Opioid withdrawal hell.... again!

[steewith2ees]

hehe i still never risked breaking one of mine by actually putting my money where my mouth is and standing on one of the platters. I just take it as fact re: the actual Technics demo of this particular test of the machines 'parameters'.

Well, if you feel good now then just lap it up. Rough with the smooth and vice versa.

 

[ClemFandango]

Hmm, well I must admit I cracked the gear out this morning. Went for a cycle with the fam, and even though it wasn't much (12.5 miles at a leisurely pace) I decided things were getting a bit rough for 30mg DHC. Didn't smoke much and haven't touched it since. Would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy myself though, so admittedly I was very much more on the 'high' side of things than just 'maintaining'. Oh well, will take a couple of smokes out the bag and move the rest to the garage attic while my parents are out this evening. That way I'll be prepared for feeling rough at an awkward time, I.e. Fathers day meal out.

I suppose the real test of willpower will be avoiding ending up smoking a bunch while I'm in the process of moving it...

If a paltry 30mg of DHC was enough to hold you, you've fucked it now by getting back on the heroin. Almost back to where you were a week ago.

I don't get it why people who fear opioid withdrawals so much bother buying gear. The physical rattle you would have gone through jumping off that 30mg of DHC would've been minimal. Seems you fear the psychological aspect of opioid withdrawals a lot.

As for chipping gear whether you've relapsed or not: as Steve said, you can happily go on a 2-day opioid bender without suffering any noticeable withdrawals. So enjoy whatever gear you've bought without your irrational fear of mild withdrawals.

Just like people who don't drink alcohol because they cannot deal with any severity of hangover, the same thing goes with opioids.

 

[ordinary mind]

I'm not sure I'd agree 30mg dhc was really holding me to a sustainable level tho, in fact the reason i said i broke into the h WAS because 30mg would not have been reasonable for that bike ride. I tapered so quickly was because I was fast running out - 3 30mg remaining. I did admit a couple of days ago that 75mg, split in 2 doses 12 hours apart was pretty symptom free, but that hardly suggests a I wouldn't have been in hot water a day or couple of days later.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not really going about this in the most ideal way from a get off gear as quickly and painlessly as possible point of view. But there are certain life circumstances I need to keep in mind.

What's done is done, if a bit of smoke has really undone the weeks progress then so be it. But I think I may have given the impression i made more progress than I actually did by the fast rate that I tapered due to limited supplies.

 

[ClemFandango]

I'm not sure I'd agree 30mg dhc was really holding me to a sustainable level tho, in fact the reason i said i broke into the h WAS because 30mg would not have been reasonable for that bike ride. I tapered so quickly was because I was fast running out - 3 30mg remaining. I did admit a couple of days ago that 75mg, split in 2 doses 12 hours apart was pretty symptom free, but that hardly suggests a I wouldn't have been in hot water a day or couple of days later.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not really going about this in the most ideal way from a get off gear as quickly and painlessly as possible point of view. But there are certain life circumstances I need to keep in mind.

What's done is done, if a bit of smoke has really undone the weeks progress then so be it. But I think I may have given the impression i made more progress than I actually did by the fast rate that I tapered due to limited supplies.

It's still a very small amount which was holding you to a sufficient level. I don't know if you can take weekends off while doing this project of yours, but seeing as though you were doing well and had tapered to a very low dose, you could've jumped off completely and spent the weekend with a few sniffles.

There's no way I could dose a bag of gear in levels small enough to just hold me. I could just about use DHC tablets to taper/hold with as they have little recreational value even in idiot doses, IME.

It just seems you worry way too much about, what would have been, rather minor withdrawal symptoms.

Also, if you had a place of your own, do you reckon you would be able to resist ordering from DNMs?

You should rent a post box while you're living at your parents' house.

 

[ordinary mind]

It's still a very small amount which was holding you to a sufficient level. I don't know if you can take weekends off while doing this project of yours, but seeing as though you were doing well and had tapered to a very low dose, you could've jumped off completely and spent the weekend with a few sniffles.

There's no way I could dose a bag of gear in levels small enough to just hold me. I could just about use DHC tablets to taper/hold with as they have little recreational value even in idiot doses, IME.

It just seems you worry way too much about, what would have been, rather minor withdrawal symptoms.

Also, if you had a place of your own, do you reckon you would be able to resist ordering from DNMs?

You should rent a post box while you're living at your parents' house.

Well there was one particular element of the project that had to be done by Monday. I got that finished today, so I guess I can relax a bit (although I will still require to dedicate about 50hrs per week to it). However, there is also the element that my mum has agreed to financially invest in the project 50/50 with me. She did this as a goodwill gesture rather than necessity, but what she doesn't know is that I would not be able to afford what I'm doing without her contribution. I have quite a bit less money in my account than I should because of the amount that I've spent on drugs. Plus, if my mum was to find out I've been using, I think it is likely that the gesture of goodwill wont happen... I'm starting to come round to the suspicion that I shouldn't be expecing withdrawal symptoms as bad as my butyr fent ones were. I based a lot of my panic buying gear decision on the basis that I couldn't realistically just happen to get another really bad case of norovirus/gastric flu. That would raise too many questions, in my opinion.

In regards to the "no way I could dose a bag of gear in levels small enough to hold me", while I see your point, that is why I am being careful with keeping it out of arms reach. I buy the more expensive high end DNM UK number 3. When I was using recently, I would go through between half a gram and 1g in a day. I didn't have time to get the miligram scales out this morning, but it really was a little 40-60mg pile of gear. While it has easily gone way further than 30mg DHC would have, I think you might be overestimating how much of a set back it really was.

Could I resist ordering from DNMs if I had a place of my own? I'm assuming you mean could I resist heroin, the answer is yes: I crave regular intoxication, but I like things other than opiates too like psyches and dissociatives. By living at home, I kind of get stuck with whatever I have in my stash for periods of time, plus I don't get much opportunity to trip, use dissociatives, stims (although I'm not a big stim guy anyway).... hell, I even have to be careful with weed. For whatever reason, my parents never seem to notice when I'm high on opiates. They're quite drug naiive so I guess they just don't know the signs to look out for, and generally speaking I'm pretty functional and at worst have nodded out a bit while watching TV in the same room and just blamed it on tiredness. But I can honestly say one of the main reasons I'm in this mess after buying the stupid amount of butyr fentanyl was because it was an affordable substance that would last in my stash a long time, which I could use around the house.

I've considered a post box, unfortunately the financial situation isn't as forgiving as it once was given that I have to invest money in something and am now unemployed.

 

[ordinary mind]

Just found 12 more DHC tablets in my work bag from before the most recent h binge. Wish I'd known earlier, but feel they will probably come in very useful this week.

Have to admit the taper was a bit screwed this weekend. I didn't go too mental, but all things considered I admit doing more of the h than I'd have liked. Ran out of working lighters and I don't know if I'll get to the shops for a day or 2, so that will deter me somewhat (I actually tried sniffing a bit at fathers day meal and it was more effective than I realised, and I've done a bit of number 4 too and found the small amount sniffed seemed in a similar potency range.)

Back to tapering DHC tomorrow, but if it wasn't for the fact I bhave no income at the moment, along with living with parents complicating scoring from the naughty web, I would probably be tempted back into regular use. It is just too damn lovely for its own good !

 

[consumer]

Unfortunately persevering with it from my experience (well from what i have seen friends go through) is that it never ends well. Pretty much everyone i know that used it is now either dead, in prison , still using and barely recognisable or managed to give up and get the fuck away from it before it was too late. In my experience it does not have a good track record for positive outcomes. Drugs are great but should be the spice in the meal of life rather than the meal itself..

 

[ordinary mind]

Feel free to fire any "I told you so"'s my way because they are totally warranted.

I've spent the last week pretty much solidly on heroin again. 2 grams of high quality stuff over the week, not totally caining it by past standards, but I did remain opiated 24/7. Thursday night was my last night with heroin, woke up yesterday to the news of the referendum and nothing to smoke. Fuck sake... Anyway, I started back on the DHC yesterday (240mg over the day) and felt mostly fine. I panic bought another gram of h earlier in the day, again, but it didn't arrive and I likely wont get my hands on it (fake name, will be out when post comes on Monday, parents will probably return it to sorting office). Probably for the best, as this is no longer a habit I can keep up from a financial standpoint, not to mention the amount of time and energy I've put into it recently....

So I have 8 30mg DHC left, but I want at least 4 of them for an interview/meet and greet type event I have to attend on Monday. So I went out shopping and got myself a box of paramol (already CWE'd, rather poorly, and consumed 8)), and a whoooooooole bunch of loperamide. I also found a bottle of DXM containing syrup for 1-12 year olds that must have been lying at the back of the drawer in the bathroom for many years. 5mg DXM per 5ml, also contains 0.6mg of an antihistamine of which name currently eludes me. I know downing cough syrup is potentially very dangerous, but I am curious as to whether low dose DXM might have any benefit in my situation? A bit of googling suggests it was found to be helpful during withdrawals.

Anyway, my current plan is to try and avoid anymore DHC today and stick with the lope if I feel anything else today (plus diazepam for sleep, hash, low dose DXM are all options for comfort meds). On Sunday, I will similarly try to use as little as possible, but maybe switch back to the DHC as I don't want lingering effects from the lope blocking the DHC on the Monday when I really need to be at my best. Does this sound reasonable?

How long would, say, 40mg loperamide stave off withdrawal symptoms for?

How, if at all, would it be best to implement low doses of DXM into this regime, either to potentiate the low doses of opioids or mask symptoms?

EDIT: The goal here is basically to detox as comfortably as possible. I have important things to attend on Monday and preparation to do over the weekend, but after that I think would be the best time to entirely cease opioid consumption.

EDIT 2: Well as usual I've gone and done probably the least sensible thing and took the lot of DXM. Worked out there weren't any serious issues with the other ingredients in the syrup, and my dose was somewhere around 100mg so nothing too wild, still enjoying a nice slight detatched euphoria which will hopefully see me through the day without the need to take any more opioid type drugs.

 

[Tryptamite]

total complete drug addict in the making. its like looking at my thought process 6 years ago. it doesnt get any better :/

 

[Tryptamite]

btw what age are you/what are you doing/planning on doing with yoyr life. a h habit is pretty unrealistic with a full time job. youll be broke ALL the time. crime or wheeling/dealing are a necessity. make something of yourself BEFORE you fuck up and lose your parents help. eventually they give up and its hard to go to university on yor own and spending half your time maintaining and the other half sick. theres lots mre to life

 

[ordinary mind]

btw what age are you/what are you doing/planning on doing with yoyr life. a h habit is pretty unrealistic with a full time job. youll be broke ALL the time. crime or wheeling/dealing are a necessity. make something of yourself BEFORE you fuck up and lose your parents help. eventually they give up and its hard to go to university on yor own and spending half your time maintaining and the other half sick. theres lots mre to life

I'm a bit older than you think, based on that post... 23. I've done the whole uni/postgrad thing, been living back at home since I started having seizures and told my parents about my benzo abuse just over a year ago. In all honesty I probably would have wanted to get away from my parents again after I tapered off the benzos, but my Mum was really shook up by the whole thing and I think it will probably take her a while to feel confident in me not being a danger to myself. That has left me in a limbo living somewhere I'd rather not struggling to find work that I am (not to be cocky, but) completely overqualified for. I really don't know whether I would have ended up taking more or less drugs now if I had moved out again a year ago and tried to create an environment for myself that I am happy in. Truthfully though, I think I'd probably be in much more of a mess than I am now if I wasn't under the watchful eyes of my parents. Ha, that makes my situation sound a lot more intense than it really is, they're obviously not that watchful considering I've managed to get through about 5k (?) worth of drugs or more in the last year, and they have only caught me out a handful of times.

I really am trying to get out of this rut. That is why I have been asking for advice here in the first place.

And as I've alluded to quite a bit in the thread, I am trying to make something of myself. Obviously it hasn't been straightforward juggling maintaining/using and real world responsibilities (lots going on right now), but after Monday I will have 3 weeks where I don't have to meet with anyone important other than the parents (I will still be expected to do 50 hours per week of work from home, however). After those 3 weeks, I will be doing 9 to 5 so I really do have to detox now.

My biggest worry is the mislabelled envelope of heroin arrives on Monday and is left out overnight. If it is, I will almost definitely end up steaming it open and using it. That really is how pathetic my willpower is.

If the envelop is taken away, I won't try buying anymore, I have enough financial worries atm as it is.

IF ONLY I HAD TALKED TO FRANK.

 

[ClemFandango]

You won't be buying anymore after taking your latest mislabeled package of gear? Yeah right. We know that's not going to happen.

You play about with heroin and fentanyl analogues etc. but are so shit-scared about a few days of withdrawals. Working out in true OCD style how you're going to try and stave off the inevitable... It's starting to sound a bit old by now.

Either get on some maintenance treatment if opioid withdrawals scare you so much -- or just grow a pair, cluck for a week and get on with your mysterious Project X.

Good luck, whatever path you choose to go down.

 

[ordinary mind]

You won't be buying anymore after taking your latest mislabeled package of gear? Yeah right. We know that's not going to happen.

You play about with heroin and fentanyl analogues etc. but are so shit-scared about a few days of withdrawals. Working out in true OCD style how you're going to try and stave off the inevitable... It's starting to sound a bit old by now.

Either get on some maintenance treatment if opioid withdrawals scare you so much or just grow a pair, cluck for a week and get on with your mysterious Project X.

Good luck, whatever path you choose to go down.

TBH I know it must be getting boring to read my moaning. I resurrected this thread a few posts back because I had some questions that I had struggled to find conclusive answers through searching, none of which anybody bothered to answer.

My plan is to go through with the detox starting Monday assuming I don't get that mislabelled package - I definitely won't be buying more because I need the money elsewhere. If I do get my hands on the mislabelled package, then honestly I probably will end up using it. One way or another I will have to go completely opioid free, either starting Monday afternoon or when the next gram runs out.

Sorry for boring you, but I did have my reasons for staving off the inevitable this last week or two. I won't update this thread again until I am completely opioid free.


EDIT: BTW my mysterious project X is enrolling in an intensive government funded coding course with a guaranteed job as a junior software developer at the end of it. My mum has agreed to pay half the cost, which is why I have been so keen to my use secret from her. I don't know why I was so secretive about what my 'project x' was ha, I guess since I'd uploaded pics of myself on the site (which are now down) my paranoia got the better of me..... but that's what it is. Its something I really want to do, and will hopefully help me start a more fulfilling life.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Age is irrelevant. Once that ball gathers momentum, it ain't stopping until it gets to the bottom - and it's a fuck of a long way back out of that hole...

It's 21 years since I admitted I was addicted - 20 years of dependence and 1 year clean. I still feel like I'm waking up from a bad dream, and still have a long way to go.

Put the brakes on that ball now, before it's allowed to run its course.


Oh, and when you finally start attempting to crawl out of the hole that you've dug for yourself, don't think that you can risk a cheeky little toot every now and then - it doesn't work like that. Every little fling you have will fling you right back onto your arse again.

 

[ordinary mind]

I said I was only going to update this thread once I'm clean. I'm only technically on day 5 or 6, but I think I can put this saga to bed for now. For whatever reason my withdrawals have been very mild, whereas my butyr fentanyl withdrawals not long ago were crippling. I think it is probable that, while heroin binges between DHC maintenance is hardly ideal, up to about 10 (or more, I wasn't keeping a note...) unweighed doses of pure butyr fent every day for 2 months was simply pushing my opioid tolerance to a much more extreme degree. I was expecting something much worse, so sorry for any frustration I've caused during this thread by asking one thing then doing something completely different.

Anyway, I'm feeling a bit bored but I know I cant afford drugs at the moment, so for now I wouldn't even really say I'm craving opioids much.

Thanks to everyone that added input to this thread, regardless of how I might have responded I did find them all helpful in improving my perspective of the situation.

 

[Tryptamite]

Don't want to sound like I'm lecturing but unless you decide to go hard or go home I think anyone with a habit id experience will try to give you advice.

Financial issues won't be a concern in the future you will always find money for drugs. And boredom is a perfect excuse for getting wasted and starting the cycle again.

I thiñk you should have a think about what your limits are for opiate use in the future and perhaps post them here to see if they are realistic. If they aren't maybe rethink them. If they are good make sure you stick to them.
Honestly I think beyond codeine/dhc you should probably leave them alone.

You have had at least two bouts of wds one extremely rough another surprisingly easy. When you've done 10 full wds and many times that light sicknesses they get worse as you go along and you get so tired of being sick even the light sickness you don't have the strength to undertake.

The poster above you is right. If you fuck around with fire you will get burned. However it's easy to be curious and make mistakes and I know how frightening the prospect of opiate wds can be

 

[ordinary mind]

Yeah I totally realise I have to actively reassess my limits with drugs in general really. While I know the financial issues won't last forever, I have another 2 weeks before I start my 16 week course, after which it could be up to 6 weeks until I'm in employment and another month before I get my first pay cheque. I can assure you after the stress of the last weeks I am way too stubborn to ask my parents for money (I should have loads by their reckoning), so I will be living on a shoestring for a while. I won't really have money for anything but travel, I'm going to try to just live off whatever food we have in the house and it is going to put an awkward block on simple things like going out for a pint with co-coursemates and things like that.

But it will give me plenty of time to think, and perhaps more importantly, experience more of life sober and let the ol' receptors heal.

If I think of a preplanned limitation for future opioid use then I'll post it. At the moment I simultaneously think the idea of never using opiates again is preposterous, but the idea of repeating the same mistakes also is.

The last bit of your comment amused me: during my last, much rougher wd, while I was lying awake during the long nights I got this old imaginary rock'n'roll song stuck in my head that just went: "You play with fire you gonna get burnt, you play with fire you gonna get burnt...." Over and over and over.