Pretty sure I got an NBOMe, but it tested purple with Ehrlich's reagent...

[5HToInfinity]

As far as I'm aware this is completely untrue.

Yeah sorry I just read this one of the NBOMe threads and took it for granted. I guess I'll make up for my unscrupulousness by testing some non-blotter 25I with an Ehrlich reagent. Happens to be that i've got my 25I dissolved in distilled water, will this affect the reagent test?

 

[Transform]

There was a batch of supposed ALD-52 going around in april which also tested positive using erlich's reagent but everyone thought was 25I. Could the blotter have been treated with a simple indole?

 

[5HToInfinity]

Gotta loose the carboxyl to get a tryptamine. And how does one distinguish between ALD and LSD? Sounds like you'd need mass spectrometry for that, a reagent test wouldn't suffice.

 

[my3rdeye]

Or he lives in an area with less dickheads that try to pass off RCs as acid. Certainly don't get that problem round here.

No one has that problem, its the 21st century version of my acid has rat poison in it.

 

[sekio]

ALD would react with Ehrlich exactly the same as LSD would.

I guess someone could dope a 25x blotter with some other indole compound but it is still unlikely that those blotters would be orally active

 

[Incunabula]

Yeah, I was under the impression liver metabolism destroys the N-benzyl group. B/y-Cyclodex is just starch in the end, it's not going to inhibit metabolism.

wait, what? Do we now know why NBOMe's aren't orally active?

 

[sekio]

because oral pharmacokinetics usually entails the passage of the drug through the liver before it reaches the blood

 

[Transform]

My mistake but you get the gist. The person who laid the blotters claimed a coating meant it had to be used buccally so we can be pretty sure it wasn't ALD-52

 

[daytryptr]

bonnaroovet, I have run into the same scenario. The compound I tried was absolutely not LSD yet tested somewhat positive for an indole. (I say somewhat because the reaction was a very light pink @ ~30-60 sec to a faint lavender after several minutes)
Given the possibilities that could be active on a std hit of blotter it would seem highly unlikely that this would be an indole other than LSD.

And there lies the mystery. I know for sure this was not LSD but the test implies otherwise.

My theory is that those laying the RC blotter have been getting smarter and are trying to ‘beat’ the test so to speak by adding a small amount of an indole into the mix. If this hypothesis is correct, the suspect indole would not need be active in the ug or very low mg range so as to fit on a std blotter. It would just need to be enough to test positive for an indole. (maybe this is why the reaction I observed was not exactly distinct)

Although this is just a theory I feel further examination is warranted. Anyone with insight as to how much indole must be present trigger a reaction when using Ehrlich’s would be useful. (I’m sure this information is available, I just have not begun to search for it)

Exactly what i was thinking. Most likely one of the more potentnt ones, like 5-meo-amt, or perhaps 5-meo-mipt in extremely low concentrations relative to the nbome/dox. Who knows, could pass the elrich test. I don't have the reagents to test said theory, so its all speculation.

Edit- Just found this bit of sound advice on DF-

So what is the logic of testing with these specific reagents?

Contrary to popular belief these test reagents do not positively identify any drug. It's not a case of test with reagent X and if it turns a certain color then it must be substance Y. That's a fallacy that has been spread by certain websites that list long tables of drugs and color change reactions. The testing is actually reductive. What we're trying to do is eliminate other possibilities with contradictory results up to a point where it seems most probable that one drug is present.

First we have to identify the other substances that might be present and that we need to be able to distinguish. In the case of LSD we're trying to distinguish it from other high potency hallucinogens such as the DOx series of psychedelic amphetamines, benzodifurans like bromo-dragonFLY, the NBOMe-2C series, 5-MeO-AMT etc.

Ehrlich reagent is an indole-reactive test. Ehrlich would therefore be expected to give a positive response to both LSD and 5-MeO-AMT since they are indoles, but not to the DOx series, bromo-dragonFLY or the NBOMe-2C series. A positive test with Ehrlich reagent would therefore make the presence of the latter substances improbable, while not contradicting that the substance may truly contain LSD.

We then need a second test to distinguish between LSD and 5-MeO-AMT. In the presence of LSD Marquis reagent turns olive green to black. Depending on the concentration 5-MeO-AMT should give a golden/brownish hue instead. It's important that the test is done at a suitable concentration so that the end color is not too intense, as deep gold/brown may look almost black. Again, an olive colored result would make the presence of 5-MeO-AMT improbable while not contradicting what would be expected if LSD were present.

Mecke reagent could then be used as an additional check to increase the confidence of the results. Mecke would be expected to turn olive to black with LSD. Any other color change would suggest the presence of something other than LSD.

So if after three tests we haven't had a contradictory result then it seems probable (though still far from certain) that LSD was the substance in question. One should still take care when consuming a new substance though. The test results are not 100% reliable, especially if the substance was a mixture

Read more: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179715#ixzz2F1RRdgpb

 

[sekio]

It is astoundingly unlikely someone would put two different psychedelics (25x and 5-meo-amt) on a blotter for the sole purpose of fooling an Ehrlich.

 

[Transform]

It needn't be an active dose of the tryptamine though, so like I say it could just be any cheap indole which will test as LSD does on a blotter.

5-MeO-MiPT has been as cheap as £20/g so you could fake a good 2000-5000 blotters with very little additional effort.

 

[TAPPER]

It is astoundingly unlikely someone would put two different psychedelics (25x and 5-meo-amt) on a blotter for the sole purpose of fooling an Ehrlich.

This sort of thing has been done with pills, why not on blotter? The typical consumer is more far savvy nowadays when it comes to test kits so it’s only logical to assume that the crooks would be trying to stay a couple steps ahead of them.

The theory I proposed wasn’t based solely on the results from an Ehrlich’s test. TLC analysis of four samples yielded results that seem to support the 2-compound theory. Two of the four samples were L, the other two samples were unknown RC’s but not the same RC. This was a blind test with all samples being equal. (visually, dimensionally, etc)

Results were as follows:
- two samples identified as L
- one sample identified as a mixture of L and another compound
- one sample could not be identified (unknown compound)

The samples were numbered prior to the test. Correlation between the control group (those I believed to be L) and the samples identified as L was 100%. Comments about the other two samples were essentially that we have exceeded the capacity of TLC to further identify the substances.

So what does this prove? Not much IMO. The sample size was small and there is room for error on many levels. What I know for sure is that the availability of RC’s active in the ug range is on the rise. These compounds exhibit characteristics more similar to L than previous attempts on blotter (DOx and FLY’s for example). Consequently, it’s not as easy to pick out the fakes as it once was. (in the “good old days” you either got L or paper)

So, I am highly confident in my ability to discern L from RC’s. Some TLC testing seems to support the possibility of multiple compounds on blotter. And something that is not L is reacting somewhat positive (faint lavender) to Ehrlich’s. Combine that with a few similar reports about questionable compounds and positive Ehrlich’s results and a theory is born.

I don’t know enough about NBOMes to say if it was or wasn’t. My goal was to further the discussion because something shady is going on with the L supply.

 

[✰hyperobjects✰]

Reagents don't (can't) lie and psychedelics are very non-linear drugs in terms of their subjective effects profiles.

The most likely compounds you will ever get misrepresented to you when you are buying L is a DOx or an NBOMe.
No one lays blotters with 5-methoxylated tryptamines --the only tryptamines potent enough to think about using as blotter. Still: it's more cost effective to misrep an NBOMe or a DOx (which don't react with Erlich) as LSD.

Faint lavender reaction probs means you got sold L at 100µgs or less and you're tripping yourself out and creating a different set of expectations and your experience was different. The typical consumer, as indicated in this thread, doesn't know how to read the results from their reagent, and doesn't believe the results when they see it for themselves. ::shaking my head:: @ this new generation of psychedelic kids.

What's shady is dealers trying to make bank and selling you hits at 100mics or less. Demand festival quality shit (LSD miced at 300 or above).

 

[Survived Abortion]

^Well said. It's probably just LSD and the LSD to reagent ratio was small enough to make the resulting colour pale.

If LSD dealers started putting NBOMes on their blotters instead and tried passing them off as acid they would lose all their customers in no time. It would make absolutely no sense business-wise at all. The only people who are going to be trying to pass off NBOMes as LSD are stupid kids with nothing better to do. These are going to be small, local runs of blotters and probably 80% of customers will never buy them again because they won't get any effects.

Those who are connected to LSD chemists are not going to suddenly start secretly switching their blotters to NBOMe.

because oral pharmacokinetics usually entails the passage of the drug through the liver before it reaches the blood

If this is the case, could they be made orally active via the concomitant administration of a cyp2d6 or cyp3a4 enzyme inhibitor and/or grapefruit juice?

 

[TAPPER]

Reagents don't (can't) lie and psychedelics are very non-linear drugs in terms of their subjective effects profiles.

The most likely compounds you will ever get misrepresented to you when you are buying L is a DOx or an NBOMe.
No one lays blotters with 5-methoxylated tryptamines --the only tryptamines potent enough to think about using as blotter. Still: it's more cost effective to misrep an NBOMe or a DOx (which don't react with Erlich) as LSD.

Faint lavender reaction probs means you got sold L at 100µgs or less and you're tripping yourself out and creating a different set of expectations and your experience was different. The typical consumer, as indicated in this thread, doesn't know how to read the results from their reagent, and doesn't believe the results when they see it for themselves. ::shaking my head:: @ this new generation of psychedelic kids.

What's shady is dealers trying to make bank and selling you hits at 100mics or less. Demand festival quality shit (LSD miced at 300 or above).

Well, we are all entitled to our opinions.  A brief reply to your comments tho…
- TLC results from the lab trump Ehrlichs reagent in my kitchen every time
- Never once suggested that tryptamine had to be potent enough to be active on a blotter, just that it would be detectible by the reagent
- Was probably on tour before you were born, so maybe ‘old man’ is more appropriate than ‘kid’

^Well said. It's probably just LSD and the LSD to reagent ratio was small enough to make the resulting colour pale.

If LSD dealers started putting NBOMes on their blotters instead and tried passing them off as acid they would lose all their customers in no time. It would make absolutely no sense business-wise at all. The only people who are going to be trying to pass off NBOMes as LSD are stupid kids with nothing better to do. These are going to be small, local runs of blotters and probably 80% of customers will never buy them again because they won't get any effects.

Those who are connected to LSD chemists are not going to suddenly start secretly switching their blotters to NBOMe.

If this is the case, could they be made orally active via the concomitant administration of a cyp2d6 or cyp3a4 enzyme inhibitor and/or grapefruit juice?

I’m not sure you intended too, but your post essentially supports my theory.
- Dealers would indeed lose customers in no time unless they could convince people that said RC was actually LSD. No better way to accomplish this than to ‘cheat’ the test by introducing a tryptamine. As you have clearly stated, “It’s probably LSD” because of the color change.
- No business sense? Hmmm….bear with me for a bit of speculation. What if US L production has been declining or possibly stopped for some period of time? Many of the old school players are dead, locked up, or not in the best of health so it’s not outside of the realm of possibility. In this scenario, if stock were running low those involved would need to make more, walk away, or utilize the distribution network already in place and provide a substitute. Making L is high risk, costly, and not exactly an easy endeavor. On the other hand buying RC’s and laying blotter is much lower risk, cheap, and easy. I have seen countless family businesses run into the ground by the 2nd or 3rd generation.

 

[✰hyperobjects✰]

Well, we are all entitled to our opinions.  A brief reply to your comments tho…
- TLC results from the lab trump Ehrlichs reagent in my kitchen every time
- Never once suggested that tryptamine had to be potent enough to be active on a blotter, just that it would be detectible by the reagent
- Was probably on tour before you were born, so maybe ‘old man’ is more appropriate than ‘kid’




I’m not sure you intended too, but your post essentially supports my theory.
- Dealers would indeed lose customers in no time unless they could convince people that said RC was actually LSD. No better way to accomplish this than to ‘cheat’ the test by introducing a tryptamine. As you have clearly stated, “It’s probably LSD” because of the color change.
- No business sense? Hmmm….bear with me for a bit of speculation. What if US L production has been declining or possibly stopped for some period of time? Many of the old school players are dead, locked up, or not in the best of health so it’s not outside of the realm of possibility. In this scenario, if stock were running low those involved would need to make more, walk away, or utilize the distribution network already in place and provide a substitute. Making L is high risk, costly, and not exactly an easy endeavor. On the other hand buying RC’s and laying blotter is much lower risk, cheap, and easy. I have seen countless family businesses run into the ground by the 2nd or 3rd generation.

Sorry man, I question how much touring you've done if you've never heard the expression "kids on lot." The term Kids isn't an age qualifier.

It's also no secret that L production in the US has dramatically decreased since Pickard was locked up and it's no secret either many people are misrepresenting DOx or NBOMes as LSD in the festival circuit. There are a lot of kids (again, a figure of speech and not an actual assessment of age) that properly represent NBOMes as NBOMes and DOx as DOx as well. In my experience, most people who run with mainstream psychedelia or the hippie mafia are too pompous/ignorant to understand what RCs are to fuck with them. There are people in it just for the money though and will sell whatever and not give a fuck. These people generally don't have "distribution networks" though. And people who claim to be family while selling you a couple doses are probably bullshitting you. True dead don't advertise that fact. The level of paranoia and secrecy you get with anyone involved with LSD manufacture or regional distribution is off the charts. Anyone with a modicum of internet savvy is able to find schedule I substances online just as easily as unregulated RCs. Sure, LSD may be a bit of a scarce commodity if you buy your drugs on the street and have to do business with random people, but the world is your oyster if you know how to shop online.

I think you are being paranoid. There's no reason to suspect that someone would deliberately lay a different tryptamine on blotter just to fool an Erlich. Something you could try though is buying a Marquis and cross checking the reaction. Never trust just your mind to tell you what's real or true.

 

[daytryptr]

I think the only way something productive could come out of this debate, is for someone with the reagents, and the substances in question to lay them themselves, properly, and test several different ug amounts of said dox/nbomes/tryptamines. And be really fucking scientific, and precise when doing so.

Theoretically, its prob not happening on a large scale, since most lsd users would instantly know the difference via affects even after a positive indole elrich. Thats not really the question. The beans are at, what do various nbome/dox/random low (tasteless) ug amounts of tryptamines laid on blotters look like when elriched.

Personally, i think the control lsd blotter, would be distinct from the rest. Perhaps to the untrained eye/reagent tester, they could be fooled, but i think there would prob be color differences in the reactions between legit lsd blotters, and phen blotters laced with very low ug doses of trypts to try and fool an elrich that would arouse suspicion i those who have performed an elrich on legit lsd before and know what it looks like.

But, yes, it does seem like a highly unlikely tactic. The only way to know is to do a controlled experiment. Unless someone has the substances/reagents/skills to lay properly i don't think this topic will get anywhere.

Makes you wish we had legalized drugs, and scientific resources to answer these type of questions, but in that case, i doubt this would happen at all, since lsd would be readily available. I don't like advocating someone to do something i can't do myself, but if you have the reagents, and are willing to do it properly it would be a good hr contribution. Even if it shows that the THEORY of lacing potent phen blotters with ug amounts of indoles isn't a viable method of beating an elrich.

All we are doing is circle jerking around a theory no one has tested yet, and with that i think theres not much left to be said in terms of making progress on the idea without a controlled test. Not many have the skills/resources/or time to do so unfortunately. I would, but i lack all three of those, so idk theres much left to speculate about this idea, in terms of making progress on the theory.

 

[Jesusgreen]

I remember in the recent past seeing posts on other forums of members reporting that their 25I-NBOMe tested pink/purple with Ehrlichs.

Is it not possible that for some reason these compounds are flagging a false positive for indoles? I'm unsure as to exactly how the reagent works.

 

[twelvesevndi]

I think the only way something productive could come out of this debate, is for someone with the reagents, and the substances in question to lay them themselves, properly, and test several different ug amounts of said dox/nbomes/tryptamines. And be really fucking scientific, and precise when doing so.

well. this thread has been up for a while and i have a 25c and 25i powder. i just ordered some ehlrich's reagent.
i find posts like this annoying because so often people never post again when they post shit like this.
i'm posting in hopes that someone with real chemistry knowledge will pm me so i can pass along the source and we can confirm that the supplier is legit. i did not go to the obvious source as it is rather expensive.
allllllright. merry holidays pd.

 

[acousticman420]

lsd isn't at all made with rat poisin, as far as i know and i could be wrong but as lsd sits around hot or cold light or dark it starts to deteriorate into rat poisin some ppl dont get weak acid just older.on another note what the hell!!!acid used to be everywhere in my area. eversince shwag stock got busted i havent seen real cid in over a year!Help i miss you lucy!