Processing what I just experienced

[bennyZA]

A few days back I decided to do more LSD than I've ever done before, trip harder than I ever have before. Why? Well, I'm in a dark place in my life. Shit is not good. LSD helps me break down walls that my sober brain creates and lets me look at things from a different perspective. So I took 600ug of LSD. I'm pretty sure that's what most people would consider a heroic dose (maybe not). I don't know if I went ++++ and I don't know if I experienced ego-loss (it's so hard to explain what I felt) but I did leave my body. I became a ball of energy traveling and dancing with water gods (with my eye's open mind you). I decided to lay in bed and close my eyes and let the full synthesia take me. It was truly something else. I couldn't tell what sensation was attached to what, I was just consciiousness, I had no body. Yet I only reached this state when I "let go" which was very difficult.

Two questions:
1. How does one take these intense and crazy hallucinations and break them down, study them, etc.

2. Should I take an ever higher dose, maybe 800ug so letting go is even easier? Mind you I'm VERY experienced with psychedelics and drugs in general.

 

[sekio]

How does one take these intense and crazy hallucinations and break them down, study them, etc.

However you like.

Be careful if you are doing high dose trips w/o a sitter, esp. if you are in "dark places".

 

[Morninggloryseed]

1. How does one take these intense and crazy hallucinations and break them down, study them, etc.

In the same way people study the 'mind'....the same way a psychologist would break down an individual's behaviors (maladaptive or otherwise) and tie them to the person's needs, previous experience, desires, disposition, goals, etc, etc, etc. Some other issues to focus on....what is this dark place, what 'place' do you see for yourself that is not dark? How will you get there? Focusing on these issues will allow the mind to tie people, places, and things together with the experiences you had on the 'trip'...remember that the trip is all you...LSD has no personality, no intent, no agenda.....it is your mind that produced the experience, it is your mind that interprets the experience, your experience was your mind.....this type of free association (with a 'guide' to help you) will help you to give words, language, meaning to the trip....then you can begin the next step of 'learning' what lessons are there to be learned....and hopefully work hard to apply those lessons to your 'normal' consciousness.

The questions you ask and the fact you have to ask for answers here is whole problem with the psychedelic movement...nobody uses them correctly. This is why psychedelics only have a less than 50% success* rate in facilitating a +4 when taken outside of a native culture(i.e. Yopo land, Ayahuasca land, mushroom land, iboga land, etc....(or some fancy western 'shaman' who uses psychological techniques to help the 'traveler' make the most of the psychedelic experience.) I bet the +4 success rate in 'authentic' ayahuasca divination, or mushroom divination, (and clearly Bwiti divination) is closer to 90%.

* http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Ano5SnEBHz-5UiOm-hZm6rw&bvm=bv.47008514,d.eWU

2. Should I take an ever higher dose, maybe 800ug so letting go is even easier? Mind you I'm VERY experienced with psychedelics and drugs in general.

Maybe, what are you looking for? What did your LSD trip fail to do? Look at it this way...the LSD was active? You described an out of body experience...that is something people who do not choose to use psychedelics (or do not know of them beyond the context of 'dangerous, illegal drugs') spend years learning to do....let's focus more on what happened last time before you go back for more...if it did not work the last time at such a high dose, I am not sure it would this time either without you changing your approach to the drug, and intentions.....and with that last statement...I only suggest that because you did not achieve what you intended to with the LSD...and a good rule of life is don't do the same thing expecting different results. Psychedelics don't 'change' you...they can show us where we want to be but we still have to do the hard work....think of them more as a wake up call.

Hope that gets you started.

 

[bennyZA]

The questions you ask and the fact you have to ask for answers here is whole problem with the psychedelic movement...nobody uses them correctly. This is why psychedelics only have a less than 50% success* rate in facilitating a +4 when taken outside of a native culture

I totally "get" everything you said, and I really totally agree with you. Psychedelics are not properly used. Though I think you confuse what I'm asking. I'm not asking for you to tell me what my trip meant or to "ask for answers." I guess I should clarify. I'm asking what techniques people use to find answers in their experiences. The experience was so intense, and the results so astounding that I still do not know how or what really happened. Obviously I remember what I saw and felt though. I know I did not have a ++++ experience because everyone who has said they've gotten there said you know, there's no "I think I reached ++++."

You gotta remember though, it's great to talk about the abilities of natives to reach mystical levels, but not only do I not have access to mega doses like natives, but I also do not have the luxury of having a shaman around with me. I probably never will. I also do not have anyone who uses LSD in the same way as I do that is more experienced and can help me make sense of things. That's why I'm turning to BL, you guys are my shamans. It has been 5 days since the trip, the entire next day I spent nearly the whole day doing zazen (I have done all day sittings when I lived at a Buddhist temple, so I really mean it) trying to unclutter my mind so I could understand better when I started to analyze. The day after that I spent nearly the whole day trying to remember everything and think about each thing, but I couldn't put some things together. Like I said, what are some techniques people use to piece together the meanings and such. I wish I could have written down my experience during my trip, but there was no way I could write.

Maybe, what are you looking for? What did your LSD trip fail to do? Look at it this way...the LSD was active? You described an out of body experience...that is something people who do not choose to use psychedelics (or do not know of them beyond the context of 'dangerous, illegal drugs') spend years learning to do....let's focus more on what happened last time before you go back for more...if it did not work the last time at such a high dose, I am not sure it would this time either without you changing your approach to the drug, and intentions

Like I said, the reason I want to try more is because the out of body experience and the nearly total synthesia was fleeting. I had to "let go" mentally. To let all the psychological walls in my brain melt away and fully experience the trip. When I was able to do it, it wasn't even tripping. It was something completely different. It was like going into a journey into another world. My intentions with taking more is to make it easier to get there. Obviously that may seem like a cop out, but I truly believe that LSD (and mescaline, my other spiritual friend) unlocks a part of the brain that simply cannot be unlocked otherwise. It is a key. I guess to use a metaphor: LSD - as a key - opened a door to this new dimension, but there was a still a door chain attached. So I could open the door, and peak in, but I couldn't get into the "room." If that makes any sense.

Also, could you be more specific about changing my approach to the drug, what are some better ways to focus on what happened, and what intentions? Cause it DID work, but I need help figuring out how to figure out what happened, I know... confusing, right. I also thing my approach and my intentions are the right ones, for me at least.

Be careful if you are doing high dose trips w/o a sitter, esp. if you are in "dark places".

This may sound so pretentious of me, and make me sound like a tool, but I'm VERY VERY experienced with psychedelics and I've never ever had an issue with them. I've never had a bad trip, and the "difficult experiences" I've had that people say are necessary to truly understand LSD have happened but never really turned things sour. LSD is for spiritual purposes only, I almost exclusively use them when I'm in a dark place because I never just do LSD to see what happens. It must call to me. It's weird. I'll be in a certain mindset, or a certain place, and I just know that it is time to see things from the other side. So, for me, trip sitters get in the way. I know, I know, terrible of me. When I did 600ug, I had a friend with me, and he was bored and he got in the way. Several times he had to pull me out of my trip to ask something of me as mundane as "I really need a cigarette, where are they." Trip sitters are either overbearing, annoying, or make me feel weird cause I'm tripping and they're not. A serious trip is for me to do in peace, and to not be bothered and frankly that just cannot be done with a sitter UNLESS they are a shaman or a more experienced user who is guiding me... but I have access to neither of those.

Oh, and I decided to do it with 600ug again, but I'm going to try and prepare a little better this time, find a way to unlatch the door chain without upping the dose. I've heard from a lot of people that when you get to the really high doses the differences aren't as big. So the difference between 600 and 800 is no where near as big as the difference between 100-300. Also, I really don't want to spend anymore money than I have too

Oh, and sorry for the ridiculously long post, I write for a living, so I tend to write really long posts.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Awesome response! Thank you for using your brain....you are making this a better world...and I really mean that...not being a smart assed MGS. It's late but I will replace this with a real reply tomorrow.

 

[bennyZA]

To be honest I thought you were being a total ass for a second, look forward to your response! Btw, what is MGS?

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Maybe I get too focused on writing and forget to read how I 'sound' because I really have never figured out why I sounded like a total ass to you...certainly not my intention...sorry for leaving that impression. I am certainly a know-it-all but it is never (usually) about ego...it is about spreading the knowledge.

I clearly misread your original post and gave an answer that has nothing to do with what you are asking. And having reread it after sleep, and some good coffee, I am not sure how to answer the question...how does one learn and make sense of a difficult experience? How does one attach meaning to something that seems to have no meaning? There are answers but to be able to convey anything via keyboard is an exercise in futility. I really did want to answer your questions, that is why I took the time to write up what I did...but writing at the end of a long day and not reading the original question clearly makes for a asshole-ish and long-winded MGS post of limited use to you.

Your intentions sound good, certainly my own personal 'intentions' for every trip are often very personal and few would probably find the psychedelic useful in the many aspects I use them in....I don't think you need to change your intentions...it was simply a suggestion from misreading your OP.

Not a cop out on my end, I just really am not sure how to type out anything short of an essay. From the sounds of rereading your post, you are clearly a smart and self aware person. Seek out someone local that is on the level and lay it out to them. That will get your further than you are now.

Anyone else want to help this guy where I failed to?

Oh....MGS is short for Morninggloryseed. Morninggloryseed is an online character who's words and message is written and approved by the Guardianship of the MGS, a body composed of a constitutionally-mandated 12-member council that wields considerable power and influence in the Entheogenic People's Republic of MGS.

To be honest I thought you were being a total ass for a second, look forward to your response! Btw, what is MGS?

 

[bennyZA]

Maybe I get too focused on writing and forget to read how I 'sound' because I really have never figured out why I sounded like a total ass to you

Your first, longer post, did not seem assholish at all... I thought what you said made very good sense, but - like you said - didn't apply to my OP as much as you probably thought it would. I think we are on the same level when it comes to psychedelics. When I meant you sounded like I total asshole I meant your short post where you said "Awesome response!" in my experience, people on the internet tend to be sarcastic when it comes to being very supportive and nice. It's rare that someone actually means what you said.

Anyone else want to help this guy where I failed to?

So few people take LSD for the same reason as I do. That's not to say that there are not plenty of people on BL that do... but I think it is hard for others - like yourself - to answer my OP.

Seek out someone local that is on the level and lay it out to them. That will get your further than you are now.

That's why I posted this on BL, I don't know anyone who is on the level that I am. I tried bringing this up on the Tripsit IRC channel, but it's just a bunch of teenagers dick sizing about how much drugs they've taken. The only other people I know who take LSD or mescaline do it for the "fun." Not to say LSD isn't fun, I fucking love it, but like I said, that's not my main reason for doing it.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

That's why I posted this on BL, I don't know anyone who is on the level that I am. I tried bringing this up on the Tripsit IRC channel, but it's just a bunch of teenagers dick sizing about how much drugs they've taken.

Yeah that's rough....really made the point because I didn't know what else to say. It is VERY hard to find anyone who knows how to really use psychedelics in a way that promotes higher than 50% ++++ success rates, where 'bad trips' and other such nonsense are irrelevant, and to provide the support for during (and most importantly after) the experience.

I still cann't get over that even here at Bluelight, after explaining why there are no 'Bad trips' in MGS land...that they don't exist...that people would argue with me and say that somehow all the sudden, the psychedelics I use (and measure out the dosage of) are all the sudden (not only) going to become unpredictable for me...but that my entire life, background, education, disposition, etc, etc etc that all factor in to why there are no such things as 'bad trips' in my world...will become irrelevant...and suddenly I would have a bad trip as if by magic.

I realized too that even people who trip a lot have no idea what they are really doing when it comes to using them the way I do....nothing wrong with how other people use them....I am an ex junkie...I do not judge that sorta thing.....taking a psychedelic haphazardly for whatever reason is something we all should have the balls to do...the point I am making is that the people that do so...and then make the logical leap that I must take them that way too in my work...woke me up to how rare it is to find anyone who really uses the psychedelics as I use them...be it personally or when conducting a session for others.

I really do hope you find a mutual guide. Feel free to PM me for further discussion, I do have IM, IRC, etc.

 

[Reverend Random]

Can I chime in with some thoughts as well?

I agree it was hard to give a good answer to your questions. The feeling I had reading your OP and that I have with many people who've had very difficult or very impressive experiences, is that you can sometimes get really focused on what it all meant and I'm not sure it's always helpful. Since you're already experienced with meditation, I would suggest you just let go and try to let the experience be, if that's at all possible. Maybe the answers will come, maybe they won't. Maybe they just take a lot of time and you're not getting the answers straight away. Who knows, eh? Psychedelics do work in mysterious ways.

Mind you, I'm just thinking aloud, because I recognize the need for someone to tell you what's up and I'm trying to put myself in the position of a shaman or someone who's very experienced with psychedelics-aided therapy and imagining what they would think. An idea is to find a coach or therapist who has some experience with psychedelics or who's at least open to them. Might not be the easiest thing to find, but they're definitely out there.

I have no real suggestions re dose for a next time. Usually I would advice people to wait until the experience's been fully integrated. Maybe you needed to only get a glimpse of what was out there and not be immersed in it straight away?
One last thought: I don't know if upping the dose makes 'letting go' easier; it's a matter of intention and attitude and focus and the right, conducive setting that are most important, I think. Although high dosages to tend to confront more...

Anyway, this is a fascinating question and I wish I had any answers, but the best I can do is provide suggestions and see what it does to you.

 

[Incunabula]

If you are really serious about this, you could go to peru and seek out a Shipibo shaman at the temple of the way of light. It's a shamanic healing center. I haven't been there myself so can't recommend, but I'd like to go.

 

[bennyZA]

I still cann't get over that even here at Bluelight, after explaining why there are no 'Bad trips' in MGS land...that they don't exist...that people would argue with me and say that somehow all the sudden, the psychedelics I use (and measure out the dosage of) are all the sudden (not only) going to become unpredictable for me...but that my entire life, background, education, disposition, etc, etc etc that all factor in to why there are no such things as 'bad trips' in my world...will become irrelevant...and suddenly I would have a bad trip as if by magic.

I know what you mean, I had an argument with someone IRL about it. I was saying that some trips that look bad from the outside can be amazing for the person who actually tripped. I said it was subjective. They got heated and told me I don't know what subjective means and that I will have a bad trip and that I have had a bad trip. What an ass. He was young too, I think he'd only tripped once or twice cause he sounded like he knew nothing, but talked like he knew everything... There are no bad trips in BZ's land either. The one time I took an unknown amount of LSD and tripped by balls off and experienced synthestia for the first time I had a hard time, but then I told myself "I'm 1/100,000,00 people who will ever experience anything like this, I'm not only lucky, but this is a great gift that I shall treasure forever." It wasn't even that bad, I just wasn't ready for it, I had never tripped that hard. That's what I tell people now who are having a tough time when they're tripping and it almost always prevents people from having an anxious moment turn into a full on "freak out." I even think that "bad trip" is not a good term. What does "bad" really mean? The only thing I can think of is when people use LSD to party and can't handle what's going on. SET AND SETTING PEOPLE!

how rare it is to find anyone who really uses the psychedelics as I use them

Amen brotha, I wish more people used psychedelics for their proper purpose, for the purpose their natural cousins have been used for.

Can I chime in with some thoughts as well?

No absolutely not, I hate you and you suck

I would suggest you just let go and try to let the experience be, if that's at all possible. Maybe the answers will come, maybe they won't. Maybe they just take a lot of time and you're not getting the answers straight away. Who knows, eh? Psychedelics do work in mysterious ways.

That is probably the best advice, comment, or whatever , I've received on this post. I never thought about it like that. I live my life in the present moment, hence why I practice zazen at the local temple every day. For some reason I think, I CRAVE, an answer. Which may or may not come.

I have no real suggestions re dose for a next time. Usually I would advice people to wait until the experience's been fully integrated. Maybe you needed to only get a glimpse of what was out there and not be immersed in it straight away?
One last thought: I don't know if upping the dose makes 'letting go' easier; it's a matter of intention and attitude and focus and the right, conducive setting that are most important, I think

Again, fantastic comment. I remember when I did a massive amount of mescaline I had the same problem. I could feel that when I let go I was "almost there" but I just couldn't get there. This whole time I thought it was because I didn't take a high enough dose (oh but I did, I really really did). I think you're right; it is me who needs to be able to let go. That being said, I'm sure taking more wouldn't hurt. Either way, I think 600ug is my ceiling. I'm pretty sure that's considered a heroic dose, though I could be wrong.

 

[bennyZA]

If you are really serious about this, you could go to peru and seek out a Shipibo shaman at the temple of the way of light. It's a shamanic healing center. I haven't been there myself so can't recommend, but I'd like to go.

Yea, I don't know about that. I've heard too many bad stories of people getting scammed and fucked over. Either way, I think if I were to do it with a shaman, he would need to know me. These are very personal trips. A shaman / guide would need to be someone I trust and have faith in.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

What does "bad" really mean? The only thing I can think of is when people use LSD to party and can't handle what's going on. SET AND SETTING PEOPLE!

Such incredible content in this thread, since I am writing chapter on 'bad trips' and people's perceptions of psychedelics and how that effects the outcome....this discussion has come in really handy. No new words to add, other than to say it is good to be reminded that there are other like minded folks out there.

 

[bennyZA]

yea, despite the inability to get a "solid" answer to my question, I really like where this thread has gone. I wish more people would chime in... perhaps they will

 

[Reverend Random]

I think it's a wonderful discussion also. Glad to read my thoughts strike a chord, bennyZA. I thought I was stating the obvious, as you are into meditation and practicing zazen, which in my experience is nothing more than the art or skill of accepting and of letting go and letting things be.

I'm not sure if going to Peru and finding a shaman is the right path either. I've done ayahuasca with the Shipibo in Peru and while the aya wasn't particularly impressive, everything else was. The shaman was incredible in every way and taught me a lot on being humble. I'm this tourist who goes to a remote village looking for her, wanting to ayahuasca out of curiosity and not having too much time to prepare myself. Of course it wasn't a problem and two days later I'm in a hut in the middle of nowhere lying in the dark and listening to insects and rain. When we come to the next morning, I'm tired of not having slept, but she goes right back to prepare breakfast for her kids, to chop wood, prepare more ayahuasca, sing songs, take care of her family, nurse her kids and those of her sister, only to go and drink again the next night... et cetera ad infinitum. Hugely impressive.

Anyway, sorry for going off topic, but what led me to these memories was the fact that to me a good shaman is very good in accompanying and guiding the experience, but it ultimately is a very personal, subjective and highly individual experience you're undergoing. Things that you're experiencing might only make sense to you and no immediate sense to someone else. It's you who has to process the experience and the role of a guide, therapist or shaman is in gently steering you in the right direction. Not by telling you what's what, but by challenging you to find a meaning for yourself and to integrate what you experienced in daily life.

Integrating experiences is a real challenge, I find, and one important aspect of communities such as Bluelight. In a broader sense, I feel that this can be just as much harm reduction as any of the other things BL stands for. I for one wouldn't mind a specific section dedicated to helping people integrate difficult or overwhelming experiences...

 

[Incunabula]

Yea, I don't know about that. I've heard too many bad stories of people getting scammed and fucked over. Either way, I think if I were to do it with a shaman, he would need to know me. These are very personal trips. A shaman / guide would need to be someone I trust and have faith in.

Sorry for not being clear. I wasn't suggesting that you go there to take your LSD. I meant you could go there to just talk with the shipibo shamans. They make ayahuasca retreats, so they litterally have thousands of years of experience with integrating psychedelic experiences

 

[any major dude]

Interesting thread. There is a b&d integration thread around here somewhere I believe, that may have some useful info for your purposes, but you may be trying to eff the ineffable

Also I tend to think that once you get much beyond standard recreational doses, techniques become a larger factor than dose, unless you're taking things into full on ridiculous land of course.

 

[robbo0]

Yeah this also made for an interesting read (don't have time to read it all unfortunately got dissertation to complete before I can focus on my curiousness of psychedelics), especially as I'm a beginner. I've dazzled in a variety of psychedelics, but never hit the hard doses as I want it to be progressive and make sure I don't disillusion boundaries too quickly and freak myself out. I'm actually doing my best to let go of ego elements when sober as to be able to get the best out of a psychedelic experience. I have similar issues being at university, your friends are always around and so the opportunity to delve in to a self-awareness trip taking you to whatever spiritualist experience it may be, so instead it seems more recreational (misuse of psychedelics). I also currently struggle to get hold of the harder psychedelics so I can't really speak from experience. However I listen to a lot of Terrence Mckenna, who is probably one of the most experienced psychedelic users of the West/isn't a shaman. He also has a superb mind and ways of analysis and evaluation, which is why I'm posting as he may be able to answer your OP.

Potential Answer to your OP starts here: (sorry like you I like to write and ramble )
If you YouTube Terrence Mckenna with the aspect of the answer your looking for I'm sure he'll stimulate some sort of response your looking for. He does in fact cover techniques that he has found most useful in remembering/understanding his DMT/Psycilocybin trips, which I'm sure you could apply to LSD trips. He has done LSD and I'm sure he covers it but he says he is more of a "plant guy" so I'm unsure what material he has done on LSD. In fact I'm sure he said he did DMT at the peak of an LSD trip so that guy really has little boundaries if any.

I got a glance of people mentioning bad trips, Terrence McKenna sees it as your ego/conscience state panicing/fighting against experiences it just not use to seeing as you only really get similarities when comparing to dreaming in the unconscious state, so when we see it consciously it can be too much for people. Therefore he has a similar theory to what you seemed to suggest, which is if you take enough of a dose to completely immerse yourself and loose sense of consciousness and know your surroundings then there is no room for the concious/ego to panic and therefore you cannot have a bad trip. He also says it's important not to give way to astonishment, but to actively act upon the real data/information you are receiving. All trips are personal experiences, but these guys have a interesting theories behind them. Terrence McKenna, Graham Hancock, Jason Silva, Joe Rogan (not quite on the level of the first 2). Graham Hancock's banned ted lecture is a really interesting watch it's called the 'War on consciouness'.

I only just found this site (I know your post was a long time ago, but hey..), and had to register to provide this answer as after unveiling all this information on psychedelics and the potential theories behind, and some of astonishing similarities with scientific theories, I cannot disregard psychedelics or view it as just some fun drug. Hopefully I'll find lots of other threads like this too. Wow I can't seem to stop myself from typing...if only I could do this for my disseratation! haha

 

[swilow]

^Just wanted to point out that recreational use of psychedelics is certainly no 'misuse'. Learning about and experiencing the mind should be one of the requirements of being human, and there is nothing out there saying it can't be fun.

I've wondered what Terence McKenna would think of our modern world could he see it now...