Opioid withdrawal hell.... again!

[ordinary mind]

]j ilyu So anyone on the board that has been following my recent posts probably already has a rough idea of my situation. Following increasing binges on heroin/fentanyl analogues and the likes from between October 2015 and January 2016 I've been experiencing increasingly worse "minor" withdrawal symptoms upon cessation on each occasion. Somewhere around January/February of this year I began using kratom daily, which I soon switched to a 2 month period of daily butyr-fentanyl abuse. I detoxed from that several weeks ago now, and can say for certain that the withdrawals on that occasion were no longer "minor"... think 5-7 days of sleepless/inability to eat/pain/restlessness/the energy of a pensioner in the terminal ward etc etc etc. This all happened in my parents house while both they and a house guest were present, and I managed to convince them that what I was experiencing was a bad case of norovirus/gastric flu.

Fast forward a couple of weeks and my parents are off on holiday. Without a second thought I ordered enough strong number 3 heroin for the week (among some coke and other drugs) and 3 boxes of DHC to taper off with. This plan largely went without a hitch, save for the fact that the Friday before last I was fired for my constant lethargy at work (wasn't even on DHC the day I was fired... was told that because I was on probationary period I have no right to appeal).

So my parents were off to Paris the following Wednesday, and as I had the Monday and Tuesday booked off beforehand anyway, I decided to just not tell them until they returned.... and binge once more on opiates and coke in the intervening time. My DHC ran out on the Tuesday, and more heroin (and coke, and U47700 and a whole barrage of other drugs arrived on the Wednesday). So the Wednesday, Thursday and Friday were spent using a fair bit of heroin, as well as a bit of U47700.

Parents return late Friday night, and I tell them the news of my getting fired on the Saturday. They were so sympathetic that I can't believe I made such a fuss out of nothing. What a fucking idiot I am.

Any help or advice?

Problem is, as far as my parents are aware, I'm still drug free. I also have an open day at a coding course on Thursday which my mum says she'll help pay towards if I do. Great! Except I am down to about 2/3 decent sized doses of U-47700 and a single box of DHC. I also have diazepam and a little bit of ketamine for comfort drugs, and could easily obtain loperamide.

However, I'm not sure this will be enough. I've been using decent sized doses of U-47700 frequently throughout the day and I'm definitely feeling withdrawal onset symptoms (I asked my mum, who is usually always complaining about it being cold, if she could turn up the heating earlier as it was like living in a fridge... heating was on full blast the whole time). Also, constipation is no longer an issue, and appetite is not quite what it was... and this is still with strong opioids in my system!!!

Any advice on what to do? I obviously can't get another bad case of norovirus without raising red flags, and that would interfere with my ability to do coursework and attend Thursdays open day. The only opioids I can score locally are cocodamol and paramol, and there are a limited number of chemists nearby. I can't find any friends that live nearby that will let me order to their place, and my parents are clued up on drugs in the post. I've heard people mentioning bupe maintenance, but I' guessing that can't be arranged before Thursday:

Af he

 

[steewith2ees]

If you are in the UK OM and you intend to approach your local statutory drug service provider for substitute prescribing you will need to go through a thorough referral process before you even get in front of a prescribing doctor. If you are successful in getting a substitute prescription it will be 6 weeks on average at the minimum before you have a prescription for methadone or buprenorphine in your hand reday for dispensation.

And that is if you get on the case first thing in the morning.

Do it if you genuinely want any control with this, but you will have to manage on your current opiates in the meantime. If things get really desperate and you are waiting on your DSP to start you on some treatment you can always resort to performing CWE's as a short term stop gap, or look at the use of loperamide in the management of opiate withdrawal..

 

[ordinary mind]

Was having a bit of a problem with the keyboard on the house computer so moved to laptop. Sorry if the original post came out a bit mangled, but I think it pretty adequetly summarises the situation. I've just taken what will probably be the penultimate dose of U47700 with a bump of ket, plus 10mg diazepam. I'm shattered and planning for an early night before insomnia kicks in, would have ideally dosed some DHC instead of the U-329847294872394723498whatever but I want to rectally dose do get the most out of the small amount I have, and to cut a long story short, my arsehole is feeling a bit raw now that I am not quite so constipated.

I know DHC bioavailability is about 20% oral, anyone know rectal bioavailability?
If I was to dose lorasepam in conjunction with DHC, would this decrease symptoms more (I don't care about feeling high, just need to be as functional and well as possible)

I suppose another possibility is order opis from a NDD vendor (plenty I know) for a day when I know my parents are busy and man the postbox like a mofo. Of course, they might find out... but if my withdrawal syndrome is going to be as bad/worse than last time, then it is already inevible that they are going to find out.

I'm not really sure what I'm expecting with this thread, I've already pretty much listed out my options and its down to me to choose, but if any of the more experienced members of the community want to chime in with how they think I should best tackle the situation, I would be incredibly greatful for the advice.

As for tonight, I'm running low on ket (where the fuck did that 3.5g go when the first 2 lines had me spannered for half a day??) but I might try and anethnetise myself enough to plug DHC (assuming the bioavailability difference makes this worthwhile in the first place). Otherwise I'm just going to have to hope sheer tiredness, diazepam and a reasonably recent dose of an annoyingly short acting opioid will hold me through the night.


Not gonna lie, I'm pretty scared, when I started taking heroin again after the butyr fent detox, I actually managed to convince myself that I was just chipping..... it wasn't till I started waking up with mild withdrawal symptoms and then read englandz post in gibberings that I realised I've been deluding myself the whole time.

It's never simple with me is it.....

 

[ordinary mind]

Cheers for the reply stee..... yep in Scotland, and yeah I thought the maintanence route seemed like a long shot given the circumstances and time frame I've provided. Thought I'd give it a mention as I'd seen it suggested to me by other posters, but probably don't want to go down that route at this point if it isn't going to help my functionality at present.

Guess I'll wait and see how I feel in the morning. I'm guessing I will either be spending tomorrow stocking up on paramol and loperamide, or just fuck it and order opis to the house.

Gah, this is an absolutely dire situation, the irony being with the short acting dialudid rush effect of U44fucking3343whatever I'm actually surprisingly chirpy right after doses...... even though I know all hell is about to break loose.

At least I'm slighly more prepared than last time...

 

[steewith2ees]

OM, your going to get it both barrels mate whatever unless you can afford to continue your habit. Taking other non opiate drugs (apart from perhaps a sensible short course of a long acting benzodiazepine for anxeity and relaxation) will only muddy the situation and make you feel more poorly. You are best off just facing up to a rattle, or if you can't handle it without anything the lope and paramol is the only option and the use of these will only make the some of the symptoms less severe, while they will drag out the syndrome even longer as your are still continuing to tickle your receptors.

 

[ordinary mind]

OM, your going to get it both barrels mate whatever unless you can afford to continue your habit. Taking other non opiate drugs (apart from perhaps a sensible short course of a long acting benzodiazepine for anxeity and relaxation) will only muddy the situation and make you feel more poorly. You are best off just facing up to a rattle, or if you can't handle it without anything the lope and paramol is the only option and the use of these will only make the some of the symptoms less severe, while they will drag out the syndrome even longer as your are still continuing to tickle your receptors.

Was the first part of your comment in regards to the ketamine? I was under the impression it has been used with quite some success at reducing opiate withdrawal symptoms. It is an anaesthetic afterall, and I actually have experience of trying this before when I was on the butyr fent and my parents were away for a weekend (obviously I relapsed when they returned). Other than that, the only other drugs I've mentioned are opioids, benzoes and lope, which as far as I can tell you have recommended each? Sorry, I'm not trying to argue here, just trying to understand your point when you mentioned the "taking other non opiate drugs apart from long acting benzos)", as apart from the ket I had absolutely no intention of doing so.

Obviously the facing up to a rattle is complicated by personal matters and responsibilities within the next week, although if I wake up tomorrow and decide it'll be easy enough/possible to get through the next few days with what little meds I have then than is what I'll do.

I know the lope and DHC will lenthen the overall period of suffering, but as I say this isn't the most ideal time to just become a writhing mess.

(Of course, I know there is at least a part of me that wants to go down the order more route because that is the addict in me talking.... I mostly see the rational in everything you've posted)

 

[steewith2ees]

I have heard many anecdotal reports that some people have found Ketamine helpful dring heroin w/d, but I have never taken it ever for any reason, and IMO you really need to to start cutting down your drug use if you want to clean your head out.

 

[ordinary mind]

I have heard many anecdotal reports that some people have found Ketamine helpful dring heroin w/d, but I have never taken it ever for any reason, and IMO you really need to to start cutting down your drug use if you want to clean your head out.

You're definitely right there.... problem is I'm so conflicted in whether I actually want to stop taking drugs. My body says yes but my mind says.... also yes. My practical life situation unfortunately says no. I've only got a small amount of ket left so can only use it sparingly as needed anyway.... it seems to have been helpful today, but it is really difficult to say seeing as I am so unfamiliar with the U4-007. I have just under half a bitcoin sitting in a DNM account which makes it all the more tempting to snoop out my parents schedules and just get more opiates for the time being (even if part of that order is a big heap of DHC to taper with).

Cheers for the responses btw man, it really means a lot to me. You seem like a real genuine dude, and I wish you all the best in your own endeavours that I've read about

 

[steewith2ees]

Even if u have no intention of stopping using drugs - it's clear that if u ever want to enjoy any of them again you need to give ur hed and body a break asap fella.....

 

[ordinary mind]

You're right mate, I know you are. I hope you don't feel like I'm dismissing your advice, because I for the most part it has been incredibly helpful.

I will say that personally I find the ket has been helpful (and as I say I'm not caning it), so as far as I'm concerned it can be lumped in with the comfort drugs for now. I'm also very experienced with it, and have good quality material, which of course makes things more straightforward in that department.

I guess my dillema is whether to risk trying to use that half btc, or go the DHC, CWE and lope route, or who knows, maybe the wds won't be as bad as I anticipate. The bottom line is, I'd rather take action now and get clean later than let nature take its ugly course now and be unable to prepare for and attend a potential career defining opportunity. Another priority is keeping the drug use from my mum (I know how childish this sounds, but I love her to bits and I know it would break her heart). So I'm gonna sleep on it, as making any DNM orders now vs tomorrow morning aint gonna make any difference anyway.

Maybe I'll get lucky and it won't be as bad as last time. I have my doubts though.

Right. 30mg diaz, small bottle of beer and glass of wine (I know this is stupid, but its kind of dinner tradtion in this house, and I'm trying to avoid raising alarm as long as possible...... plus it worked just right with the diaz) and the penultimate final dose of U45678999 (will probably get another dose scraping the bag tomorrow) mixed with a bump of ket. Feeling pretty good, going to see if what I can gather from any tablets/phones/calanders my parents have left lying about (god I feel like the scum of the earth) and then a legitimate early night tonight I think...... no last minute k holes :D. Still not sure I'm anethnatized enough to get my self to shove an oral syringe of DHC up my arse so I'm just going to have to hope exhaustion, diaz and what lingering short acting opi I have left in my system.

Suppose there'd be no harm in prepping say 90mg DHC in an oral syringe and leave it on my bedside cabinet incase I get woken up prematurely.

Right.... that's probably all from me for tonight. Will keep in touch with how the situation progresses. Cheers stee for everything you've offered so far, you really don't know how much it means to me (I mean I'm obviously emotionally imalanced anyway, but it literally did bring a tear to my eye one of your posts.... so thanks for reaching out is what I'm saying)

 

[ordinary mind]

Oh and a final point, if I were to spend that half bitcoin - it would go entirely on opiods, mostly for tapering. So I do intend to give my head and body a rest as you say.... unfortunately there may be the storm of opiate withdrawal that precedes that rest...

 

[steewith2ees]

Ive done about 12 successful Cold Turkeys since I first developed a heroin dependency but only about 4 or 5 of them stuck for any significant length of time - most of the time I'd go out and score to celebrate and would relapse within less than a week.

The ones that took for 6 months or more were motivated by external factors like my girlfriend, job etc and as I only ever used heroin (the only long acting opioids I have ever used were AH - 7921 and Methadone Linctus) It was always awful but I would find myself well on the mend by day 5 and back on my feet by the 7th. It was always sharp and sore but due to using nothing more than throwing a couple of 2mg Rivotrils down my neck twice a day its always been fairly short.

I've never suffered with PAWS as I have either relapsed before they have had a chance to really manifest themselves or I have had a life to get on with on the occasions the detoxes stuck. But because I never addressed the mental aspects of my addiction relapse has been and always was inevitable - even after a 'clean' spell that lasted over 3 years - all it takes is a personal disaster or 4 before dickhead goes running back to the pin and the roll of foil.

That's why, 12 years after I first got hooked by the line I surrendered to a higher power (the local DSP I'm not on a 12 step or something) and was prescribed a ridiculously large dose of methadone - 60mls - which I felt was well OTT as at the time I presented I was only using on a average 2 bags of medium weak gear daily.

But the Doc got it spot on - after dropping 6 months of dirty samples my meth was increased to 70ml - a 'therapeutic dose' that saturated my opiate receptors to the degree that using street heroin was pointless as It wouldn't have an effect now matter howmuch I took. That meant that I could only get high on a Sunday as I could miss all my w/e takehomes and then achieve a heroin high on a Sunday night by shooting a couple of points before I could top the buzz up by chasing the rest. Bit extreme but the method to the madness was superb - over the year or so I was on the blocking dose my heroin use gradually decreased 7 fold as I could only get high once a week instead of a money dependant potential of 7. Because of my behaviour change my use has steadily decreased to the point where even tho I'm now finally reducing I only score once every 2 or 3 weeks at the most. Its still far from perfect but overall it has reduced my usage by about 93% which is impressive from a personal stand point.

Far play if u find the ket helpful as a comfort med but remember it's still the most physically toxic drug out of the 3 I have mentioned and it sounds like you have been blasting it for a while anyway so just remember to take it easy and not damage you water works.

Why dont you try and let yourself get a sick as you can before using any 'smash glass for emergencies' type supplies you may have so you get a clear picture of how you are going to feel, how much of it you can take and the minimum amount of comfort meds you may need (b e they opiate/opioid, benzodiazepine or dissociative) to just about get yourself right again.

I never feel really clean unless I have been through a ruff CT.

Good luck with the day and the week and I hope you don't end up feeling too dodj.

Stee xx

 

[ordinary mind]

Just going to type out a little update and reply to the above.

I must have been exhausted as when I went to bed last night (feeling probably a bit 'too comfortable' from the comfort meds) I slept for a solid 5 hours before having to redose a small amount of U-47700. I then managed to sleep for another 4 hours solid until my mum woke me up banging on the door at half 11 lol. Oh well, fair play to her she has no idea of the situation.

Scraped the bag of U-47700 (tiny amount left) and ate breakfast without violently throwing it up 10 minutes later (I guess I shouldn't look too far into that seeing as I'm still using opiates).

I've decided to start out a taper regimen of 120mg DHC dosed rectally probably twice a day. I'll start dropping the dose by 30 mg maybe every couple of days - this is all guess work at the moment and I'll see how I feel and judge the situation from there. I'm aiming for feeling a bit shit but well enough to do my pre-coursework and application. It actually turns out the welcome briefing is a week on Thursday, which somewhat complicates matters... not really sure whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, but I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

In regards to the ket, I get where you're coming from but while it's certainly the most physically toxic, that only really counts for long term heavy abuse. I've used it plenty in the past, and probably bought it maybe 4 times this year (after a year or so of complete abstinence due to the drought....) so I'm not anywhere near bladder trouble stage yet. It's actually the diazepam that worries me the most due to past benzo abuse, I'll try to stick to that in the evenings for sleep purposes.

I have a couple of questions at this point....

First of all, I am assuming that rectal dosage of DHC is superior to the 20% bioavailability of oral, so have been using that route. However, rectal dosing is somewhat complicated by the 'loose stool' issues of wd obviously might make this more difficult. I believe loperamide blocks the high of opoiods used in conjunction.... does it also block the relief from withdrawals?

Also, if I do get manage to a stage where I've tapered to say 30-45mg DHC twice a day, will the final jump off to no opioids leave me a wreck or will it be similar to tapering down from say 90mg to 60 mg?

Thanks

 

[ordinary mind]

Hmmmmmm.... I've done a bit of research into DHC rectal bioavailability, and while I've not found any conclusive answers the thing that is sticking out is that it will of course have a shorter action. Perhaps I should stick to oral?

 

[Fug]

I would just stick to oral personally.

If you taper down from 120mg twice daily, to 30mg twice daily, I'm guessing at most you'll have a day or two of sweats/chills maybe some stomach cramping and that's about it.

What have been your worst symptoms of withdrawal so far? What happens if you miss a day?

Depending on the severity of your habit, I would either just C/T and ride it out or get onto subutex maintenance if this is going to be a persisting problem. Only you know.

 

[BigG]

I would just stick to oral personally.

If you taper down from 120mg twice daily, to 30mg twice daily, I'm guessing at most you'll have a day or two of sweats/chills maybe some stomach cramping and that's about it.

What have been your worst symptoms of withdrawal so far? What happens if you miss a day?

Fug talks sense...

Stick to oral. Follow the things I pmd you.

One other thing is there is no underestimating mental attitude. When the bad feelings come you can either lay there as say "oh my God this is terrible" or say "yeah this is had but you know what? I can take it....fuck it.. Bring it on cunt!!" you have to actually mean it though...

Youd be surprised how much that helps.

 

[ordinary mind]

I would just stick to oral personally.

If you taper down from 120mg twice daily, to 30mg twice daily, I'm guessing at most you'll have a day or two of sweats/chills maybe some stomach cramping and that's about it.

What have been your worst symptoms of withdrawal so far? What happens if you miss a day?

Depending on the severity of your habit, I would either just C/T and ride it out or get onto subutex maintenance if this is going to be a persisting problem. Only you know.

Difficult to say as I haven't had an opiate free day since relapsing from the butyr-fent habit. I was just on U-47700 all of yesterday (i.e. no heroin in addition, quite a bit less overall opiate receptor tickling) and was getting pretty bad chills, reduced appetite and loose stools. Got a pretty decent sleep thanks to 30mg diazepam and exhaustion, but did have to redose about 5 hours in.

Today I finished off the U-47700 and plugged 120mg DHC and have actually been reasonably fine apart from a bit of lethargy. I'm gonna try and save the diaz for night time and the ket for the later stages of withdrawal.

Based on what you've said and a message from BigG, I'm gonna switch to oral with the DHC with a bit of grapefruit juice for potentiation as there is so little info on rectal DHC.

In regards to going C/T, it really is a matter of trying to juggle important responsibilities and trying to remain undercover with my parents constantly around. My recent use hasn't really been THAT severe all things considered, but keeping in mind this two week binge occurred a couple of weeks after detoxing off a 2 month heavy butyr fentanyl habit (which directly followed a couple months daily kratom use) I think cold turkey is probably going to be debilitating. I don't doubt that this opioid abuse could end up a persisting problem, but I'll consider the maintenance options when I have more time on my hands.


Another update to the situation: as it is bin day for our street tomorrow, I stooped to a new low and got out all the bin bags I put in there the other week and removed the mountains of foil and hid them in my room. Gross I know, probably paints a picture of how desperate I am to try and maintain a semi-functional life at the moment. Most of it is obviously junk, but as I was being pretty wasteful there is definitely some active on there. I also have the pen casing I was using to chase with, I imagine there is probably a way of breaking it open and scraping out the multitude of brown residue. I also snooped through the calendars on my parents tablets to see if there will be any days in the next week where they will both definitely be out at around the time the post comes: not really but if the situation becomes seriously dire I will consider that.

So I realise having even probably a very small amount of heroin available to me is potentially going to push things backwards, but at least my overall opioid supply is increased (and I have more time on my hands before the situation becomes completely critical with no opioids to use and places to be). If I were to make use of this small disgusting residual stash, would I be best to use it first before going down the DHC taper route, or should I continue as I have and just save it for emergencies. To give an indication, I need to be somewhat functional and working daily until the Friday after next (24).

 

[ordinary mind]

Fug talks sense...

Stick to oral. Follow the things I pmd you.

One other thing is there is no underestimating mental attitude. When the bad feelings come you can either lay there as say "oh my God this is terrible" or say "yeah this is had but you know what? I can take it....fuck it.. Bring it on cunt!!" you have to actually mean it though...

Youd be surprised how much that helps.

Yah I totally get the mind over matter thing, although I'm probably not the best at putting it in practice and as I've said I'm trying to do important things at the moment too. I'll do my best though, I've definitely been through worse (benzo withdrawal!!!!)

Any input on my latest post G?

 

[BigG]

I honestly think you should dump the foil and work out a strategy where you actually know how much you're taking.

One thing though the grapefruit juice is to potentiate the lope not the dhc. Given your circumstances a lope taper sounds the best idea. You could do a taper on your dhc but it would-be short and then go onto lope. You'll be astonished how well lope kills wds. Be careful to taper though as lope wds are no fun.

 

[Fug]

I'd take as little DHC as possible to hold yourself daily until the 24th, tapering down as you go and just try and jump off on the 24th.

Tell people you've got the flu, it'll be over within days. It really is mind over matter, I've been there, I know.

But if you're still rummaging in bins for foil then I don't think you're quite ready to give it up yet...hence the bupe maintenance suggestion.