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Peyote & Cardiac Risk

RhythmSpring

RhythmSpring

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
2,255
Hi,

So I've got a few reasons to be a little bit worried about my heart, despite me being 25 and skinnyaf.

I've had rheumatoid arthritis for 7 years, which not only attacks the joints, but the connective tissue lining the heart.
During the worst bouts of inflammation, I've felt aches and pains there, and immobility.
I've taken 5-HTP for extended periods of time, like 100mg-200mg a day sometimes for a year at a time.
These days, I feel a weird straining there, along with palpitations, a straining feeling that runs down my left arm, especially when I've had too much salt.
Lots of fatigue that seems centered around the heart-region (on the bottom of the left pec and inward)

And I've got a few reasons to believe that peyote might be risky, cardiac-wise:

Peyote contains MAOIs+mescaline
Last time I took that combination, I experienced an exacerbation of fatigue and heart pains
The last few times I took even a small amount of MAOI--Passionflower tea, 400mg Syrian rue, or Iboga microdose--I also had an exacerbation of heart pains and the associated fatigue.

Should I avoid a full-on peyote ceremony? I love the medicine, but I fear that it might hurt me.

EDIT: Mushrooms don't give me any physical problems.
 
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It sounds like there are risks there, I'm not sure what you usually trip on - and if low-normal doses of say 2C-B or mushrooms also give you aches like that. It's hard to know for sure especially if you haven't been diagnosed.

How long ago did you take that combination of MAOIs and mescaline? And what kind of MAOIs were those? I guess you know a little bit about what to expect from it, though it might have become worse or better. You are the best judge of that.

Be careful with your health. Tripping and especially therapeutic sessions are valuable to a lot of people but there are limits to what it's worth...
 
It was a while ago, like 2 years. It was something like 100mg mescaline and 800mg syrian rue. I know it's not a lot, but I'm reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally sensitive. (Like, 5 sips of beer gives me a hangover kind of sensitive)
 
I know nothing about potential dangers for your heart, but I'd be cautious.

But I want to say: Unless you are first nations/american indian please avoid consuming wild harvested peyote! It's an endangered plant that is so special to have in the wild, we need to not destroy it by gobbling it up! If you are first nations/Am. Indian I'd still urge you to avoid wild harvested peyote for the same reason, but you have a more legit right to it anyways.

If it's cultivated peyote, or some non-peyote mescaline cactus like San Pedro there are no ethical concerns! If it's cultivated peyote that's a great thing to eat because you are supporting the industry of growing peyote, which helps to keep this amazing plant going!
 
I've never heard of peyote containing MAOIs. If it does they're present in doses so low it couldn't have any effect whatsoever on a human being.

And unless you ate a couple of kilograms of passionflower then any pains in your heart were pure placebo.
 
Honestly, I wouldn't think it's a good idea to use mescaline with heart conditions. It does cause increased heart rate and blood pressure. Probably just not worth the risk but it's your body and your life.
 
jason7 said:
Honestly, I wouldn't think it's a good idea to use mescaline with heart conditions. It does cause increased heart rate and blood pressure. Probably just not worth the risk but it's your body and your life.
Click to expand...

Yeah don't risk it. Or if you are really set on trying it, talk to a doctor and a cardiologist.

I know people who are older who have heart or blood pressure problems and they do not even use cannabis because of the risk associated with it.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=117399
 
Is a cardiologist really going to say "Yep, go ahead and take a class A drug. Let me know how it goes" tho?

Presumably taking peyote is quite a bit less stressful to the heart than going for a fast walk?
 
^ Is that an accurate presumption?

I just was on the stationary bike for 30 minutes today with no problem (in fact, it felt really good!). Does that mean I would fare well with peyote? Maybe.

Is it accurate to equate aerobic activity with taking an MAOI? I don't think so.
 
A reasonably low dose probably wouldn't hurt. It's not a particularly enjoyable thing though, at least for the first few hours, with nausea and vomiting. I guess it might have value in the later stages though.
 
During my recent peyote baptism in Mexico-waited 11 years for the opportunity and am Native/Spanish=Mexican, I trekked 15-20 miles through the desert and only the dehydration of walking through the Chihuahuan desert for that long with limited access to water caused me any physical problems.

However, I have no known heart issues. My point is I utilized it to accomplish a physical feat that I don't know if I could've done without the 7 or 8 wild buttons that I ate. It does seem dangerous to do something like that with heart palpitations though.

Keep in mind, it is a psychedelic amphetamine. I tend to have high systolic blood pressure as well.
 
Addition: HR wise, better safe than sorry.

The Tarahumara of Chihuahua (Raramuri as they call themselves which means 'fleet of foot') consume less peyote than the Huichol, for example. But they are famed distance runners and chase down deer until the deer tire of exhaustion. Nowadays they consume more alcohol/tesguino as peyote has become rarer in the north.
BUT

I have a strong hypothesis that I want to confirm (I've spoken to the natives in Spanish, they don't all speak Spanish), that the runners are able to go these distances, upwards of 100 miles basically without stopping with the aid of peyote.

Confirmation will involve years of ethnographic research though.
 
Strictly speaking, mescaline isn't a psychedelic amphetamine, it's a psychedelic phenethylamine. But it's related, and I'd be concerned about it affecting your heart condition too, especially if you were to use it to push yourself beyond your normal limits of physical endurance.

I've also often wondered if the tarahumara use peyote to help their long runs. I remember reading how huichol use(d?) it to help endure long journeys and for long hunts in the old days. Let us know if you find out!

It's very sad that peyote is disappearing in the wild. It grows so slowly and just can't keep up with the harvesting and cattle trampling.
 
RhythmSpring said:
^ Is that an accurate presumption?
Click to expand...

If you asked me which is more strenuous, walking 1 mile or tripping on peyote I'd plump for the walk.

Is it accurate to equate aerobic activity with taking an MAOI?

I thought he was taking peyote? Peyote isn't an MAOI.
 
Ismene said:
Is a cardiologist really going to say "Yep, go ahead and take a class A drug. Let me know how it goes" tho?

Presumably taking peyote is quite a bit less stressful to the heart than going for a fast walk?
Click to expand...

You never know what a medical professional or doctor will say. I know people who take, or while they were taking SSRIs or certain medications who asked their doctor if it was OK for them to take psychedelic mushrooms, take Ayahuasca, or smoke pot and the doctor said it was OK. If you take drugs your doctor should know about it.
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
You never know what a medical professional or doctor will say. I know people who take, or while they were taking SSRIs or certain medications who asked their doctor if it was OK for them to take psychedelic mushrooms, take Ayahuasca, or smoke pot and the doctor said it was OK. If you take drugs your doctor should know about it.
Click to expand...

This. It's best to be honest with your doctor. They aren't there to judge you, only help you. I've come clean with my doctor about everything, and he appreciates it and applauds me for my honesty. Then gives me a lolipop, sooo worth it.

Question: Why do you need to take an MAOI? Mescaline itself should be strong enough to work, it's not like DMT where the body breaks it down rapidly. I know there are some weak MAOI's in cactus like hordenine, but to my understanding they're weak, short acting and reversible.
 
Perpetualdawn, true and thank you.

I asked an old Tarahumara woman (about 70+) about the use of peyote in years past and she confirmed it, but I couldn't get much out of her. They are a displaced people in Chihuahua, Chihuahua and tend to keep to themselves and many only speak their native tongue. My family is part Tarahumara on my mother's side.

I do know that my cousin has hitchhiked all over Chihuahua and Mexico as a whole all the way to Chiapas, and his favorite peyote cerros are still 150 miles south of the capital of Chih. and we hitchhiked at least 100 each way after a motorcycle ride out of the city.

Confirming this hypothesis will take time, but there is peyote art in Mexico from the northern states down to San Luis Potosí. My favorite mural in Chihuahua was painted by children under a bridge and along with skunks and coyotes and birds they also painted numerous peyote buttons.
 
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Just to update on this thread:

I went ahead and tried three peyote buttons. One of the best decisions of my life! It was surprisingly healing and deeply cleansing. I made some important discoveries regarding self-healing. Our bodies are amazing.

My heart showed no signs of pain and there were no worrying symptoms. I credit this in part to my listening *very* closely to my body's desires throughout the experience. For example, the energy of the peyote helped me initiate a short fast from food that was super cleansing.

If anything, my heart/circulation feels *better* now, 36 hours after the experience.

Next time I will do more! Yee
 
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