Phenobarbitone

[Keif' Richards]

I hear you on Honeywhite and your disdain for Methamphetamine, but I wouldn't worry too much about it. Methamphetamine is indeed neurotoxic at higher dosages, but if you're taking it as prescribed and not binging, then the difference between Methamphetamine and non-methylated Amphetamine are fairly negligible. You shouldn't worry about having been on Methamphetamine is my point, it's really not so different from other Amphetamines.

I'm also a little curious about some stuff. They definitely don't prescribe Drinamyl (Amobarbital/Dextroamphetamine) is definitely not prescribed anymore, anywhere. These Barbiturate/Amphetamine combination drugs, of which there were many: Dexamyl (American equivalent of Drinamyl), Ambar (Methamphetamine/Phenobarbital) anon. They were immensely popular for a short period of time as common sense and logic would dictate, but their popularity waned significantly in the 70's and were almost completely non-existent by the turn of the decade.

I also don't think that they commonly prescribe Methamphetamine (Desoxyn) to kids for ADHD. A lot of my UK friends have actually told me that prescribing Amphetamine-type stimulants to children is not nearly as common in the UK as it is in the United States. I've also been told by said friends, that if the line is indeed crossed and a stimulant is prescribed, it's typically Methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta). Pharmaceutical Methamphetamine is de facto (I've met 2 people with prescriptions ever), not prescribed in the United States, so it would really surprise me to see the more pharmaceutically conservative British prescribing it to kids.

Honeywhite, I apologize, as I didn't realize that you were dependent upon Opioids in this way. I understood that you used them, but not the actual extent of the use and maybe I just didn't read carefully enough. I'm sure you're aware of the danger in mixing high doses of Barbiturates with Opioids, so I'm not going to over-lecture you, but man, it's a really dangerous practice and I'm still holding out my opinion on the Phenobarbital that you simply aren't aware of how intoxicated you actually are. It's a hallmark of both Barbiturate and Benzodiazepine intoxication. People often think they are totally fine or unaffected. The first few times I used Alprazolam (Xanax) at 1mg and 2mg respectively, I actually thought that they did nothing and hence, didn't pay my friend. I thought he had burned me. My point is, it's not an intelligence thing, it happens to the best of us.

The shitty thing about relying on drugs Honeywhite, is that the phases of addiction commonly include one in which the user feels "complete" when they have their drugs. They don't feel like it's truly a problem, but in the back of their head, the idea is beginning to form. Feeling like you "need" the drugs, meaning, your problem specifically is somehow "different" than other people who become addicted to Opiates. They're using them to "get high" whereas you need them to "function" and get out of bed. I'm not condescending to you whatsoever, but I have an opinion, and it's just my personal opinion, that you might not have a full grasp upon how physically/psychologically dependent you might be.

The fact is that, even if you "need something to live", prescribers can still tell you to piss off and will leave you crying in the corner. I went through the same phase in my life, where I thought that I was "different" because I was using Opioids as "antidepressants", not simply to get high. I needed them and I had a way to use them in which I would never become addicted nor suffer negative consequences. I'm not saying our scenarios are identical or that you have to listen to me, but I thought it might be worth throwing out there. It's only because I want to see you succeed and not have to make the same mistakes I've made.

 

[honeywhite]

I'm also a little curious about some stuff. They definitely don't prescribe Drinamyl (Amobarbital/Dextroamphetamine) is definitely not prescribed anymore, anywhere. These Barbiturate/Amphetamine combination drugs, of which there were many: Dexamyl (American equivalent of Drinamyl), Ambar (Methamphetamine/Phenobarbital) anon. They were immensely popular for a short period of time as common sense and logic would dictate, but their popularity waned significantly in the 70's and were almost completely non-existent by the turn of the decade.

I also don't think that they commonly prescribe Methamphetamine (Desoxyn) to kids for ADHD. A lot of my UK friends have actually told me that prescribing Amphetamine-type stimulants to children is not nearly as common in the UK as it is in the United States. I've also been told by said friends, that if the line is indeed crossed and a stimulant is prescribed, it's typically Methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta). Pharmaceutical Methamphetamine is de facto (I've met 2 people with prescriptions ever), not prescribed in the United States, so it would really surprise me to see the more pharmaceutically conservative British prescribing it to kids.

Honeywhite, I apologize, as I didn't realize that you were dependent upon Opioids in this way. I understood that you used them, but not the actual extent of the use and maybe I just didn't read carefully enough. I'm sure you're aware of the danger in mixing high doses of Barbiturates with Opioids, so I'm not going to over-lecture you, but man, it's a really dangerous practice and I'm still holding out my opinion on the Phenobarbital that you simply aren't aware of how intoxicated you actually are. It's a hallmark of both Barbiturate and Benzodiazepine intoxication. People often think they are totally fine or unaffected. The first few times I used Alprazolam (Xanax) at 1mg and 2mg respectively, I actually thought that they did nothing and hence, didn't pay my friend. I thought he had burned me. My point is, it's not an intelligence thing, it happens to the best of us.

Comminuted fracture of the tibia and fibula sinister - "looks like coffee grounds" as the radiologist so pithily put it. Intramedullary nail put in place but there really wasn't much "medulla" for it to go "intra". Basically my left shin bone is made out of titanium. 40mg diamorphine works, no complaints.

Yes, I've used diamorphine for recreation (Zomorph™, Heroin™), once or twice. My head ended up hitting my chest a couple times, cigarette burned the G and M keys off my laptop... aside from that, felt like an eight-hour-long full-body sexual climax if you can envision that. My GP has a concentration in pain practice (I don't use the usual university doctor for this reason) so I feel like I'm in decent hands.

Drinamyl certainly isn't available here as one tablet anymore, but its constituents are, and it's used (very, very sparingly) as, I said, the most rudimentary possible antidepressant. It's still commonly known as that by older, wiser doctors ("I'll put you on the Drinamyl treatment") but yes, not available as one tablet - looked all over for it in the 2017 NHS Manual. Amphetamines on the whole are less prescribed but available. Usually under specialist care.

High doses of any kind of barbiturate - never again. That dose killed Judy Garland and it could have killed me. It was impatience and a gross lack of judgement. Three tablets, as and when needed. Just picked up my bottle.

Xanax puts me to bed. Satisfactory sleeping pill but I hate to sleep.

As for the Desoxyn, it's a good stimulant but the stigma of being a "meth head"...

PS: Two-In-All (Tuinal) is somewhat hypnotic to some people apparently. Conversation with the pain doctor: "Long day, Niamh?" "As soon as I clock off, I'm taking a Tuinal and going to bed."

 

[Keif' Richards]

So, I think maybe we've reached the terminus of this thread and I might close it. It's becoming more of an open ended discussion without a clear objective. If anyone objects to closure or has anything else to add, please chime in!

 

[honeywhite]

So, I think maybe we've reached the terminus of this thread and I might close it. It's becoming more of an open ended discussion without a clear objective. If anyone objects to closure or has anything else to add, please chime in!

No objections on my side, but I'll add this into the official record: benzodiazepines stink, I won't take them, and they stink. Thanks for making my wake-up time 6pm, lorazepam. (GP in Canada prescribed it way back when.)

As for the principal object of this thread, we've hashed out the effects of barbiturates, ataxia is common, mild stupor as well, and Mandrax won't be an effective or safe replacement. Still trying to find The One, but pheno seems to be the ticket, at this time, in this place.

 

[honeywhite]

Carbamates are sedating anti-seizure meds. Librium is one of them, which I didn't find sedating at all (when given to me in-patient rehab). It's not a treatment for anxiety.

Oh, Scrof, think you've made an error there - Librium and Librax are trade names for chlordiazepoxide which is a very very old school diazepine (older than Valium). Structure doesn't look like a carbamate in any case. Anyway you seem to know your way round biology and pharmacology better than I - but the best of us make mistakes. If it's *my* mistake, sorry.

 

[Scrofula]

You're absolutely right--Librium is a benzo, not a carbamate.

You're also right, though, that I know more about those subjects. Like, a lot more.

Where you're wrong is in assuming anyone on this board cares. There are more than a few folks here who have me beat on those subjects academically, and vocationally. But the real expertise around here includes direct experience and independent research--and half of BL knows vastly more about benzos and especially opiates than I do. In fact, about all I have to offer those threads are my few anecdotes (I'm guessing I'm one of the few who's ever been given chloral hydrate clinically, and Librium is somewhat rarely prescribed, I think; I've gotten IV fentanyl clinically too) and the willingness to point out where folks are stretching their chemistry knowledge in an attempt to falsely impress.

Of course, as Mr. Richards tried to gently explain, no one here needs the help. I just like to pretend I'm useful.

 

[Keif' Richards]

^Oh Scrofula, aren't we both just so polite and restrained? Your more advanced knowledge is a very welcomed and appreciated addition to my knowledge, which as you've pointed out, is more rooted in experience and anecdote from others who have been through similar experiences. My role is sort of as the "jack of all trades, master of none" when it comes to drug use. I know a little bit, about a lot of different things.

It's a community though. It takes a village, as they say and our differing knowledge is, in fact, complimentary. You know a little about this, I know a little bit about that and that's, in my belief, what makes Bluelight tick. It's nice to see you hanging around the walled-ghetto that is Basic Drug Discussion and hopefully we see more of you in the future!

Now, with that said, why don't we stop beating this poor horse. He's about to be beaten to death, but he still has a pulse.

Closed.