Miscellaneous Potential psychological harms of psychedelics, and why I will never try them!

[Neuroprotection]

G hello everyone. I know this is a very sensitive and emotive subject for some people, But is something I’ve been thinking about for a very long time and I feel it’s very important that we can discuss it in a respectful manner and develop our knowledge through exchanging opinions and possibly even personal experiences. i’ve always been fascinated by psychoactive substances especially by how their pharmacology influences their psychoactive effects and what this means for those under their influence. interestingly, there is one class of drugs that I grew to dislike the more I read about them. These are the hallucinogens, in particular the classical psychedelics(5HT2A antagonists). even at the age of 15 when I was most fascinated by psychedelics and was in love with the idea of a non-addictive yet very powerful psychoactive experience, I always got a feeling of nervousness and unease as well as depression, whenever reading about them. when I would hear people talking about their experience of psychedelics, I would feel some sense of creepy/eerie Energy, it’s really difficult to describe. these feelings have been reinforced over the years. The more I read about psychedelics, and their ability to alter consciousness and shatter perceptions, as well as dissolve the ego, The more I feel they can be very dangerous to the stability of one’s psyche. i’ve read several stories about psychedelic experiences ruining previously healthy peoples lives and leaving them questioning their reality to the point of considering suicide. others say they became deluded and stopped interacting with friends/family because they felt like they had acquired some special wisdom and was superior to them. below, I will list some of the opinions I have developed through my reading over the years in the hope that we can share our thoughts and have an informative discussion on an area of psychedelics I feel is somewhat taboo.

1) The emotional/Consciousness altering effects of psychedelics are far more profound and Play the biggest role in determining whether a trip is wonderful, horrifying or both. The sensory disturbances/hallucinations are less relevant.

2) psychedelics can cause long-term changes in perception and outlook, making things people once enjoyed, seem pointless or counter-productive.

3) psychedelics may cause some people to start speaking in terms other people can’t understand or find strange. i’m not talking about people under the influence of the drug, or those suffering from psychosis, rather I’m talking about ordinary people who after experiencing a Serotonergic psychedelic trip begin to understand the world very differently and this comes through in the way they speak about life, our purpose, etc. whilst this could be amazingly positive in some cases, for others, this could be disastrous and lead to severe psychological stress as I mentioned earlier.

There’s much more, I would love to mention, but I already have a habit of writing very long posts and this post will turn from an essay into a book.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I don't think those are generally considered taboo. Some people are definitely ignorant, but commonly people do not deny those phenomenons you described.
I just don't care too much and I think many others feel same
I used to averse off of psychedelics after several experiences because later I developed dissociative symptoms for unprocessed trauma and chronic major depression, and I knew weed and psychedelics can make that worse. While in theory it may seem pretty fucking bad...
Later I realized, particularly during psychotherapy, that while they are known to trigger such episodes or conditions, it is too straight-forward to reliably predict them "fucking me up bad". And they never did. Many of the mental states you describe are products of rather complex set of conditions.

Drugs overall are pretty unpredictable and pretty much always lead to countless brief or permanent changes in physical and mental status which are very hard to replicate and show causality by any scientific approach. I don't perceive psychedelics particularly bad in that matter, while sometimes definitely dramatic. While I know they may have caused some negative changes too, I can not look into it regretful at all. It is pretty much only class of drugs which has never really screwed me, but given amazing benefit and I am looking forward to my future trips.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

They are definitely not for everyone.

Respect your gut feelings !

 

[Neuroprotection]

I don't think those are generally considered taboo. Some people are definitely ignorant, but commonly people do not deny those phenomenons you described.
I just don't care too much and I think many others feel same
I used to averse off of psychedelics after several experiences because later I developed dissociative symptoms for unprocessed trauma and chronic major depression, and I knew weed and psychedelics can make that worse. While in theory it may seem pretty fucking bad...
Later I realized, particularly during psychotherapy, that while they are known to trigger such episodes or conditions, it is too straight-forward to reliably predict them "fucking me up bad". And they never did. Many of the mental states you describe are products of rather complex set of conditions.

Drugs overall are pretty unpredictable and pretty much always lead to countless brief or permanent changes in physical and mental status which are very hard to replicate and show causality by any scientific approach. I don't perceive psychedelics particularly bad in that matter, while sometimes definitely dramatic. While I know they may have caused some negative changes too, I can not look into it regretful at all. It is pretty much only class of drugs which has never really screwed me, but given amazing benefit and I am looking forward to my future trips.

Firstly, I want to apologise for any spelling mistakes and grammatical errors in my previous post. I am blind and using dictation on my phone to write these posts, so it’s difficult to know where exactly where the mistakes are. Furthermore, I’m having difficulty finding the edit function which would allow me to go back and correct my post.

You’re right, these topics aren’t taboo on a place like this where people are generally open-minded and respectful. when I describe these issues as sensitive/taboo, I was actually referring to groups of so-called psychedelic enthusiasts Who don’t want to listen to anyone else and insist psychedelics can never hurt anyone. they are the kind of people who would ridicule and blame the user for suffering any negative psychological effects. unfortunately, I think such people exist in every field. thanks anyway for your great feedback.

 

[Neuroprotection]

They are definitely not for everyone.

Respect your gut feelings !

I agree. I’m an extremely emotional person and whilst I have good emotional restraint (I keep my emotions inside), small things can still drastically affect my day. I also get very attached to places, Time periods/dates and events in which I had good experiences and constantly think about going back there. on top of this, my ego is very important to me. whilst I am an introvert, I still love making friends and my social interactions have a huge impact on my emotions, outlook and sense of purpose/place. I wonder if this is due to an overactive default mode network?

Brilliant advice about respecting one’s gut feelings. yes, gut feelings can sometimes be wrong, however, such strong feelings of aversion two psychedelics, at such a young age before I really understood anything is probably telling me something.

Interestingly, my favourite drugs are caffeine and nicotine, perhaps because they’re the only ones I’ve tried. what intrigued me about these drugs, nicotine in particular, is that my gut feelings towards them were extremely positive and I had very strong impulses to try them since childhood. I remember regularly waking up in the middle of the night when I was just nine years old and wishing I could get hold of some very strong nicotine products. nobody told me that nicotine could potentially be euphoric, yet I always imagined it to be so. when I finally did try nicotine at around 15 years of age, The euphoria felt strangely familiar, though I had never experienced it before. I wonder if the fact that One of my family members was a smoker had any impact.

 

[Mjäll]

Many people have an aversion toward psychedelics. Most people don't visit a drug forum detailing their aversion. That's quite interesting.

Your aversion to seriously mind-altering drugs and simultaneous attraction to legal and barely psychoactive drugs suggest you're very easily influenced by culture and social expectation.

I think that dismissing this category of drugs without trying even a low dose entails a low credibility. I think you could get away with trying it. Your default mode network won't be destroyed by a single low dose at an appropriate time. Isn't it a bit weird to have these strongly developed opinions about stuff that you refuse to experience?

Anyway it's interesting to hear a description of something that's rarely talked about despite being so prevalent.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

1) The emotional/Consciousness altering effects of psychedelics are far more profound and Play the biggest role in determining whether a trip is wonderful, horrifying or both. The sensory disturbances/hallucinations are less relevant.

2) psychedelics can cause long-term changes in perception and outlook, making things people once enjoyed, seem pointless or counter-productive.

3) psychedelics may cause some people to start speaking in terms other people can’t understand or find strange. i’m not talking about people under the influence of the drug, or those suffering from psychosis, rather I’m talking about ordinary people who after experiencing a Serotonergic psychedelic trip begin to understand the world very differently and this comes through in the way they speak about life, our purpose, etc. whilst this could be amazingly positive in some cases, for others, this could be disastrous and lead to severe psychological stress as I mentioned earlier.

You could also say these things about books or any number of things. A person might read a book about psychology, or Mein Kampf, or the Bible, and suddenly have a different perspective on life or consciousness. They may start speaking in ideas others might not understand and have a shift on how they look at life.

Books can be dangerous, too, even moreso than drugs.

It's all perspective.

 

[Pfafffed]

The more I feel they can be very dangerous to the stability of one’s psyche

I don't think that's a point of contention at all. In fact, providing a challenge to the stability of one's psyche is a quintessential element of many psychedelics. For many people, that's precisely the point.

Animals reinforce cognitive habits, habits, perspectives, and behaviors as we age. Sometimes those are helpful, sometimes they aren't. Psychedelics like psilocybin that are known for their ability to soften those patterns and provide new perspectives can be valuable for people that are stuck in unhealthy cognitive/emotional patterns. When addiction, depression, PTSD, or end of life anxiety are diminishing quality of life, many people have found value in shaking themselves out of the mental ruts that are causing them distress.

I'm not arguing that anyone should explore psychedelics, but I think it's important to recognize why many people have benefited from them despite some of the legitimate risks that you mentioned. It's a cost-benefit analysis

 

[Skorpio]

Caffeine is a top tier drug.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Are you mentally ill or do you have psychosis, mania, etc.? If so never use psychedelics.

Otherwise hashish or marijuana is in general very safe and psychedelic if you smoke, vape, or eat enough. Psilocybin mushrooms are also very safe, as is actual LSD.

But bear in mind psychedelic drugs are not for everyone. I have friends who tried LSD or shrooms, or even just strong Sativa marijuana or hashish once or twice and had bad trips, did not enjoy the experience, enjoy other drugs a lot more, etc.

 

[Neuroprotection]

You could also say these things about books or any number of things. A person might read a book about psychology, or Mein Kampf, or the Bible, and suddenly have a different perspective on life or consciousness. They may start speaking in ideas others might not understand and have a shift on how they look at life.

Books can be dangerous, too, even moreso than drugs.

It's all perspective.

Very interesting perspective. perhaps the only difference between psychedelics and books is that the impact of books/literature is probably far more predictable than that of psychedelics.

 

[Neuroprotection]

I don't think that's a point of contention at all. In fact, providing a challenge to the stability of one's psyche is a quintessential element of many psychedelics. For many people, that's precisely the point.

Animals reinforce cognitive habits, habits, perspectives, and behaviors as we age. Sometimes those are helpful, sometimes they aren't. Psychedelics like psilocybin that are known for their ability to soften those patterns and provide new perspectives can be valuable for people that are stuck in unhealthy cognitive/emotional patterns. When addiction, depression, PTSD, or end of life anxiety are diminishing quality of life, many people have found value in shaking themselves out of the mental ruts that are causing them distress.

I'm not arguing that anyone should explore psychedelics, but I think it's important to recognize why many people have benefited from them despite some of the legitimate risks that you mentioned. It's a cost-benefit analysis

I don't think that's a point of contention at all. In fact, providing a challenge to the stability of one's psyche is a quintessential element of many psychedelics. For many people, that's precisely the point.

Animals reinforce cognitive habits, habits, perspectives, and behaviors as we age. Sometimes those are helpful, sometimes they aren't. Psychedelics like psilocybin that are known for their ability to soften those patterns and provide new perspectives can be valuable for people that are stuck in unhealthy cognitive/emotional patterns. When addiction, depression, PTSD, or end of life anxiety are diminishing quality of life, many people have found value in shaking themselves out of the mental ruts that are causing them distress.

I'm not arguing that anyone should explore psychedelics, but I think it's important to recognize why many people have benefited from them despite some of the legitimate risks that you mentioned. It's a cost-benefit analysis

Of course, I understand that the effects of psychedelics which terrify me are those same effects which have changed peoples lives for the better. to someone who first sees my post, it’s easy to assume that i’m simply saying no one should try psychedelics. I know you probably didn’t believe that, but I just wanted to reaffirm this for others. I also make this post in the hope that people know it is okay to have a healthy fear of psychedelics and maybe even to decide not to try them. thankfully, everyone here has been open minded and I love hearing peoples perspective on such a profound and deep subject.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Caffeine is a top tier drug.

Is that a joke or do you really love caffeine?
Personally, caffeine has been a miracle for me, making it much easier for me to get out of bed and function normally every morning. apparently humans build up almost complete tolerance to the effects of caffeine within a few days of regular consumption. whilst it is true that caffeine loses its magic/buzz overtime, it can be easily remedied by slightly increasing the dose. during the month of Ramadan, when Fasting, all day is obligatory for me as a muslim, I choose to refrain from all caffeine for the whole month to avoid sleeping problems. during this caffeine free period, I do notice many benefits once the withdrawals have passed, including slightly decreased anxiety, better appreciation of food and increased appetite, as well as significantly deeper sleep if I choose to nap in the day. people have asked me why I don’t just quit caffeine altogether and I have considered it. However, I always end up going back to it because without caffeine, it takes me several hours to become fully alert, whereas when consuming it, I can become fully alert in less than an hour and have the time to enjoy the quieter early part of the day.

 

[Opana313]

I think you're slowly taking steps to instead of reinforceing But to put your guard down, finding yourself more in tune with your curiosity and your dang ego is saying no no no NEVER...could it be true? Oh my the irony you will feel when or if you decide to try the experience.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Are you mentally ill or do you have psychosis, mania, etc.? If so never use psychedelics.

Otherwise hashish or marijuana is in general very safe and psychedelic if you smoke, vape, or eat enough. Psilocybin mushrooms are also very safe, as is actual LSD.

But bear in mind psychedelic drugs are not for everyone. I have friends who tried LSD or shrooms, or even just strong Sativa marijuana or hashish once or twice and had bad trips, did not enjoy the experience, enjoy other drugs a lot more, etc.

No, thankfully I don’t have any mental illnesses, however, I am extremely emotional and I get very attached to past events. at the same time, I have a laid-back attitude to lifestyle, have some thrillseeking tendencies and am extremely lazy, though I’ve learnt to cover that up a bit. aside from my instincts and personality pushing me away from psychedelics, I’ve also read anecdotes of people with my laid-back attitude completely changing after a trip and becoming terribly anxious, developer mistrust of reality and those around them or develop a sense of connectedness with inanimate objects, animals and the universe, which they themselves described as uncomfortable.
Yes, I’ve not tried any hard drugs, I’ve not even tried cannabis or alcohol. however, my favourite drug by far is nicotine because it is not only euphoric and stimulating, but I also find that it very mildly suppresses negative emotions in the long term. maybe I’m overthinking it, but would you say that nicotine and maybe even caffeine, as well as other psychostimulants are somewhat the opposite of psychedelics? that is, do you feel that they can suppress consciousness/Connectedness to some extent?

 

[Neuroprotection]

Many people have an aversion toward psychedelics. Most people don't visit a drug forum detailing their aversion. That's quite interesting.

Your aversion to seriously mind-altering drugs and simultaneous attraction to legal and barely psychoactive drugs suggest you're very easily influenced by culture and social expectation.

I think that dismissing this category of drugs without trying even a low dose entails a low credibility. I think you could get away with trying it. Your default mode network won't be destroyed by a single low dose at an appropriate time. Isn't it a bit weird to have these strongly developed opinions about stuff that you refuse to experience?

Anyway it's interesting to hear a description of something that's rarely talked about despite being so prevalent.

Very interesting you picked up on the point of the drugs I like(Caffeine and nicotine). however, legality/social acceptance is nothing to do with my preference for them, I actually really enjoyed the experience, especially that of nicotine.

 

[Chris Timothy]

Caffeine is awesome. Oddly enough sometimes there's critique on caffeine from the psychedelic corner. It's understandable from the point of view of the creative. In psychological tests, psychedelics clearly increase creativity. Yet caffeine, despite increasing productivity, it does so at the cost of lowering divergent thinking, which underlies creativity. So some aversion from that POV is to be expected.

I've had multiple psy-fans push me back on caffeine usage. But the link between caffeine and longevity is firmly established. Unless we start seeing similar life-extension results for microdosing mushrooms or LSD once acceptance surpasses the longitudinal research threshold - which to be honest we conceivably could - it's a busted argument.

Yes, you're absolutely right to be fearful of psychedelics. It's no overstatement to say I've had my life ruined by deciding to take a decent dose of mushrooms. You simply don't know you're the type who shouldn't take psychedelics until you take them and realize you shouldn't have.

Virtually any other method of mind-altering is gradual in comparison. But around psychedelics there's this culture of the "heroic dose". Many people have had an amazing experience on decent doses, and want to spread that love, cringing at the thought of pussyfooting it. But it's a chemical, it's a weight, it's metrical. It can be as gradual as anything. 12 micrograms of acid physically feels really close to a stiff cup of coffee. Yet even in this minutely tiny realm you can already notice how LSD can be like a kind of coffee, with the difference that it doesn't narrow the mental bandwidth. And at that dose it won't destroy your psyche any more than caffeine would.

So you can ignore the macrodose gurus, and just feel free to explore psychedelics pretty much risk-free at the threshold, and go from there. Merely hypothesizing about one of the weirdest phenomena in existence will obviously only get you so far. In any case, I agree with @Mjäll and commend you for even considering challenging your perspective.

 

[Pfafffed]

Caffeine is my favorite drug bar none. Bonus points for the fact that it's life affirming, slows age related cognitive decline, and is typically found in healthy, antioxidant-rich plants.

 

[cosmosmariner]

Always respect a harm-reduction approach, both personal, and here as a public service announcement. So, thanks.

I would add that while there are reports of people’s lives being ruined by psychedelics, the mounting evidence in controlled trials does not show these adverse events.

So, OP, might you be talking about the MISuse of psychelics (i.e. overdosing, combining with other drugs, ignoring the known risk for people at risk for psychosis). In that case, misuse is misuse. Used properly, it’s difficult to document a death or life ruined, unless I’m mistaken. And in that case, your post could seem more like unnecessary fear mongering than harm reduction.

I say this respectfully.

 

[Skorpio]

Is that a joke or do you really love caffeine?
Personally, caffeine has been a miracle for me, making it much easier for me to get out of bed and function normally every morning. apparently humans build up almost complete tolerance to the effects of caffeine within a few days of regular consumption. whilst it is true that caffeine loses its magic/buzz overtime, it can be easily remedied by slightly increasing the dose. during the month of Ramadan, when Fasting, all day is obligatory for me as a muslim, I choose to refrain from all caffeine for the whole month to avoid sleeping problems. during this caffeine free period, I do notice many benefits once the withdrawals have passed, including slightly decreased anxiety, better appreciation of food and increased appetite, as well as significantly deeper sleep if I choose to nap in the day. people have asked me why I don’t just quit caffeine altogether and I have considered it. However, I always end up going back to it because without caffeine, it takes me several hours to become fully alert, whereas when consuming it, I can become fully alert in less than an hour and have the time to enjoy the quieter early part of the day.

It is the only drug I have no qualms being addicted to for the rest of my life. It makes me more outgoing and gives me a little pep, but not enough to cause my doses to rise even over decades of continuous use.

Weed is a close second, but it honestly doesn't fit as well in my life for using daily without a thought.

I regularly have a beer or cocktail at the end of most days, and do drink to excess maybe once or twice a week, but I am not deluded that it isn't toxic or that there is a risk of life altering addiction.

Nicotine is very nice, and I have long stretches on oral nicotine, but it will likely shorten my lifespan/increase cancer risk (nicotine is pro-carcinogenic via direct and indirect mechanisms, even in its pure state).

Low doses of amphetamine seem pretty easy to control, but its hyperfocus can kind of make me less social and spontaneous.

Psychadelics are quite nice, and self limiting, but I don't have the desire to trip more then say yearly, mainly due to physical discomfort.

Ketamine is wonderful, but addictive and fairly bad for the urinary system which means I need to be strict about monthly use.

Cocaine is harmful enough that I use it monthly or less, and it is quite moreish, so I really only get half gram amounts to limit idly taking bumps.

Opioids are either all or nothing for me, so I try and avoid them as best possible, mainly going on runs with kratom when sick (which usually ends up taking a week or two to decide yo quit). I find full agonist opioids too addictive to allow myself to use.

Benzodiazepines aren't really euphoric, but they can make me really irresponsible (especially research benzos), and even taking once or twice a week makes my baseline anxiety greater. I am deeply afraid of dependence as well. I don't look for them and use them maybe once a year when they turn up.

Mdma doesn't really agree with me, so I don't take it more than once every few years.

While I use a rather large variety of drugs, there is nothing which fits into my life as well as caffeine.