DHS/CBP) seems interested in pursuing or prosecuting the spiritual use of psychedelics (or much of any use outside of large production operations). Apparently they realize these are far less dangerous then fentanyl, meth, heroin etc. and are focusing their resources on those substances.
However, things could change as psychedelics become available legally for therapeutic use and as other legal and decrim efforts unfold. This may put more pressure on them to be more cognizant about controlling how and under what pretenses people are providing psychedelics.
 
So I have the link to this church, and I wondering if anyone had actually bought the “sacrament”, was it good shit?
 
MedicinalUser247 said:
Well... it really isn't that strange. Native American tribes of the southwest consume peyote during their rituals. And tribes of south America drink DMT as part of thier rituals as well. So, it actually isn't that weird.
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You should quote whatever statement your referring too, otherwise, it looks somehow as though your that wierd guy at party in the corner having a full conversation, yet there isn’t anyone near him.
 
Littana said:
if u bother to read the last couple pages u would know it was bullshit
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What's apparently bullshit is that it contains psilomethoxin as they continue to represent in the face of contrary evidence. My ongoing (almost 11 months almost daily) microdosing of the mystery substance continues to indicate that it's "good shit" besides psilocybin and placebo, at least 4 of the 7 separately packaged portions I've received. (It's inconsistent because they can't optimize production of what they can't yet positively identify.) If you are bold and curious and not too put off that church principals have made and continue to make false or unverifiable statements about it, I see little risk in trying, but if you're looking to trip I'd say move on. If you've wanted to be able to extend indefinitely the next-day functional afterglow of a proper trip of say acid or psilocybin (or 5 according to those who know that): it's more like that, with no tolerance forming. Also stacks really nicely with specifically edible cannabis, in a distinct way very unlike psilocybin (which is present too, but in amounts inconsistent with intensity and character of effects).
 
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4-OH-5-MeO-DMT has been synthesized, currently stable in solution under a nitrogen blanket. I'm seeking assistance from anyone with access to NMR for structural confirmation. As to whats in the sacrament, currently pouring over lc/ms data to confirm the very interesting findings I'll share here soon.
 
Congratulations if you've pulled off the synthesis. Can it be produced at any scale? Looking forward to find out your data about what's in the substance that's already being provided to people. Of course, having a sample of 4-OH-5 MeO-DMT isn't necessarily to determine what's in that substance. Yet, the synthesis would be quite an accomplishment in it's own right.
 
I was just informed that psilomethoxin / 4-OH-5 MeO-DMT is available for sale in France:


Although they assert it is a controlled substance in the US and one needs to contact them to confirm what documentation they need in order to purchase it.
 
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