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Miscellaneous Potential psychological harms of psychedelics, and why I will never try them!

I honestly don't think that moderate dosages of serotonergic psychedelics were offering much danger. I was afraid of them as well for many years after I overdosed on shrooms in my teens and got a panic attack (maybe my ego not ready to die, Idk) but when thinking about that, even from this OD nothing bad happened. I didn't get lasting PTSSD* or psychosis etc.. also psychedelics are considered safe enough nowadays to be utilized therapeutically. I do think that weed might be more dangerous than psychedelics. In the psych ward there were quite some adolescents with psychosis due to (or triggered by) weed over-use but none due to serotonergic psychedelics.

* I do know that this syndrome is real but the problem probably isn't itself but people overly focusing on it and getting mad about instead of letting stuff rest.
 
Caffeine is awesome. Oddly enough sometimes there's critique on caffeine from the psychedelic corner. It's understandable from the point of view of the creative. In psychological tests, psychedelics clearly increase creativity. Yet caffeine, despite increasing productivity, it does so at the cost of lowering divergent thinking, which underlies creativity. So some aversion from that POV is to be expected.

I've had multiple psy-fans push me back on caffeine usage. But the link between caffeine and longevity is firmly established. Unless we start seeing similar life-extension results for microdosing mushrooms or LSD once acceptance surpasses the longitudinal research threshold - which to be honest we conceivably could - it's a busted argument.

Yes, you're absolutely right to be fearful of psychedelics. It's no overstatement to say I've had my life ruined by deciding to take a decent dose of mushrooms. You simply don't know you're the type who shouldn't take psychedelics until you take them and realize you shouldn't have.

Virtually any other method of mind-altering is gradual in comparison. But around psychedelics there's this culture of the "heroic dose". Many people have had an amazing experience on decent doses, and want to spread that love, cringing at the thought of pussyfooting it. But it's a chemical, it's a weight, it's metrical. It can be as gradual as anything. 12 micrograms of acid physically feels really close to a stiff cup of coffee. Yet even in this minutely tiny realm you can already notice how LSD can be like a kind of coffee, with the difference that it doesn't narrow the mental bandwidth. And at that dose it won't destroy your psyche any more than caffeine would.

So you can ignore the macrodose gurus, and just feel free to explore psychedelics pretty much risk-free at the threshold, and go from there. Merely hypothesizing about one of the weirdest phenomena in existence will obviously only get you so far. In any case, I agree with @Mjäll and commend you for even considering challenging your perspective.


Thank you for your feedback. i’m fascinated by The idea of caffeine suppressing divergent thinking. I wonder if this is why, so long as I have had a night of good sleep, high dose caffeine gives me a strong mood lift and helps me focus on tasks where I would otherwise get bored and leave for later. caffeine also usually makes me more optimistic and sometimes helps me with problem-solving. interestingly, at high doses, it often increases my desire for thrillseeking whilst at the same time, making me more sensitive and responsive to potential risks. basically, it makes me more likely to do silly things like winding up obnoxious people on YouTube comments sections whilst at the same time, making me more alert and more likely to take precautions, for example, checking my windows and doors are locked when necessary, removing potential trip hazards to prevent others hurting themselves and ensuring that medicines and cleaning chemicals are locked away safely from children.
I definitely understand how caffeine can make a person less creative, but I wonder if that is subconsciously why I liked it so much.
 
sorry if I misunderstood this, did you say you had your life ruined by A large dose of mushrooms? if so, do you mind sharing your experience, describing your life before and after taking mushrooms.
 
Always respect a harm-reduction approach, both personal, and here as a public service announcement. So, thanks.

I would add that while there are reports of people’s lives being ruined by psychedelics, the mounting evidence in controlled trials does not show these adverse events.

So, OP, might you be talking about the MISuse of psychelics (i.e. overdosing, combining with other drugs, ignoring the known risk for people at risk for psychosis). In that case, misuse is misuse. Used properly, it’s difficult to document a death or life ruined, unless I’m mistaken. And in that case, your post could seem more like unnecessary fear mongering than harm reduction.

I say this respectfully.


No worries, I’m very glad we are having this discussion and challenging each other’s assumptions.
Regarding peoples lives being ruined by psychedelics, these are anecdotes I have read online, so of course there is no way of verifying them. However, those individuals claimed they were healthy, happy and in a good set/setting before the trip, only to come out of the other end with PTSD like symptoms.
 
Caffeine and awesome? I'm truly jealous. For me, caffeine is almost inactive, the only effect it has is inducing irritability and slight wakefulness when severely tired. Nothing more, no focus, no mood lift. But interestingly do I get similar reactions to Kratom, which is botanically related if I'm right. Kratom as well is very underwhelming for me independent of the dosage I take.
 
Are you mentally ill or do you have psychosis, mania, etc.? If so never use psychedelics.

Otherwise hashish or marijuana is in general very safe and psychedelic if you smoke, vape, or eat enough. Psilocybin mushrooms are also very safe, as is actual LSD.

But bear in mind psychedelic drugs are not for everyone. I have friends who tried LSD or shrooms, or even just strong Sativa marijuana or hashish once or twice and had bad trips, did not enjoy the experience, enjoy other drugs a lot more, etc.
honestly, i had schizophrenia as an early child and forgot about it. from what i remember my parents were told not even to bring this up to me as a teen. i think psychedelics kind of brought out my full time schizophrenia though. like if never tried drugs cause of my parents reminding me of my childhood and i played it safe and got married and had kids, i may have been comfortable with everything and not even had any more symptoms of schizophrenia. i have no idea, being a parent is the only case i can think of where i wouldn't be depressed and mentally ill though... but i'd say my mental illness or whatever you want to call it really brings a lot of joy to my life. if you have a good version of schizophrenia, it's great. drugs are great and you may even need less of them than normal people. lol...

i'm not sure who i'm trying to fool though. if my parents told me i was going to be schizophrenic as a teen, i probably would have wanted to use drugs even more to remember what the deal was... i think my parents were told not to tell about my schizoprhenia because the government gives schizophrenics a fair chance. like a lot of artists, musicians and probably inventors have it. seems like a positive, unless you get like banging noises and bad trips all the time. which then there's always medicating and not using drugs.... that will ruin your chance to have kids though, which is why i think a lot of people don't use drugs. so for some, it is better to be safe than sorry...
 
Interesting topic that doesn’t fit the name..
Thanks for the link! I've stumbled upon this topic of neuroinflammation before and found it interesting but never read about DMT and sigma in that relation.
 
Psychedelics are both potentially life improving, more so than many, really many things humans encountered trough existence and that, I think I can rightfully say is a fact. That experienced by many is reason that most in a big part ignore that they can cause problems for more people in general population that are not predisposed to mental issues, but misused them or even because of known or unknown unlucky factors leading to some kind of problem. Scope of people who got serious issues because of psychedelics in one way or another is almost impossible to estimate because of problems of legality, poly-drug use etc and also impossible to generalise either on individuals or certain groups using psychedelics in widely different ways and contexts. Still I believe that positive and neutral experiences and outcomes hugely outweight negative and problematic and would even more so if everyone using them would be more educated and aware of what they indulge in along with all the harm reduction applied as to drugs in general (taking only known doses of pure drugs in safe and proper set and setting).
 
We are open to discussions about most ideas here.
Im sorry if you felt that this may be triggering for some here.
Because its probably not at all.

You have the right to a opinion and i think most here respect/dont care if some stranger on the internet makes a thread about why he has decided not to trip.

Also you could be totally right, some people should stay away from drugs in general and others just shouldnt touch psychedelics.
We all have different perspectives already and some types of people do go bonkers if they change theirs.(Not just drugs but even trying to have a discussion with some people sends them of)
 
Psychedelics are both potentially life improving, more so than many, really many things humans encountered trough existence and that, I think I can rightfully say is a fact. That experienced by many is reason that most in a big part ignore that they can cause problems for more people in general population that are not predisposed to mental issues, but misused them or even because of known or unknown unlucky factors leading to some kind of problem. Scope of people who got serious issues because of psychedelics in one way or another is almost impossible to estimate because of problems of legality, poly-drug use etc and also impossible to generalise either on individuals or certain groups using psychedelics in widely different ways and contexts. Still I believe that positive and neutral experiences and outcomes hugely outweight negative and problematic and would even more so if everyone using them would be more educated and aware of what they indulge in along with all the harm reduction applied as to drugs in general (taking only known doses of pure drugs in safe and proper set and setting).
I fed my friends baby lsd for a good few years, now she is pissed because the kid can shoot lasers out of its eyes.
 
I hope what i have to say to the op here doesn't sound condecending, I would like salute his curiosity
and intrepidness in posting as a psychedelic skeptic in a jungle of ethusiasts among which I would count myself.

I would say the many replies to this thread have about covered it: 1.psychedelics aren't for everyone
2. follow your nose, if they terrify you or fill you with aversion, don't take them, end of story, don't waste your
precious short life thinking too much more about it. 3. psychedelics are like most important things in life, potentially life altering,
such as getting married, getting pregnant, going away to college, moving to a different locale, and when you think about it
essentially everything youdo and experience adds up and influences greatly your life.

As the Buddhists say, your ego is a delusion anyway,
why cling to it and try to protect from change and control it when you can't even prove it exists, "you" are the sum of everyone and
everything, no thing is discretely and concretely extant, probably least of all "your" mind, all things are in flux and interdependently influencing and creating
each other but nothing, not "your" ego, not psychedelic drug effects, nothing can be separated and pointed to and definitively isolated
from the rest. Meditate daily and understand this don't take my word for it.
Its unwise to say, I or that guy was ruined by psychedelics, its almost like scapegoating. To many people and the society itself is just
itchng for any pretext to dismiss and essentially cripple you so that they can make you live on their terms, stigmatizing
people who take psychedelics is just one of many ways. So screw those guys, who create the criteria upon which people
are judged as being fit for ther purposes, working a their banks or in their coporations or what have you you can't win, they'll
take you on for a few years then fire you in disgrace or whatever so if you want to explore psychdelics
do it, you likely won't be a big winner in life on their terms anyway.

But should you succumb to curiosity and take psychdelics anyway, depending
on dose, the way psychdelics are, you are likely to be very susceptible to suggestion regarding your pre-trip
judgements, beyond a certain dosage level, your judgements could balloon into some kind of unpleasantness
while under the effect of the drug, that is a characteristic of psychdelics, the name is Greek for mind-manifesting,
so what is on and in your mind will manifest more clearly, blatantly.
That said, small, half doses are very unlikely to cause you a problem, they are, I think in most peoples experience
simply bliss and hilarity and child like wonder causing, maybe some subtle visual effects, tracers and some alteration in the appearance of
of the things. Its not much more proound and life changing than going to a party and getting drunk.
I would wager though you are obviously curious and want to deleve into psychedelics but quite understandably and rightly very trepidacious.

I would add that I think your fear that psychedelics would damage you, that fear or anxiety is a product of a way that most people tend to
think when they try to rationalize and generalize to try and get their heads around things, particularly
when they don't have any experience of them, there is a strong tendency to form very rigid concepts about things and as thouh tjose thngs don't have a life of their
own and change independently of our assessments,
we like it to be as though the actual things/phenomena we are trying to come to grips with are one and the same as our
concepts about them. The problem is that the two are very separate.
And the tendency with most people is to force this notion of things that things do not change because you don't like
having an idea or judgement about things that changes, that's just too difficult to keep track of all the time , we want to nail things down and
say "Yeah, I know what thats about we're finished here, next!" that is what you are doing when
you say, "I have fucked myself up from that psychdelic i took last year, I'm broken. So for example, if I take acid
and I suddenly perceive a different world to how I used to, and I come down from my trip and feel bothered in subseqent days, weeks, months
by how i cannot revoke or somehow unsee what I saw or understood and I then formulate a judgement about myself and then tell others
about it maybe even a therapist, and those people agree that I have a problem, let's say my therapist tells me i am alienated and paranoid
because of an LSD trip, really it should be like, well, yeah so what, there are so many other things influencing and changing me every minute
making me more or less paranoid or alienated, why fixate on acid as bein the cause of that?

Ultimately I think you are just talking about fear of making a judgement on yourself that you have been messed up by some drug. But The reality would be different,
there are many other things at work, LSD is ultimately just some molecules on paper, or even in your body should you ingest them, it is the complex of all the things and factors in concert with it that
make for what happens during and after a trip, blaming yourself or the acid is a gross reductionistic distortion and inaccurate assessment and unfortnately one that our
society and peers and family will make all too often. Whatever happens from an acid trip is done when its done. Whatever you are stuck with when it is finshed will also be done with and finished.
The only problem is when we fixate and worry too much
and yes, that is not an insignifcant consideration, it could cause a problem. More than psychedelics actually being harmful is the stigmatization and the perception
by society about them which contributes much too our tendency I think to be influenced to think of them more negatively than we should,
yes, when people form the judgement about you that you are a say for example an acid freak, it says more about their ignorance
about and fear of what acid can show them than anything else, but there is no denying their ignorance and delusion can make a significant problem for you.
80% of humanity doesn't want to even look at their own mind and see whats in there,
let alone like the idea of some substance that you could take and that shit is laid bare like nobody's business, so they don't like it and they won't like you
and then you stand the chance of not liking yourself anymore because of how this substances altered your outlook. You could say so-and-so is a cigarette freak, and even though evryone knows
cigarettes harm the smoker and anyone exposed to the smoker,its pretty clear, thats not a big problem for most of them, they don't don't freak out about it like they do about a psychdelic
that person and his family might become ill and die rom the cigarettes, and they ave no problem, its cool, its your business, not mine, but with psychdelics its like
"Whoa Now hold on there! You get outta here with that mess! Whats wrong with you? Are you a psychopath! A schizo or something?", but with cigarettes it makes half of
the people in this world perhaps vaguely happy, one less asshole they figure, and plus there's money to be made from cigarettes, you can't make money from psychdelics to that level as few people
want to consume them the way they do cigarettes, gigarettes help the economy by golly! Think of all the drus and doctors that get work because of lung cancer etc.

The point being, it is actually your society's problem with themselves, their lack of fortitude as far as being able to stomach the truth of their own psyches, it is your own
rigid societal influenced concepts about psychedelics that stem from that society that are the barrier you face not the psychdelic itself if it is taken in proper dosages and following time tested safety prtocol
like not taking psychedelics when you have problems in your life, taking them in settings where you are comfortable and planning when you take it so that your trip does not overlap
with obligations and circumstances where such psychedelics are not appropriate. Some people feel the need for a sitter, personally I want to take care of myself when I am tripping,
but then I don't take huge doses and don't find that those contribute that much, I like to think I can get the messages and experiences that I need to on moderate doses. I would recommend you try
micro and then small doses, otherwise just drop it and move on, maybe meditation or lucid dreaming is something that would work for you.
 
Caffeine and awesome? I'm truly jealous. For me, caffeine is almost inactive, the only effect it has is inducing irritability and slight wakefulness when severely tired. Nothing more, no focus, no mood lift. But interestingly do I get similar reactions to Kratom, which is botanically related if I'm right. Kratom as well is very underwhelming for me independent of the dosage I take.


Everyone is different and I assume everyone has their favourite drug, whether they have discovered it or not. if I remember correctly, differences in the gene encoding, the adenosine receptor can affect the response to caffeine. also, for me, caffeine is only awesome when I’m not sleep deprived. if I’m severely sleep, deprived, caffeine only worsens my anxiety, depression and delirious state that arise from lack of sleep. on the other hand, with a good night sleep caffeine will lift my mood and help me to stop falling asleep when I am trying to focus.
Nevertheless, in the class of stimulants, caffeine really is considered very weak/insignificant. there is actually a thread somewhere created on my behalf to discuss the differences between caffeine and traditional psychostimulants, and from the responses, I concluded that they were to completely different classes of drug. yes, they are both central nervous system stimulants, but their mechanisms of action are completely different.
Also, just want to let you know that caffeine doesn’t produce this amazing mood lift all the time, rather it is a functional stimulant that just makes it easier to get out of bed in the morning. if ever I need a buzz, I will usually take quite a large dose all at once, usually in the form of energy drinks. sometimes, I would save up energy drinks my parents had bought me until I have, for example, three or four cans of sugar-free monster. then, on a day I am alone at home and have some peace and quiet, I would gulp down about two of these cans in under 15 minutes on an empty stomach in the morning. of course, I only do this if I had a good nights sleep before as this is vital to ensure I don’t become delirious but also to maximise theeuphoria.
With in an hour, I feel my tiredness lifting followed by a very intense buzz of stimulation/extremely strong desire to move about. this is far Beyond the functional dose and whilst I could probably get some good work done on it, i’d rather use the excitement to enhance my own recreation time.
I then consume the remaining energy, drink cans consecutively about an hour later. this leaves me stimulated for most of the day and I take advantage of this to move about and exercise as much as possible.

I’ve never tried real/traditional psychostimulants, but from what I have heard, they have potential to be extremely euphoric. I sometimes get an urge to try them, but then I am put off partly by my addictive personality but mostly bye The fact that most Psychostimulants have insanely long half lives and can be very physically and mentally taxing.

Don’t worry if caffeine doesn’t work for you, there are some who cannot touch caffeine whatsoever due to extreme sensitivity. also, as I mentioned earlier, there are some major benefits to living without caffeine including decreased anxiety and more stable energy levels. however, there may be another functional stimulant that might suit you better, whether that be a cholinergic agent like nicotine or even be vitamin complex supplements.
 
I hope what i have to say to the op here doesn't sound condecending, I would like salute his curiosity
and intrepidness in posting as a psychedelic skeptic in a jungle of ethusiasts among which I would count myself.

I would say the many replies to this thread have about covered it: 1.psychedelics aren't for everyone
2. follow your nose, if they terrify you or fill you with aversion, don't take them, end of story, don't waste your
precious short life thinking too much more about it. 3. psychedelics are like most important things in life, potentially life altering,
such as getting married, getting pregnant, going away to college, moving to a different locale, and when you think about it
essentially everything youdo and experience adds up and influences greatly your life.

As the Buddhists say, your ego is a delusion anyway,
why cling to it and try to protect from change and control it when you can't even prove it exists, "you" are the sum of everyone and
everything, no thing is discretely and concretely extant, probably least of all "your" mind, all things are in flux and interdependently influencing and creating
each other but nothing, not "your" ego, not psychedelic drug effects, nothing can be separated and pointed to and definitively isolated
from the rest. Meditate daily and understand this don't take my word for it.
Its unwise to say, I or that guy was ruined by psychedelics, its almost like scapegoating. To many people and the society itself is just
itchng for any pretext to dismiss and essentially cripple you so that they can make you live on their terms, stigmatizing
people who take psychedelics is just one of many ways. So screw those guys, who create the criteria upon which people
are judged as being fit for ther purposes, working a their banks or in their coporations or what have you you can't win, they'll
take you on for a few years then fire you in disgrace or whatever so if you want to explore psychdelics
do it, you likely won't be a big winner in life on their terms anyway.

But should you succumb to curiosity and take psychdelics anyway, depending
on dose, the way psychdelics are, you are likely to be very susceptible to suggestion regarding your pre-trip
judgements, beyond a certain dosage level, your judgements could balloon into some kind of unpleasantness
while under the effect of the drug, that is a characteristic of psychdelics, the name is Greek for mind-manifesting,
so what is on and in your mind will manifest more clearly, blatantly.
That said, small, half doses are very unlikely to cause you a problem, they are, I think in most peoples experience
simply bliss and hilarity and child like wonder causing, maybe some subtle visual effects, tracers and some alteration in the appearance of
of the things. Its not much more proound and life changing than going to a party and getting drunk.
I would wager though you are obviously curious and want to deleve into psychedelics but quite understandably and rightly very trepidacious.

I would add that I think your fear that psychedelics would damage you, that fear or anxiety is a product of a way that most people tend to
think when they try to rationalize and generalize to try and get their heads around things, particularly
when they don't have any experience of them, there is a strong tendency to form very rigid concepts about things and as thouh tjose thngs don't have a life of their
own and change independently of our assessments,
we like it to be as though the actual things/phenomena we are trying to come to grips with are one and the same as our
concepts about them. The problem is that the two are very separate.
And the tendency with most people is to force this notion of things that things do not change because you don't like
having an idea or judgement about things that changes, that's just too difficult to keep track of all the time , we want to nail things down and
say "Yeah, I know what thats about we're finished here, next!" that is what you are doing when
you say, "I have fucked myself up from that psychdelic i took last year, I'm broken. So for example, if I take acid
and I suddenly perceive a different world to how I used to, and I come down from my trip and feel bothered in subseqent days, weeks, months
by how i cannot revoke or somehow unsee what I saw or understood and I then formulate a judgement about myself and then tell others
about it maybe even a therapist, and those people agree that I have a problem, let's say my therapist tells me i am alienated and paranoid
because of an LSD trip, really it should be like, well, yeah so what, there are so many other things influencing and changing me every minute
making me more or less paranoid or alienated, why fixate on acid as bein the cause of that?

Ultimately I think you are just talking about fear of making a judgement on yourself that you have been messed up by some drug. But The reality would be different,
there are many other things at work, LSD is ultimately just some molecules on paper, or even in your body should you ingest them, it is the complex of all the things and factors in concert with it that
make for what happens during and after a trip, blaming yourself or the acid is a gross reductionistic distortion and inaccurate assessment and unfortnately one that our
society and peers and family will make all too often. Whatever happens from an acid trip is done when its done. Whatever you are stuck with when it is finshed will also be done with and finished.
The only problem is when we fixate and worry too much
and yes, that is not an insignifcant consideration, it could cause a problem. More than psychedelics actually being harmful is the stigmatization and the perception
by society about them which contributes much too our tendency I think to be influenced to think of them more negatively than we should,
yes, when people form the judgement about you that you are a say for example an acid freak, it says more about their ignorance
about and fear of what acid can show them than anything else, but there is no denying their ignorance and delusion can make a significant problem for you.
80% of humanity doesn't want to even look at their own mind and see whats in there,
let alone like the idea of some substance that you could take and that shit is laid bare like nobody's business, so they don't like it and they won't like you
and then you stand the chance of not liking yourself anymore because of how this substances altered your outlook. You could say so-and-so is a cigarette freak, and even though evryone knows
cigarettes harm the smoker and anyone exposed to the smoker,its pretty clear, thats not a big problem for most of them, they don't don't freak out about it like they do about a psychdelic
that person and his family might become ill and die rom the cigarettes, and they ave no problem, its cool, its your business, not mine, but with psychdelics its like
"Whoa Now hold on there! You get outta here with that mess! Whats wrong with you? Are you a psychopath! A schizo or something?", but with cigarettes it makes half of
the people in this world perhaps vaguely happy, one less asshole they figure, and plus there's money to be made from cigarettes, you can't make money from psychdelics to that level as few people
want to consume them the way they do cigarettes, gigarettes help the economy by golly! Think of all the drus and doctors that get work because of lung cancer etc.

The point being, it is actually your society's problem with themselves, their lack of fortitude as far as being able to stomach the truth of their own psyches, it is your own
rigid societal influenced concepts about psychedelics that stem from that society that are the barrier you face not the psychdelic itself if it is taken in proper dosages and following time tested safety prtocol
like not taking psychedelics when you have problems in your life, taking them in settings where you are comfortable and planning when you take it so that your trip does not overlap
with obligations and circumstances where such psychedelics are not appropriate. Some people feel the need for a sitter, personally I want to take care of myself when I am tripping,
but then I don't take huge doses and don't find that those contribute that much, I like to think I can get the messages and experiences that I need to on moderate doses. I would recommend you try
micro and then small doses, otherwise just drop it and move on, maybe meditation or lucid dreaming is something that would work for you.

No worries, you didn’t come across as condescending at all, rather you made some very important points.
Firstly, I just want to clarify that I didn’t start this thread because I’m curious about psychedelics. Rather it’s because I wanted to see if there were others like me. my mind has long been made up, and I will never try psychedelics, but I wish all the best for those that do choose to try them or continue to use them. I would however, be interested in trying a pure entactogen/empathogen so long as it has no 5HT2A agonist effects. I’ve also been very interested in trying a powerful 5HT2A agonist as these are reportedly anxiolytic, promote deep sleep, have antidepressant affects and may improve cognition.
I agree with you that psychedelic users and psychedelics have long been misrepresented in the media, but at least in the UK, where I live, on a societal level, things have changed greatly. Large numbers of people from all walks of life have tried psychedelics and no one really looks down on psychedelic users. actually, people would probably be more interested and want to talk to a so-called acid freak so my predispositions are not really influenced by society. Actually, have you see my previous posts in which I mentioned how much I love nicotine and how I had a strange predisposition and desire to use it since childhood? interestingly, where I live, smoking and nicotine are being increasingly frowned upon. furthermore, my family and community would definitely not be happy If they found out I was using nicotine products. therefore, at least for me, I don’t believe societal influence is responsible for my aversion to psychedelics.

I do wonder, however, if nicotine actually has an anti-psychedelic effect, that is if nicotine actually reduces consciousness to some degree. What is your opinion on this?
 
OK, I gotchya, I see your angle there now, I was a bit puzzled, thought maybe you ought to be on coffee lovers forum or something. Not too many cigarette
lovers societies out there are there? Well cigars I suppose. In any case you are not going to go to prison for it, so its not that much of an forboten item.
Yeah, I assumed you were North American, I didn't pick up on the usual signals that a Brit was speaking, yeah, UK is full of much better informed
and trained people in terms of being able to reason and think critically than my own country, so I'll take your word for it that psychedlics are not frowned upon.
Perhaps too, because of my age i am thinking about past times, though psychedelics are still illegal everywhere so I can't say it has become completely acceptable yet.
I'm an American but have lived over in Asia for the last 30 years and the Brits you do meet here are much more reactionary, very few of them would like talkng to an "acid freak."
much less of them over here than the ones you meet when you actually go to the UK, so that also feeds into my bias, UK ex-pats are a stodgy bunch as are Americans ex-pats for that matter,

But large swaths of America are so Christian fundamentalist as to not be down with the idea of doing psychedelics or even the idea that their neighbors are doing them.
Rather a shame, they could have a chat with God or Jesus much like that one Church that is into DPT say DPT is a sacrament provided by God, and which is alledgedly and arguably the most hard core psychdelic there is, I think it has even DMT
beat, it sounds like DMT but wilder and hours longer in duration. They are the only church besides the Native American church. But I digress.

I don't have access to the chemical psychedelics here anyway, I wish I did, when the sources were not in prison as they now are, their websites and assets confiscated as of a few months ago,
I really was not so keen that i wanted to risk 25 years in prison or even the death penalty just to get some acid analog as is the punishment here for trafficking and having more than a couple of tabs
is deemed trafficking. They usually do not execute you , but the prison conditions are so bad being executed might be preferable to 25 years in a two meter by half a meter cell
shared with four other inmates. That said, we sometimes have loads of psychedelic mushrooms, Panaeoulus cyanecens, a very potent variety, that crop up in the thousands on our
property everyday for weeks when its damp and rainy and not too hot. Those are something else, a bit much but, interesting and rewarding enough that you
do feel the urge when they pop up, they look fantastic, like these little Vietnamese rice paddy worker hats or like little ufos and this awesome blue-grey tinge that is directly a result of the
psychoactive component which is very high with this strain and species in general.

I don't smoke cigarettes or otherwise consume nicotine, but I do smoke the occasional cigarette, especially when drunk in a social situation, it kin dof
gives me a lift, seems to clear a little bit of the fogginess you feel after a few hours of drinking fairly heavily. I would say alcohol is more of an anti-psychdelic
than nicotine. I enjoy drinking probably more than psychdelics actually. Of course the way they consume cannabis in Europe, mixed with tobbaco,
you tend to inhale and get a full taste of the effects of nicotine, no I wouldn't say its anti-psychedelic, there's a kind of
feeling like you are getting out of your body or about to pass out from the tobacco/nicotine, which can be a component of a psychedelic
experience. Of course, black tobacco, another and much stronger variety is often used with psychdelics and on its own as a kind of psychedelic
in just about every Native American traditional culture. That's what I hear from many Indian "doctors" healers that tobacco and I assume nicotine are not
used properly at all by westerners, they kind of roll their eyes and say "Yeah, you guys would turn it into one of those banal mechanical things you all are obsessed with doing that is almost
as compulsive and prosaic as biting your nails habitually and periodically." I haven't tried tobacco in a Native American style say with Ayahuasca or smoked for very intense
effects. I think it was used to stimulate clairvoyance and enable the smoker to monitor where animals could be hunted or the movements of enemy tribes or the white man was if i remember correctly.
I don't know, I think a good bowl of Malawi gold would do that for me however and without the nausea that nicotine brings. Cheers!
 
JHhOK, I gotchya, I see your angle there now, I was a bit puzzled, thought maybe you ought to be on coffee lovers forum or something. Not too many cigarette
lovers societies out there are there? Well cigars I suppose. In any case you are not going to go to prison for it, so its not that much of an forboten item.
Yeah, I assumed you were North American, I didn't pick up on the usual signals that a Brit was speaking, yeah, UK is full of much better informed
and trained people in terms of being able to reason and think critically than my own country, so I'll take your word for it that psychedlics are not frowned upon.
Perhaps too, because of my age i am thinking about past times, though psychedelics are still illegal everywhere so I can't say it has become completely acceptable yet.
I'm an American but have lived over in Asia for the last 30 years and the Brits you do meet here are much more reactionary, very few of them would like talkng to an "acid freak."
much less of them over here than the ones you meet when you actually go to the UK, so that also feeds into my bias, UK ex-pats are a stodgy bunch as are Americans ex-pats for that matter,

But large swaths of America are so Christian fundamentalist as to not be down with the idea of doing psychedelics or even the idea that their neighbors are doing them.
Rather a shame, they could have a chat with God or Jesus much like that one Church that is into DPT say DPT is a sacrament provided by God, and which is alledgedly and arguably the most hard core psychdelic there is, I think it has even DMT
beat, it sounds like DMT but wilder and hours longer in duration. They are the only church besides the Native American church. But I digress.

I don't have access to the chemical psychedelics here anyway, I wish I did, when the sources were not in prison as they now are, their websites and assets confiscated as of a few months ago,
I really was not so keen that i wanted to risk 25 years in prison or even the death penalty just to get some acid analog as is the punishment here for trafficking and having more than a couple of tabs
is deemed trafficking. They usually do not execute you , but the prison conditions are so bad being executed might be preferable to 25 years in a two meter by half a meter cell
shared with four other inmates. That said, we sometimes have loads of psychedelic mushrooms, Panaeoulus cyanecens, a very potent variety, that crop up in the thousands on our
property everyday for weeks when its damp and rainy and not too hot. Those are something else, a bit much but, interesting and rewarding enough that you
do feel the urge when they pop up, they look fantastic, like these little Vietnamese rice paddy worker hats or like little ufos and this awesome blue-grey tinge that is directly a result of the
psychoactive component which is very high with this strain and species in general.

I don't smoke cigarettes or otherwise consume nicotine, but I do smoke the occasional cigarette, especially when drunk in a social situation, it kin dof
gives me a lift, seems to clear a little bit of the fogginess you feel after a few hours of drinking fairly heavily. I would say alcohol is more of an anti-psychdelic
than nicotine. I enjoy drinking probably more than psychdelics actually. Of course the way they consume cannabis in Europe, mixed with tobbaco,
you tend to inhale and get a full taste of the effects of nicotine, no I wouldn't say its anti-psychedelic, there's a kind of
feeling like you are getting out of your body or about to pass out from the tobacco/nicotine, which can be a component of a psychedelic
experience. Of course, black tobacco, another and much stronger variety is often used with psychdelics and on its own as a kind of psychedelic
in just about every Native American traditional culture. That's what I hear from many Indian "doctors" healers that tobacco and I assume nicotine are not
used properly at all by westerners, they kind of roll their eyes and say "Yeah, you guys would turn it into one of those banal mechanical things you all are obsessed with doing that is almost
as compulsive and prosaic as biting your nails habitually and periodically." I haven't tried tobacco in a Native American style say with Ayahuasca or smoked for very intense
effects. I think it was used to stimulate clairvoyance and enable the smoker to monitor where animals could be hunted or the movements of enemy tribes or the white man was if i remember correctly.
I don't know, I think a good bowl of Malawi gold would do that for me however and without the nausea that nicotine brings. Cheers!


Thanks for that. sorry, in my previous post, I said I would like to try a very strong 5HT2A agonist, when I actually meant a 5HT2A antagonist.
Very true what you said about nicotine, it definitely sharpens the senses and the mind, increases alertness and produces strange body sensations. nicotine taken before bed can produce very strange dreams if you manage to actually get to sleep, and these dreams are very vivid. in that way, yes, nicotine has some psychedelic like effects. However, I feel that in other ways nicotine is opposite to psychedelics. For example, in my experience at least, A strong dose of nicotine makes me content and happy with where I am, kind of like I imagine an opioid to be. paradoxically to its alerting effect, nicotine also largely eliminates my sense of fear of the unknown. I first discovered this one time a few years ago when I was alone. whilst I don’t really believe in the supernatural, e.g. ghosts, haunting people, I would still get an eerie/creepy feeling and shivers down my spine whenever watching those weird ghostbusting programs where people claim their houses are really haunted. This was especially so when I was alone. One time whilst watching such a program, I began getting the shivers and goosebumps and the atmosphere was already eerie and dark. when I went to the bathroom, I remembered my father had left some very high nicotine e-cigarette liquid in his vape device, so I took quite a few hits of that. I did this because I was bored and wanted the nicotine rush, however, I unintentionally discovered that The Erie feeling one sometimes gets when alone had completely disappeared.
Also, the dreams I get if I manage to sleep after taking nicotine are sometimes very bizarre, but normally just extremely vivid and reflections of daily life.
I also noticed that nicotine seems to somehow suppress spirituality. basically, whilst nicotine can make me feel serene and tranquil, I strangely feel a sense of decreased connectedness, kind of the complete opposite of what I imagine psychedelics to be.
Do you have any thoughts on this?
 
To be fair, I suspect that most of the concerns about psychedelic safety apply to only a small subset of psychedelics.

Yes, many psychedelics can challenge your underlying perception of yourself, your community, the universe, and your relationships to all of these things. That can be confronting, challenging, disruptive, destabilizing, and an opportunity for growth.

Most psychedelics don't really do that very well, tbh. Materials like DOF, 5-MeO-DALT, 4-AcO-MALT, 4C-D, N,N-EPT, and countless others are unlikely to be challenging at all. Most people find that to be disappointing, and they're not especially popular in part because of that. If they don't challenge or transport, most people don't find them to be particularly valuable; as much affection as I have for DOF, I would never tell someone that they needed to experience it once in their life. Because, well, they don't. (caveat: psychedelics are unpredictable, even the mildest ones.)
 
You could also say these things about books or any number of things. A person might read a book about psychology, or Mein Kampf, or the Bible, and suddenly have a different perspective on life or consciousness. They may start speaking in ideas others might not understand and have a shift on how they look at life.

Books can be dangerous, too, even moreso than drugs.

It's all perspective.
I read les nuits fauves by Cyril Collard and was never the same again!
honestly, i had schizophrenia as an early child and forgot about it. from what i remember my parents were told not even to bring this up to me as a teen. i think psychedelics kind of brought out my full time schizophrenia though. like if never tried drugs cause of my parents reminding me of my childhood and i played it safe and got married and had kids, i may have been comfortable with everything and not even had any more symptoms of schizophrenia. i have no idea, being a parent is the only case i can think of where i wouldn't be depressed and mentally ill though... but i'd say my mental illness or whatever you want to call it really brings a lot of joy to my life. if you have a good version of schizophrenia, it's great. drugs are great and you may even need less of them than normal people. lol...

i'm not sure who i'm trying to fool though. if my parents told me i was going to be schizophrenic as a teen, i probably would have wanted to use drugs even more to remember what the deal was... i think my parents were told not to tell about my schizoprhenia because the government gives schizophrenics a fair chance. like a lot of artists, musicians and probably inventors have it. seems like a positive, unless you get like banging noises and bad trips all the time. which then there's always medicating and not using drugs.... that will ruin your chance to have kids though, which is why i think a lot of people don't use drugs. so for some, it is better to be safe than sorry...
It does not work this way. Even if you had never used any psychedelics or drugs something would have caused you to have a psychotic break.
 
I know this probably belongs in neuroscience and pharmacology, but I don’t think it’s worth starting a new thread about. we all know that the main target of classical psychedelics is no other than the 5HT2A receptor. it’s one of the main receptors researchers have been focusing on in the past decades, with the other one being the 5HT1A receptor. Unfortunately, due to my blindness, I can’t post links to studies but anyone who is interested can simply Google them. basically, the 5HT1A receptor seems to be somewhat anti-psychedelic if that’s even a thing. apparently, a famous researcher called Rick Strassman, An expert in psychedelics, especially DMT found that selectively blocking the 5HT1A receptor dramatically intensified the psychedelic effects of DMT. another unrelated study I read stated that fiveHT2A antagonism had almost identical effects to 5HT1A receptor agonism.

Actually, just changed my mind whilst writing this post, I may actually start a new thread about the psychology of serotonin receptors in the neuroscience and pharmacology forum.
However, does anyone have any ideas about what I’ve just said?
 
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