Mental Health Please describe how autism affects you personally - autistic people only, not family

you misunderstood what I meant by uniform.

The clothes do not have to be a telltale sign. A specific shirt and jeans can absolutely do the trick.
A few specific outfits you will only wear for work, not a neon worker uniform.

What befuddles me is that medical/social workers where you live don't have to wear masks at all times while being with their patients.

I'm supposed to wear a mask, and my support workers do, but I have an exemption for wearing it due to some of my conditions which was signed by my doctor.

I'm also not classed as medical or professional, I'm purely social support so I'm not in physical contact with my clients at all. When I got COVID a month or so ago I wore a mask for the following week after I was cleared from isolation just to be safe, but in general I'm exempt from mask wearing legally and therefore don't have to do so. If I had any clients who requested I wear one for their safety I would, but all my clients are under 30 and in good health with no immunocompromised health conditions.

I just wear whatever I happen to be wearing on that day to work. I generally wear the same trousers every day since I have a few pairs of them, and just alternate through a number of shirts.

I don't have the energy to do more washing than necessary and my shifts are only 3.5 hours long at the longest so it doesn't really seem worth it at all.
 
I'm supposed to wear a mask, and my support workers do, but I have an exemption for wearing it due to some of my conditions which was signed by my doctor.

I'm also not classed as medical or professional, I'm purely social support so I'm not in physical contact with my clients at all. When I got COVID a month or so ago I wore a mask for the following week after I was cleared from isolation just to be safe, but in general I'm exempt from mask wearing legally and therefore don't have to do so. If I had any clients who requested I wear one for their safety I would, but all my clients are under 30 and in good health with no immunocompromised health conditions.

I just wear whatever I happen to be wearing on that day to work. I generally wear the same trousers every day since I have a few pairs of them, and just alternate through a number of shirts.

I don't have the energy to do more washing than necessary and my shifts are only 3.5 hours long at the longest so it doesn't really seem worth it at all.
I see.

The entire concept of uniform is not to be seen in that sense. If it's too much for you to wash extra clothes, you could wear different shoes, or wear a necklace/tie, or a ring, or a bracelet, there's dozens of ways to do this. You could even chew a specific gum before work, or do a silly dance, really anything is possible

What's important is that you are suggesting to your subconscious brain "For work, I am doing something in a different than usual, but very specific manner"
in order for your subconscious mind to start making a distinction between "work self" and "recreational self"
This is all you would want to achieve in this exercise.

It's not something that sets in immediately either.

I'm not sure how much emotional pressure your job brings with it, either, but for a job like mine where pain and tears and death is part of the day-to-day, it's necessary to make that distinction in order for your brain to properly shut down any thoughts regarding work while you're away from it.
 
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Why won't you look at me while we are talking, it's rude to look away.\
the worst is how people naturally think you're untrustworthy, up to no good... because eye contact is avoided

I already had trust issues but now people naturally don't trust me for something I can't control

eye contact makes me feel like I'm on fire, burning, but avoiding it makes me feel like nobody trusts me
 
the worst is how people naturally think you're untrustworthy, up to no good... because eye contact is avoided

I already had trust issues but now people naturally don't trust me for something I can't control

eye contact makes me feel like I'm on fire, burning, but avoiding it makes me feel like nobody trusts me

I once had a friend kindly point out to me that I am abysmal at making eye contact, and he suggested it was a self confidence thing. After my diagnosis I told him that I suspected it was more due to being autistic and he sort of refused to take that on board. Neurotypical people just do not seem to understand how uncomfortable we find eye contact and how it actually makes no real difference if you do it all not, it doesn't add much to the conversation.

I will say the one big negative from not engaging in much eye contact is that I miss a lot of non verbal facial expressions which would otherwise clue me in to how a person might be feeling. That being said I can't usually interpret that anyway so it's kind of a moot point.
 
story of my life

even when I am highly confident in any situation it's still an issue

Somehow, by fixating on my lack of eye contact as an indication of my lack of confidence this same friend managed to miss me developing a severe stutter when I got burnout which returned fromy childhood which much more accurately reflected my sense of social comfort.

Having a stutter at the age of 27 when I repeat the first word of the sentence and sometimes half of the sentence multiple times before I manage to force the words out is deeply embarrassing and happens as soon as I feel even slightly anxious in any social setting. I become extremely self conscious of it.
 
I just want to say I think it's nice that this thread is still going. When I started it I never imagined that this many people would contribute their experiences, vent a bit, and even gain some firsthand knowledge about how to seek out a diagnosis, the process, and what help might be available.

I originally started it because I wanted neurotypical forum members to understand that while we are all unified by common shared diagnostic criteria, that can manifest in any number of significantly varying ways making us all incredibly unique individuals even if we do share a couple of traits.

I've long believed a huge issue with miscommunication between autistic and NT people is that they don't understand how our brains work and how we behave, and I hoped that people who read this could gain some insight into this which they could then use to benefit an autistic friend or loved one.

Plus it's been cool meeting other autistic forum members who I had no idea were autistic @Snafu in the Void
 
After suspending home working for several months my work have finally restored it for one day a week. This has been one advantage of petrol prices going insanely expensive over here in the UK that the company have been pressured into giving in to demand for Working From Home. People had been spending a fortune on petrol. That wasn't the main issue for me though, it was my Autism, and the energy I'd need to spend "masking" to fit in as much as possible, and not be seen as and treated like a weirdo. That was my main issue.

I did not want to have to declare my Autism and to go down the "reasonable adjustments" route to get the WFH privilege restored, and I'm glad that I didn't now. I don't think that would have played out very well in any way if I had done that.

so for the first time since my diagnosis I will be able to test out the "social battery" and "spoon theory" things on my self, and see what difference this makes over the course of the week, and for the other 4 days that I do have to go in. Hopefully I will start to find those other 4 days easier now.. I already know that I love time alone (it's much more comfortable and freeing for me) probably because it's nice to be able to just "be" and not have to spend energy all day trying to act as much like a "normal person" as I can.
 
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@Eligiu

Hi, good morning / day,

I wasn't aware of autistic burnout, and that levels can vary over time.

My therapist says I'm "hands down" not autistic, but looking over the "camouflage" symptoms, there really isn't any symptom that doesn't fit me.

Anyway, I really appreciate your first post.

Your story about lacrosse, in particular, opened my eyes.

I have a question, and apologize if it's been covered - how does marijuana effect you?
 
Also, do you know how good your "working memory" is? And reading comprehension?

Or is this case by case
 
@Eligiu

Hi, good morning / day,

I wasn't aware of autistic burnout, and that levels can vary over time.

My therapist says I'm "hands down" not autistic, but looking over the "camouflage" symptoms, there really isn't any symptom that doesn't fit me.

Anyway, I really appreciate your first post.

Your story about lacrosse, in particular, opened my eyes.

I have a question, and apologize if it's been covered - how does marijuana effect you?

Weed makes me psychotic these days. It used to make me stoned, happy, and relaxed and hungry. But I overdid it a lot as a teenager and a young adult. I haven't smoked in probably around 2 years and the last time I did I think I turned into an embarassing 5G conspiracy theorist nut. I get super paranoid, edgy, tense, and I can hear people calling my name behind me, doors opening and closing and footsteps near me even when nobody else is home.

Some of my medical team including my psychologist of 6 years weren't convinced I was autistic either because I masked so well, it was only people who spent a lot of time around me like an old friend I had who also knew a lot about autism because he had worked with autistic kids a fair bit so he knew a lot of the traits and saw it in me.

But I've sort of been hot and cold on it my whole life. As a child I felt it likely, as a teenager less so, as a younger adult no, but as I interacted more with autistic people I noticed the similarities.

Honestly even people with levels diagnosis don't know that levels vary over time, even though the report you get will literally say 'has level 3 support needs *at this point in time*' when it defines the level. So it can be good to get reassessed if you notice a sharp drop in functioning or an improvement.

You shouldn't need your therapist saying anything about a diagnosis, normally an autism diagnosis goes through a developmental psychologist who specialises in developmental disorders.
 
@Eligiu

Okay, understood.

Not sure how I feel any longer about trying to find my box, as opposed to just using process of elimination

But I too felt like I had most traits young, less in high school because I received more feedback - mostly in adult good when I tried to carry mi high school popularity to college.

NOPE
 
Also, do you know how good your "working memory" is? And reading comprehension?

Or is this case by case

Working memory is fairly bad, I forget things like appointments and stuff very frequently, in the last month I've missed maybe 6 therapy appointments because when my support worker says 'is there anything else you need to do today' which makes me say things like 'food shopping' or 'go to the chemist' or 'rhe laundry' instead of 'eli check your phone do we have any appointments to go to'

I need shopping lists to get all my groceries and constant reminders on my phone for bills.

Yeah not great.

My reading comprehension is generally good but I do take things very literally.
 
I've been a very high functioning autistic individual for a very long time ...

By high functioning I mean that I am able to bypass all my problems to the point I was able to have a lifetime career in Bio-Medical Engineering. Trust me the problem was never academics, technical skills, etc; but with people. I can learn anything I want as long as I'm interested in it. The problem is that I don't understand people and misread their intentions a lot. So basically I've been a loner (my wife calls me a hermit) for at least 30 years now. It's not that I don't like people,, I've just given up trying to understand them. I totally get that I'm the one who is broken, too.

My working memory is odd. I have to write everything down or else commit them to what I term ritual. A concrete example would be paying bills. I pay them all on once certain date and worked it all out with my creditors so everything lines up.

And yet I can recall things all the way back to my early childhood, like 3 or 4 years old. Not everything,, but way more than I want, to be truthful. Some things I simply cannot forget no matter how much I want.

And I am working way beyond my retirement (on my own stuff). So much I can lose a week or month on one single aspect of my project.

I post here on Blue Light as an effort to try and "socialize" myself, but it doesn't help much ;) Again I know I'm the one that's broken not Bluelight .
 
I totally get that I'm the one who is broken, too

Again I know I'm the one that's broken not Bluelight .
I watch a lot of Autistic You Tubers user experiences channels and videos on You Tube. That was a bit of a mouthfull and I wasnt quite sure exactly how to order those words. But one of the themes that crops up quite a bit is the 'positive re-framing' away from seeing the self as broken, but rather as different, or divergent, instead.

I think some of the hang ups and obsessions over words within the Autism community are a bit silly, like the whole thing about Autistic Person, vs Person with Autism. I mean who really gives a fuck about that. It's a complete nonsense.

But the "broken" thing. I do understand as I have felt that way too. I guess time will tell if I can ever re-frame that completely. It may help it terms of mood and self esteem etc not to view ones self as broken. But Divergent. Not that I agree with false positivity and language play to the point of self delusion, but there probably is something fairly significant in seeing or not seeing ones self in such harshly negative terms as "broken". It seems likely that re-framing ones self image in terms of "divergent" is possibly going to help some people's self perceptions.

There's a wealth of videos and audiobooks that make this point a lot better and go into a whole lot more depth than I did, if you are interested I think it's worthwhile.

Edit: there are no signs of any interest in this post of mine, but this quote I've just found on a facebook group explains the broken vs deurodiverse thing way better than I did above

"If Your Brain Is Different, Your Path to Healing Will Be Different
Professionals can’t be truly trauma-informed without a neurodiversity lens.
If a particular therapy or somatic healing exercise doesn’t work for you, it doesn’t mean you are broken, it means that isn’t the right tool for you."
 
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I've been a very high functioning autistic individual for a very long time ...

By high functioning I mean that I am able to bypass all my problems to the point I was able to have a lifetime career in Bio-Medical Engineering. Trust me the problem was never academics, technical skills, etc; but with people. I can learn anything I want as long as I'm interested in it. The problem is that I don't understand people and misread their intentions a lot. So basically I've been a loner (my wife calls me a hermit) for at least 30 years now. It's not that I don't like people,, I've just given up trying to understand them. I totally get that I'm the one who is broken, too.

My working memory is odd. I have to write everything down or else commit them to what I term ritual. A concrete example would be paying bills. I pay them all on once certain date and worked it all out with my creditors so everything lines up.

And yet I can recall things all the way back to my early childhood, like 3 or 4 years old. Not everything,, but way more than I want, to be truthful. Some things I simply cannot forget no matter how much I want.

And I am working way beyond my retirement (on my own stuff). So much I can lose a week or month on one single aspect of my project.

I post here on Blue Light as an effort to try and "socialize" myself, but it doesn't help much ;) Again I know I'm the one that's broken not Bluelight .

I used to be able to achieve my goals but remained socially unaware.

Just so you are aware, the terms 'high functioning' and 'low functioning' were never officially used diagnostic terms and have fallen out of use due to inaccuracies in what they described and issues with causing negative views towards certain autistic people.

High functioning was used to describe people with Asperger's Syndrome, ie autism without an intellectual disability. These people were deemed generally able to work, and of value to society as a result of that.

Low functioning was used to describe Autistic Disorder, ie autistic people with an intellectual disability. These people were generally unable to work, viewed as a burden on society due to needing care, and lesser in value.

Asperger's Syndrome and Autistic Disorder we're done away with in 2017 and Autism Spectrum Disorder with 'levels' was brought in. Levels refer to a person's support needs rather than their functional impairment, meaning that the focus is on what they are not able to do, but is on what they can do *with help* which highlights their independence.

One of the real issues with the old criteria is that people with hugely varying support needs were falling under the same umbrella because of simply not having an intellectual disability. Under the old criteria I would have an Aspergers diagnosis, however under the new I am level 3. The high and low functioning levels can't be applied to the levels diagnosis because high/low functioning included a measurement of a person's IQ as well as their autism symptoms. Levels measure purely a person's autism functional impairment.

My cousin is the perfect example of why Asperger's diagnosis can fail autistic people. He will never move out of his parents house. He will never have a partner. He doesn't have any friends. He spends all his free time assembling and disassembling computers. He has OCD traits, and his voice (like mine) is robotic or monotone. Socially, he is completely unaware. With the diagnosis he has, he is considered high functioning. He is not. He would be more level 3 than I am, I was 3 in one category and between 2/3 in the other but bumped up to 3. And within each level there is a spectrum of people from people who are only just level 3 (likely myself) to people like my cousin on the other end. He cannot access the same government funding I have due to his Asperger's diagnosis because he is considered high functioning.

If you want to accurately refer to autistic people's difficulties in a way which doesn't perpetuate marginalisation of the most vulnerable members of our community, referring to everyone as having 'support needs' is the appropriate way of doing so. I have a client I work with who is severely impaired by his autism and cognitive difficulties but he is *not* low functioning if he has the right support. He is non verbal, has severe autism, and needs prompting for every single aspect of his life (minus showering after dinner) but he goes to work at an op shop with a support worker once a week and sorts tickets out. He also does shopping with support workers and can find any item in the shop if shown a picture. He folds his own laundry (granted it takes him up to an hour sometimes) and he can play musical instruments including piano, guitar, and drums. He would be the very definition of low functioning.

Ido Kedar is an autistic teenager. Non verbal. He started off being put in ABA until he was 8 when his mum saw no progress and pulled him. She searched for a way to help him communicate and found a letterboard, which he used to spell words out. He told her that he wasn't stupid, he understands everything people say around him, and he wanted to go to mainstream school. They also found out he had Dyspraxia which affects motor coordination and was causing him to point to the wrong flashcards and get the wrong answers. Ido went to mainstream school with an aide. He used the letterboard in class and the aide spoke for him out loud. Eventually he graduated valedictorian of his honours mainstream classes and at 16 had authored a full length book, and by 18 published two more.

Again, Ido would be considered 'low functioning' but he actually just has higher support needs.

If you want to read his book it's called Ido in Autismland and it's about being autistic and non verbal in the world. It's very good and he is actually very funny.
 
the worst is how people naturally think you're untrustworthy, up to no good... because eye contact is avoided

I already had trust issues but now people naturally don't trust me for something I can't control

eye contact makes me feel like I'm on fire, burning, but avoiding it makes me feel like nobody trusts me
Hmmm, interesting.

I don't have autism, so perhaps I shouldn't be commenting here, but I do have Non Verbal Learning Disability, OCD, depression and generalized anxiety disorder, and I have intense eye contact phobia that is only treatable by prozac and benzos like Klonopin.

It started at age 14 and went away for 9 years when I got on prozac which is why I get so annoyed when people claim that SSRIs don't work and that all of psychiatry is a scam.

It came back at age 23 when I started drinking tons of coffee and then I needed Klonopin, and I wish to god I never started drinking coffee as if I hadn't I probably never would have needed Klonopin, and now I'm stuck in an up/down cycle between benzos and caffeine.

Let me ask you if your eye contact anxiety is like this: the way it feels is, (although I haven't had it in years thanks to my meds), is that I can't stop thinking about how much or how little eye contact I am making with people. So lets say I am focussed on one person in a group I'm in, lets say a class, and I start worrying "what if I look at him too much and he thinks I'm staring at him?" So I think that I shouldn't look at him. But then I think "this is weird, people HAVE to make eye contact SOMETIMES, so I should look at him occasionally, just not too much, or too little. So then I look, but then I think I looked too long and he'll think that's weird, or he'll think it's weird I'm not looking at him enough and the worst fear is that the person will start to notice I'm uncomfortable and think something is wrong with me and ask what's wrong, because then I'll COMPLETELY freak out because I can't explain what's happening to me.

Is that how yours is?

Cause when it used to happen, the only way to feel ok was just to basically never look at people, but you can't not look at people when talking to them, so it's a problem.

THANK GOD I found prozac at age 14 which made it go away, and then Klonopin again at age 23. Without these meds, I think I'd be agoraphobic. Some other things like Kratom and alcohol also work, but I don't think a kratom addiction is great being how short acting it is, and I can't be drunk all the time. I think maybe shrooms could help, but you can't be tripping all the time.

So that's why I got annoyed in that other SSRI thread where people are all saying SSRIs are bullshit and psychiatry is bullshit: THEY AREN'T!!

Whether or not SSRIs work for depression I don't know. I'm still depressed a lot, but much of it is situational anyway, so maybe they don't, but they DO work for this eye contact anxiety I have, UNLESS I drink too much caffeine or take stimulants, and then I need Klonopin to make it go away, and now I am so addicted to Klonopin, prozac and caffeine, that it's very hard to know how to get off any of them.

But pretty soon I plan on trying to quit both caffeine and Klonopin, and my psychiatrist is willing to help me. I think if I can get off both then the prozac alone should be enough, since it was enough from ages 14-23 before I became a heavy caffeine drinker.

Let me also ask you: have you tried SSRIs or benzos for your issues and if so, have they worked? What else have you tried? Any other drugs or therapies?

They say that Non Verbal Learning Disability (which i have) may be on the autism spectrum, and these similarities make me think it might actually be true...

Also, do you drink coffee/caffeine or take stimulants and if so, do they make it worse?
 
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I used to be able to achieve my goals but remained socially unaware.

Just so you are aware, the terms 'high functioning' and 'low functioning' were never officially used diagnostic terms and have fallen out of use due to inaccuracies in what they described and issues with causing negative views towards certain autistic people.

High functioning was used to describe people with Asperger's Syndrome, ie autism without an intellectual disability. These people were deemed generally able to work, and of value to society as a result of that.

Low functioning was used to describe Autistic Disorder, ie autistic people with an intellectual disability. These people were generally unable to work, viewed as a burden on society due to needing care, and lesser in value.

Asperger's Syndrome and Autistic Disorder we're done away with in 2017 and Autism Spectrum Disorder with 'levels' was brought in. Levels refer to a person's support needs rather than their functional impairment, meaning that the focus is on what they are not able to do, but is on what they can do *with help* which highlights their independence.

One of the real issues with the old criteria is that people with hugely varying support needs were falling under the same umbrella because of simply not having an intellectual disability. Under the old criteria I would have an Aspergers diagnosis, however under the new I am level 3. The high and low functioning levels can't be applied to the levels diagnosis because high/low functioning included a measurement of a person's IQ as well as their autism symptoms. Levels measure purely a person's autism functional impairment.

My cousin is the perfect example of why Asperger's diagnosis can fail autistic people. He will never move out of his parents house. He will never have a partner. He doesn't have any friends. He spends all his free time assembling and disassembling computers. He has OCD traits, and his voice (like mine) is robotic or monotone. Socially, he is completely unaware. With the diagnosis he has, he is considered high functioning. He is not. He would be more level 3 than I am, I was 3 in one category and between 2/3 in the other but bumped up to 3. And within each level there is a spectrum of people from people who are only just level 3 (likely myself) to people like my cousin on the other end. He cannot access the same government funding I have due to his Asperger's diagnosis because he is considered high functioning.

If you want to accurately refer to autistic people's difficulties in a way which doesn't perpetuate marginalisation of the most vulnerable members of our community, referring to everyone as having 'support needs' is the appropriate way of doing so. I have a client I work with who is severely impaired by his autism and cognitive difficulties but he is *not* low functioning if he has the right support. He is non verbal, has severe autism, and needs prompting for every single aspect of his life (minus showering after dinner) but he goes to work at an op shop with a support worker once a week and sorts tickets out. He also does shopping with support workers and can find any item in the shop if shown a picture. He folds his own laundry (granted it takes him up to an hour sometimes) and he can play musical instruments including piano, guitar, and drums. He would be the very definition of low functioning.

Ido Kedar is an autistic teenager. Non verbal. He started off being put in ABA until he was 8 when his mum saw no progress and pulled him. She searched for a way to help him communicate and found a letterboard, which he used to spell words out. He told her that he wasn't stupid, he understands everything people say around him, and he wanted to go to mainstream school. They also found out he had Dyspraxia which affects motor coordination and was causing him to point to the wrong flashcards and get the wrong answers. Ido went to mainstream school with an aide. He used the letterboard in class and the aide spoke for him out loud. Eventually he graduated valedictorian of his honours mainstream classes and at 16 had authored a full length book, and by 18 published two more.

Again, Ido would be considered 'low functioning' but he actually just has higher support needs.

If you want to read his book it's called Ido in Autismland and it's about being autistic and non verbal in the world. It's very good and he is actually very funny.
I'm over 80 so some of the terms I use are probably now no longer in fashion or use in clinical psychology . I thought the idea was to express how those who were diagnosed were effected, not argue about whether their experiences were valid in Eligiu's opinion.

I'm not at all surprised that you criticized me rather than empathize with me because you that's the way you treat others consistently on this site. I don't wish to have an argument with you so I'll just say thank you and leave" your" thread. You seem very intent on having everyone agree with your point of view and I simply don't have time too argue with people like you.

Peace !
 
I'm over 80 so some of the terms I use are probably now no longer in fashion or use in clinical psychology . I thought the idea was to express how those who were diagnosed were effected, not argue about whether their experiences were valid in Eligiu's opinion.

I'm not at all surprised that you criticized me rather than empathize with me because you that's the way you treat others consistently on this site. I don't wish to have an argument with you so I'll just say thank you and leave" your" thread. You seem very intent on having everyone agree with your point of view and I simply don't have time too argue with people like you.

Peace !

I have just realised why some people dislike me on here. My friend wrote in my NDIS support letter that I have a very stilted manner of communication. One of my clients is the same and he is so unpopular that the unpopular kids don't let him hand out with them. My communication is too verbose and formal so people get the impression that I think I'm better than them. When I argue with transphobes that is different. But generally speaking when I write, this is actually a direct consequence of having a more impairing form of autism because it literally prevents me from forming connections with people as they're put off by the way I speak and write. I don't think I am better than you, I just thought you would appreciate being told that information so that you wouldn't say something that was detrimental to fellow autistic people, that's all.

I would have thought in a thread about autism that some of us struggling a lot with socially acceptable communication would be accepted. Because I actually was trying to be polite and nice, and not trying to force you to take on my opinion as the information I shared isn't even my opinion, it's just information from the community I was once given as well.

There was no criticism there, I was simply explaining why those terms are no longer in use and how they are detrimental to members of our community. This is not my opinion, this is the opinion of those people who are affected by those labels in negative ways. I never had the label, so it doesn't particularly impact me at all, but for the people who it did impact like people labelled high functioning who were not so, or low functioning who were able to do things, there has been a push to stop the usage of those terms as they were never at all diagnostic labels.



I'm unsure as to how you have formed the belief that this is 'my opinion' as I did not change the diagnosis in 2017, nor make the new one use support needs, nor begin pointing out issues with functional labels, in fact I used to use them myself. How can something be 'my opinion' if I had to be informed about it too? That doesn't make any sense.

If you're talking about when transphobes do something transphobic then yeah, my opinion is the relevant one as a trans person. But I actually spend more of my time in harm reduction parts of the forum, mental health, TDS, and health and recovery.

It's interesting that forum members who get to know me realise that their previous opinion about me wasn't accurate at all. I've had it happen frequently. It seems to be a 50/50 mix of people who like me and those who do not, and I can live with that because I don't have to get along with everyone.

This wasn't meant to end up in an arguement. I honestly figured you'd do what I did when I got told that information and go 'oh, thanks. I didn't know that. I'll make sure I change how I refer to these groups because I don't want to contribute to further harm' because that to me seems like the right thing to do. I don't really understand why you'd want to keep using labels that were never clinically used nor diagnostic terms and were just unofficial words used to describe groups we no longer have.
 
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