poppy seed tea withdrawal timeline

[coolname]

I'm doing this in the hope that it will help me stay on the right track. Found out about PST (poppy seed tea) back in March when I was desperate for a painkiller during a severe flame up in my back. When I returned from summer work in August I got back on the PST monster train and have been using pretty regularly since. I'm sick of it and here are my reasons for quiting:

--it's getting expensive, I'm unemployed, and it's a complete waste of money to spend about $10/day on self-destruction
--it's too much of a ritual which takes up too much time, a huge distraction
--it's turning me into a person I don't want to be... PST seems mild compared to oxycodone or even vicodin in terms of profoundly altering your personality over long-term use, however, even the slightest alteration is not worth it as it prevents you from growing spiritually
--in relation to the previous comment... it's keeping me from meditating and growing spiritually since meditating while high on opioids is ineffective

Most of all, I feel like a LOSER, can't respect myself, feel like a cheat. I have spend 2 other times withdrawing mainly from tranquilizers (xanax). The worst stuff on the planet!! I know this will be easier than tranquilizer withdrawal as I have made it a few times to the 3rd day while trying to withdraw so I take huge solace in that but I will not do this entirely cold turkey either because going through that level of pain can lengthen the duration of PAWS and I need to focus on getting a job right now.

I'm not using NA anymore, I got tired of the preaching... but it has helped me a lot last year when i attended.. the things i learned. "just for today" is more like "just for the next 5 minutes" sometimes. I was even told by an NA person that tapering your drugs use is still "using" since you're still technically ingesting the drug.... I can't stand the black and white thinking... you are NOT using if you are not getting high and you are doing it to STOP using it. That's why I can't stand NA, the black and white little rules. I have to keep reminding myself, nevertheless, that it's OK for me to take some PST if I have to. can you tell my ambiguouty towards NA? It's like an annoying brother.

Because of my drug use history the only health insurance I'm qualified for is "high risk" insurance through the government, it's strictly health insurance, not health care, since I have to pay some shitty medicaide qualitifed doctor almost the full fee of a visit. So I get not medical help, not that I did last time either yet I'm still being punished by insurance companies for going to outpatient rehab after I finished withdrawals since that treatment put me under the "high risk category". Yay Obamacare! also I'm not a stupid or too poor american who'll walk around without insurance like an idiot looking to get himself into debt. I'm a 26 year old woman with a future ahead of me, not debt, and I'm not interested in being completely irresponsible anymore so I pay the $160/month for health insurance which doesn't even give me anything but peace of mind, oh well... thankfully i have weed and I'm trying to exercise. Also, I'm getting off real easy!! This is no oxycodone or vidocin or heroin... thank god!!!!! this shouldn't be too bad physically... but it's still gonna suck I kno.w

Ok, enough background...

Last time I took it recreationally was December 1.

December 1: took enough to get high but was having stomach problems (probably from the PST... it's messing up my GI tract I think, and I have something which resembles cyclic vomting syndrome already) so drank it slowly and didn't get high. Took 4 packets of z seeds, for a total of 32oz.
December 2: didn't take anything but went for a jog. smoked lots of weed. the withdrawals were really starting to kick in at the end of the day... i started getting semi diareah (gross info but that's your problem if you're reading this). strangely enough, no chills!!! just GI issues... I think it must be the weed.

Today:
December 3: woke up last night several times, smoked a bunch of weed throughout the night to help me eat some early breakfast. I'm having really bad diareah still. It's like I have 2 pissers! Even after taking 2 packages (16oz) of seeds I'm still having diareah!! I don't want to take that loperamide stuff.. I don't know why, i feel grossed out by it, but I might have to. I probably will... god, 1pound of seeds and still diarhea!! I even felt high off those seeds, they at least let me eat and took away the mental feelings. I'm just shocked i still have the runs... maybe it's a virus? screw that i never get sick.

K, wish me luck

Oh, also, after reading other people saying loperamide does not get you high... god people are so dumb. unless you try it how do you know?!?!?!?! everyone thinks their not only a comedian these days, but also chemists!! check this link out that proves the lopermide does get you high!!! enogh of the battles, i can't believe no one else hasn't posted anything about this. god i love you little retards!!!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7438696

 

[Sepher]

Oh, also, after reading other people saying loperamide does not get you high... god people are so dumb. unless you try it how do you know?!?!?!?! everyone thinks their not only a comedian these days, but also chemists!! check this link out that proves the lopermide does get you high!!! enogh of the battles, i can't believe no one else hasn't posted anything about this. god i love you little retards!!!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7438696

Where does your link prove loperamide gets you high? They give 60mg loperamide ( an enormous dose ) to subjects and in most cases it had even less subjective effect than 96mg codeine base ( a tiny dose even for those with no tolerance). Only just over half got any subjective effects at all, effects which may be entirely different to the feel of a high, they didn't see fit to state what the subjective effects actually were in the abstract, most liked it little or not at all and fewer identified it as dope than those who were given low dose codeine. The study shows it is not recreational and has next to potential as a drug of abuse.

Good luck on quitting BTW. Dunno what your hang up is about loperamide ( cos it's a med for the shits? So what, you got the shits anyways! ) but I would highly recommend it in preference to more PST to relieve your symptoms. Totally self-defeating if you're aiming at detox.

 

[motherofearth]

I think a bulk of the people on this site have first hand experience taking lopermide and that is why they state that it can't get you high. The question can be flipped: if you have no experience taking it how can you state that it does? Even the article you cited stated among people w/ history of illicit opiate use (but not currently addicted) the effect was negligible and "not liked." The end of the article clearly states the potential for addiction and abuse is low. I will count myself as flabbergasted if you take the loperamide and return to tell us you felt anything close to a buzz from it. More than likely, it will stop that pesky diarrhea you are experiencing.

Also, I don't see the reason for the open hostility while you are appealing for feedback and help, but then, life is a mystery....

 

[coolname]

I'm not a mean person, I'm can be pretty blunt though and it doesn't come off well via writing so sorry folks if I seem mean!! I'm also just feeling like shit too.

So an update:

I took 4mg of loperamide, and still can't plug up the shitter, hah. So I took another 4mg, for a total of 8mg.

I feel kinda happy so far w/ my progress on the job search today. actually getting some stuff done. I need to find something ASAP cuz I can't live in the suburbs anymore. my parents are TOO NICE, they make everything so freaking easy for me. it makes me feel horrible and helpless. enough!!

I'm going on a run now, will toke up before to give myself the energy. This morning was the first in 2 weeks where I wasn't like, "fuck, another day!!!" instead felt like... c'mon girl, you can do this!!!

I'm excited to be getting clean again!!~! One of the best parts is how real reality gets when you're clean... colors are birghter, edges are sharper, and you don't have to think "is this the drug?!". thank god i'm not one of those super depressed miserable people who can't not be clean!!! i used to be like that but am SOOOOOO grateful I'm not in that category anymore. otherwise i wouldn't be doing this alone like this!! and with maybe the help of you bluelighters!! who are a cool group... really, you guys are nice online sorry if i come off mean...

Also, to address motherofearth and super, I am saying that the link proves that you can get high off this drug. if you can do it at 60mg, then if you double it who knows?? even if it's a tiny high, it's still high. the ability for it to tweak is there, rigth??????? that was my point. sure it doesn't resolve the whole question of how high you can get... which is something i hope never happens to me!!!

i really hope i'm not one of those who likes loperamide!!! god that would suck... i read some really loserville stories online, peopel abusing the drug. that's even worse than pst... but that's just my addict mind speaking cuz all addictions S-U-C-K!!!

 

[motherofearth]

Here is a thread on loperamide: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/296086-Loperamide

The overwhelming consensus is that it will not get you high. Especially after an addiction to any other opiate, even PST. A lot of people were citing potentates as being required to even force a little of the loperamide through the BBB and glean the slightest euphoria. I have used it numerous times to come off of morphine and heroin withdrawals and never felt any euphoria or lasting urges to use it once I finished kicking. That's my experience(s).

I think it is a great sign you are able to look for jobs, go running, and generally feel excited about getting clean again. These things are rare for me when I am kicking, if I'm not using suboxone that is. Just stay focused and know you are just about through the worst of it. It only gets better form here.

 

[RobotRipping]

loperamide can get you high if you use it with black pepper or omeprazole. That's what made my withdrawal so easy. Now i'm tapering the lope and in a week i'm clean from opiates.

 

[coolname]

i think the loperamide might be working.......

just came back from a run... i'm sooo happy i can go running!! something i wasn't able to do last time i withdrew from a drug cocktail last year..... this is way easier. but i've never had the shits like this omg it's horrible!!!

OK, the lope'y'dope'nopy is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i took 8mg total today and it did it!!!!!!!!! that must mean my withdrawals can't be that bad

omg i'm so sick of this stuff, so sick of it.

 

[coolname]

love it how when I made one small mention about loperamide everyone only comments on that. i kinda did that on purpose-to see how many responses I'd get about it. hahahahaha

 

[paranoid android]

Lopermide is a must when it comes to opiate withdrawal. It does help stop the diarrhea and Ive been addicted to high doses of IV hydromorphone and morphine. That's all it does it does not effect the CNS for me at all even at doses of say 12-16mg's a few times a day.

 

[motherofearth]

love it how when I made one small mention about loperamide everyone only comments on that. i kinda did that on purpose-to see how many responses I'd get about it. hahahahaha

Well when you attach an article and words like "retards" to it, it sort of sets it aside from the rest of your post....

 

[coolname]

incredible. infukcing incredible. I'm shitting like everything. the loperamide maybe worked for an hour, that may also have been influenced by my run. This is not good. I took 12mg total, and 4 mg just now for a GRAND total of 16mg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! huh????? it's not like my withdrawals are bad enough to justify this level of GI trouble. And my stomach is doing inversions too!!

thinking about going out to buy something for my GI stuff, like pedia light. pedialite? sp? getting worried that my electrolytse may be getting messed with. i feel drained too. whenever i drink anything it comes out like 10minutes later!! ahhh!!!!!

this is the price i pay

 

[coolname]

got the pedialite, grape flavored. i thought it was medicinal in taste, drank it. maybe feel a lil less drained?

also, i got 48 more pills of immodium for $12.00.... i guess that's a lot but i didn't want to drive all the way into town to get a better deals and need some for tonite........


uff. i think the pills are actually working, just have to take more and more consistently.

i am feeling, for the first time in a few weeks, excited for the future..... maybe it's the exercising.

anyways, this is phenomenal!!!!!!! i can't believe that i don't have any chills like i have every other time i've dried withdrawaing from pst. i think it's the weed actually, cuz last time i attempted this i also had a lot of weed and didn't feel much. except this time i have massive diareah!!!!!!!! super werido!!!

 

[coolname]

hey everyone....

so I feel like soooooooooooooooooo much better than i have in a looooooooooooooooong time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i actually feel some kind a of a manic swing comin upon me and i'm super excited i hope i go crazy this time. i'm tired of bein depressed, sleeping 10hours a day, and then still feeling like i could nap for eternity. maybe the st. john's wort is doing its thing! hah!!!! hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah

lololololololol

 

[King J]

To the OP: You are obnoxious. Someone had to say it.

 

[coolname]

I can tell you guys on bluelight don't really like me, but that's no matter because this is helping me regardless of what you all think.

So the runs have stopped, but I'm nto sure if that's because i'm taking a stronger batch? that's the problem w/ PST, you can't sandarize doses. So what I did for the 3-unit round (if you're confused by what I wrotie initially it's because when I first started the taper I was using a different brand which features z of poppy seeds, the brand I'm using now has 4.4oz in unit),... what I did for the 3 unit round is I went to the store and bought 3 days worth of units. So I bought 9 units in advance with the intention of dosing each one as part of a group of 3 units. 3 units a day for 3 days. Before that it was 4 for 3 days. Initially I was going to quit almost cold turkey--using only when symptoms became unbearable. However, the new method of getting off this stuff satisfies several aspects of which the first is lacking.
It gives your time a sense of structure. People like me, who abuse drugs, cannot have much structure in their lives if they are chasing a little demon through their mornings, noons, and nights. What better to provide a sense of structure than by structuring use of the drug itself? You are not making any decisions along the way, the decisions have all been made in advance so there is nothing for you to have to contemplate on dosing when you are in the critical vulnerability of withdrawal. Buying doses in advance is no problem, since you KNOW you will have to take them anyways and going to the store in advance helps reduce the frequency of the ritual of using. The ritual of using in this drug is very complex, there's the store, the car, the ziplog bags... there are a lot more things tied in with the use of the drug than with a pill (with a pill though all the places, people, and things you run into are much deeply embedded along with your using pattern). My own experiences with substance withdrawal rings true with this idea that getting rid of the entire using ritual can be as hard as giving up the drug itself. So using the tapering method helps eradicate the ritual which will greatly aid in long-term mainteinance as well. One may mention that having spare units of the seeds just lying around the house waiting to be used at any moment is unwise, but it can be argued that this a component of the challenge that cannot be removed and which does not undermine the point and potential rewards of the challenge of buying in advance. Buying in advance also practically guarantees that what your next few doses will be consistent.
It's very important that the dosing be cosistent and which I'm %100 sure that that has been a factor the high I get after drinking the latest doses. I feel like I shouldn't be getting a high from this stuff if I'm tapering........ It's definitely a strong unit that the last batches I was doing... like 33% stronger.. I feel like I'm cheating but I will "go by the rules" and not tweak the method. Part of "the sacred taper rules" is to NEVER change them during their implementation, otherwise you greatly increase your chances of failure. I respect the Allmighty RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyways, I'm going to a hip-hop concert tonight and it would be nice to get high. I'm considering taking the 3 units I'm supposed to take tomorrow tonight... I know it's probably not the best idea, and I'm also just SICK of the TASTE of that stuff, but it would make the experience a lot more fun!! Plus, tomorrow isn't that far off anyways.

 

[Sepher]

LOL @ don't really like you. That would be reading too much into most replies. OK, the person who said you're obnoxious might not like you all that much, or they may actually have been fairly neutral as to like and dislike of you personally, more a comment on behaviour seen in your less than perfect start. No matter, we all do daft stuff without thinking or really intending to, these things will be forgotten.

The ritual of using in this drug is very complex, there's the store, the car, the ziplog bags... there are a lot more things tied in with the use of the drug than with a pill (with a pill though all the places, people, and things you run into are much deeply embedded along with your using pattern). My own experiences with substance withdrawal rings true with this idea that getting rid of the entire using ritual can be as hard as giving up the drug itself.

Absolutely. Like you say the paraphernalia of a particular ROA and the stages of preparation become ritualised, they're a part of the addiction too. IV users and needle fixation for instance. Very, very powerful, for many the drive to shoot up remains even when they've flicked the switch in their heads as far as abandoning the DOC itself is concerned. There are even therapies designed to address it, extinction therapy for instance designed to break the association between ROA and reward.

 

[coolname]

ROA means....? ritual of association... sorry I can't figure it out!

First of all I have to announce that I saw DJ SHADOW LIVE in my hometown........ last night!!!! And if he is stopping by in yours definitely go out to see him, it was a G_R_E_A_T show and I'm not just saying that because I love him. one of those shows where when you left normal gas station reality revealed itself as the contrived disguisting thing it is.

 

[coolname]

also, Sepher, thx for the kind words... ya i know my personality can be grating on people sometimes, and then they get to know me and we're all friendS!! hahaha.

so i havent' given an update on the progress of my taper!!!!!! like everyone is dying to know so bad anyways, right? so it's been goign well.

i'm down to 3 units, it's my second day of being on 3. I have one more day left of Mr. 3's, and then I reduduce down to 2. 2 I say!!

for now though, 3 a day keeps the withdrawals away!!! hahahahahaha. i wrote in my post that i was thinking of taking more last night for the show..... i kinda wish i had now.... cuz i was feeling terribly self-conscious for some reason. maybe because i was witihout my friend PST? probbably... and that's why i wanted to go especially with out anything (except weed which makes me more selfconscious), to experience life in all its sober glory!

 

[Sepher]

ROA = Route Of Administration. Snorting, smoking, IV and the like. Well jelly 'bout DJ Shadow. Seminal influence on EDM, good as responsible for an entire genre with his own stuff and the work with James Lavelle / Mo' Wax. Top drawer.

 

[RobotRipping]

PST withdrawals last forever, i think mine are done now, no loperamide today and i'm fine, though a bit backed up. generally 12-24mg keeps me well for 12 hours or so. I'm having derealization and depersonalization issues though which are probably unrelated but there.

I tapered to half my preferred dose switched to kratom and PST once a day each then all the way to kratom 3x a day and to lope as needed and i am done, no cravings really (well sometimes) and no relapses (too hard to get opiates for me unless i want to risk getting ripped off or robbed). It was pretty easy all things considered. I miss my old friend PST but ultimately it made things worse. It kept giving me this bloated disgusting feeling and now it's gone. I've also dropped tons of weight that i gained while on PST. There are many benefits to quitting that shit. I also don't sleep 14 hours a day anymore which is great.