Peyote Way Church of God

[B9]

I'll use the USDA/FDA standards for organic.

Perhaps I'll start saying organic instead of natural.

Or even "USDA organic", lol, so there is no confusion.

Do you oppose anything classified as "inorganic" ?

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

I'm sorry to keep pressing this issue, but its not a black & white issue. First off, by your definition a human infant is not natural. Neither would broccoli, the current incarnation of a banana, or a tree that was planted by humans.

Huh? What? Why because of breeding? That is still natural are you kidding? All of our fruits and crops have been breed by humans but that doesn't make them unnatural.

Do you oppose anything classified as "inorganic" ?

For what? Human consumption? It really would be best if humans didn't ingest anything that wasn't organic.

 

[B9]

Yeah for food & medicine

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

I don't know about medicine, there are lots of inorganic medicines that help people.

With food, I believe we'd all be much healthier if we all ate organic (and lived organic).

I suppose with foods and psychoactives organic would be best.

 

[B9]

There's a contradiction tho isn't there ? Like production costs & the ability of supply to meet demand - how would you get around these problems ?

 

[any major dude]

With food, I believe we'd all be much healthier if we all ate organic

agreed 100%

I suppose with foods and psychoactives organic would be best.

probably mostly true. if i had the option of buying organic bud i definitely would.

I don't know about medicine, there are lots of inorganic medicines that help people.

Given that psychoactives help people as well, would it matter if they are organic or inorganic? Many people would call both of them medicine. PTSD treatment of combat vets & rape victims with MDMA has shown very promising results, and it is extremely safe. If one were to dose one of these poor individuals with a plant-entheogen the problems would likely only compound.

I'm not saying plant-entheogens don't have a place, as i'm a fan of many of them, but simply that there's no reason to discriminate against synthetics. They both have their place, some in both categories are very dangerous, and some in both categories are very safe.

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

There's a contradiction tho isn't there ? Like production costs & the ability of supply to meet demand - how would you get around these problems ?

I never said anything about making it happen, just that it'd be best.

if i had the option of buying organic bud i definitely would.

O god yes, i love organic bud, so tasty!

Given that psychoactives help people as well, would it matter if they are organic or inorganic? Many people would call both of them medicine. PTSD treatment of combat vets & rape victims with MDMA has shown very promising results, and it is extremely safe. If one were to dose one of these poor individuals with a plant-entheogen the problems would likely only compound.

I assume those are given in clinical settings? or at least by trained professionals.

I already stated that I think ALL DRUGS should be legal for scientist and doctors doing research or treating patients. Everything from Heroin to LSD-25. I just don't think they should be available to the public.

I don't think an Ayahuasca trip with ness. be bad for somebody in that situation

 

[any major dude]

I assume those are given in clinical settings? or at least by trained professionals.

yep, and yep, with carefully chosen participants as well.

I already stated that I think ALL DRUGS should be legal for scientist and doctors doing research or treating patients. Everything from Heroin to LSD-25. I just don't think they should be available to the public.

I don't think an Ayahuasca trip with ness. be bad for somebody in that situation

It might not, but its so wildly unpredictable, plus given that stress tends to trigger the acute episodes, it would likely be bad. I certainly think aya has potential for behavior modification therapy & insight into personal (and potentially interpersonal) issues.

Obviously no one wants all drugs to be available to the general public, but its gonna happen, there's no way around it. That's been proven time and again as every intoxicant of any variety was once unregulated, then illegal, but still available. Hence distinguishing between different origins of the chemicals for purposes of controlling them would be pointless, though a noble thought perhaps.

 

[ResinTeeth]

im banned at both of those places, sorry.

maybe some people here will get interested in botanicals

we can only hope

Sounds promising hahahaha


I'd also like to point out that you have 230+ posts and you've only just joined this month. Unreasonable? I think so.

Hows about you, DXMkid420 and DailyTrippa all get together and bounce ideas back and forth. I'm sure there are loads of potential ideas just going to waste aluslzulzulzulszulsu

 

[Delta-9-THC]

It is not your opinion...it is your attitude and the way you choose to state your opinion.

Exactly. How many times to people have to state this before you realize it? The reasons why your pissing people off is because you are very arrogant and insulting and are constantly trying to push your ideas on others. It is not because they don't agree with you (but I'm sure you will keep telling yourself that). This is among other reasons (poorly constructed, repetitive, rambling arguments being another).

Also on "what is nature" you guys are arguing pure semantics. People mean different things when they say nature. In certain contexts nature can be equivalent to "reality" and in that way, everything that exists is natural whether it was facilitated by human actions or not.

In Teo's context he is referring to the more common and surface understanding of nature as the distinction between things man made/caused and otherwise.

 

[Damien]

It is not your opinion...it is your attitude and the way you choose to state your opinion.

Exactly. Also there is no reason why you should be calling other users "Fucking idiots".

 

[Teotzlcoatl]

yep, and yep, with carefully chosen participants as well.

wonderful. good work.

Also on "what is nature" you guys are arguing pure semantics. People mean different things when they say nature. In certain contexts nature can be equivalent to "reality" and in that way, everything that exists is natural whether it was facilitated by human actions or not.

In Teo's context he is referring to the more common and surface understanding of nature as the distinction between things man made/caused and otherwise.

good answer

Exactly. Also there is no reason why you should be calling other users "Fucking idiots".

ya sorry, i should stop doing that

Obviously no one wants all drugs to be available to the general public, but its gonna happen, there's no way around it. That's been proven time and again as every intoxicant of any variety was once unregulated, then illegal, but still available. Hence distinguishing between different origins of the chemicals for purposes of controlling them would be pointless, though a noble thought perhaps.

I really enjoy reading your posts.

While I do agree with you to a

My idea of legalizing only plant-drugs is a FIRST STEP towards progress, further progress could then be made legalizing or decriminalizing other drugs if people choose to peruse that.

Ask yourself... what is it easier to do? grow a plant? or step up a lab and made LSD or MDMA...

Due to the fact that chemicals are harder to produce this sets up and creates a large market controlled by a few chemist in laboratories.

Yet one can be self-sufficient in growing the plants. They can totally produce them for themselves, thus eliminating trafficking and other negative issues associated with drugs.

Also... people who grow, must learn and know, how to prepare, grow and work with the plants... thus they have respect and knowledge about dosage and responsibility is totally on them for the effects instead of the person who sold it or w/e

 

[any major dude]

Also on "what is nature" you guys are arguing pure semantics. People mean different things when they say nature. In certain contexts nature can be equivalent to "reality" and in that way, everything that exists is natural whether it was facilitated by human actions or not.

In Teo's context he is referring to the more common and surface understanding of nature as the distinction between things man made/caused and otherwise.

Semantics aside, I'm talking about the concept of there being more value attached to certain chemicals due to their presence in certain plants. Using chemistry to explore the mind & enhance understanding of the machinery of the brain is entirely natural. Whether its a shaman experimenting with different combinations of plants anytime of the past few millenia, or someone like Shulgin or Nichols in a lab today, the concept is the same and the quest to understand this is obviously an innate human attribute. The only things that has changed is the tools.

The distinction between the two is semantic, which is what I was trying to point out.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

Yea there is a whole thread that just got closed debating that as I'm sure you saw. I didn't want to go into the merits of synthetic vs natural drugs again at all, I really just wanted to chime in and clarify this idea of defining nature I saw being discussed as I find the subject interesting.

I basically argued the exact same thing in that thread as what you just expressed regarding the innate desire to experience novel states of consciousness no matter where the chemicals are coming from (whether it be a plant or a laboratory).

I would argue that we are in a much better place now to do this safely and effectively than the shamans ever were.

But I really don't want this thread to turn into version #2 of the old one so I'll just shut up

 

[swilow]

Please teocraptal go away please!!!!

 

[Eldaren]

Please teocraptal go away please!!!!

+1

it'd be fine if you toned it down a notch. just realised that you're on a horse that's about 4 million miles high right now, and we're all on the ground thinking wow you're a fuckin douche.

sure, you have something to offer. learn how to offer it in a way that people can make their own decisions, and form their own opinions on the subject you are putting forward. instead of jamming it down their throats, saying you're always right, being generally condescending in your tone. we're all people for fuck's sakes. you aren't any better. get over yourself.

 

[Roger&Me]

Nobody should be eating peyote!

Its an endangered species, practically destined for extinction at this point.

My state used to be covered in peyote, but all the land has been destroyed to build cattle farms and strip malls.

I think eating peyote is piggish and repugnant, and it pisses me off that there's some fake-ass "church" out there accelerating the extinction of a dwindling plant species. Fuck off with that "peyote way church of god" bullshit, that's the lamest excuse I've ever heard people use to get loaded.

Not to mention, there are plenty of other mescaline-containing cacti that are more enjoyable to consume due to lacking the isoquinolines in peyote that induce extreme nausea. So there's no reason to ever remove peyote from the earth, every living peyote cactus should be allowed to continue propagating undisturbed.

 

[Help?!?!]

Thats one of the main reasons I have a problem with this thread. I know teo is obsessed with peyote and tells everyone to eat it but its just stupid to waste such a special plant. The only thing I would be thinking if I ate peyote is how I just consumed something that took 20 years to grow. Thats why I asked why would you join this! I understand a small bit if your native american and its part of your heritage and a tradition but I doubt teo has any connection to this(could be wrong though).

 

[solistus]

So now that he's calling people fucking idiots and spreading arguments between threads including his own new threads for no reason, can we just ban him?

At any rate, the Peyote Way's own FAQ explains that the religious argument doesn't magically prevent you from getting arrested and, while *they* don't care what race you are, many states only apply the peyote exemption to those who can prove Native American ancestry.

The only justification for this being in PD is if this is about ways to score 'legal drugs' rather than about the actual religious practices of the Peyote Way.

Starting a new thread by yelling at people quoted from another thread is lame. Isn't it against the rules to try to revive an argument after the original thread gets closed?

Also, weren't you the one yelling at people a few days ago for using rare entheogens without growing their own? Isn't peyote pretty much THE perfect example of that being bad?

I'm not gonna debate Teo about what 'natural' means but you guys have fun trying to explain to him that "trees aren't cars" doesn't eliminate the huge grey area between natural and artificial.

 

[Roger&Me]

Thats one of the main reasons I have a problem with this thread. I know teo is obsessed with peyote and tells everyone to eat it but its just stupid to waste such a special plant. The only thing I would be thinking if I ate peyote is how I just consumed something that took 20 years to grow. Thats why I asked why would you join this! I understand a small bit if your native american and its part of your heritage and a tradition but I doubt teo has any connection to this(could be wrong though).

I doubt Teo really gives a shit about the plants or the Earth, TBH.

The whole "natural" thing just seems like some weird illogical notion his ego has clung to in order to support itself.