Idk you can catch a serious nod with fent and some people want that!
Hey Hating, believe it or not, we're actually talking about the same thing. We have all kinds of different substances available to us that will make us "nod". I've nodded on Alcohol, Benzodiazepines, most-definitely Barbiturates and I've nodded off after being awake for two straight days on speed. My point is, nodding is not the be-all, end-all of the experience. In fact, I think when the majority of us visualize being on Opioids, we tend to strive more for being awake, present and being fully able to experience and interprety how the Opioids are affecting us.
"Man my landlord wants that rent and is stressing me the fuck out. I can't wait to get high, watch cartoons and forget that he exists"
I don't know about you, but I'm wanting to experience a world; a thought process, where things like my landlord bounce off and run down my skin like a Teflon leather. Nodding off certainly isn't a terrible thing. As addicts we are obviously going to prefer nodding off, that is, overshooting the mark and getting a little too intoxicated over a rattling sickness. Still, I think we are all hoping to find ourselves somewhere in the middle, fully able to appreciate the effects of the drugs. I think nodding is also a welcome result for many, as at least it implies you didn't get burned and you have decent shit.
So yea, I think we are actually talking about the same phenomena here. Both Fentanyl and Heroin and indeed all of the Mu Opioid agonists are going to cause you to nod when you use that certain dosage. What we are saying, is that in between being "normal" and being "intoxicated", the psychological effects, primarily, have a different character. Fentanyl is not like Dorothy laying down in a field of poppies and her whole world turning to beautiful color. It's more like watching the tin man do his dance, which for some, is entertaining, but not the same.
I guarantee you that all the Oxys are not fake. I just picked up 130 of the 20mg pills at my pharmacy for $19.
Flori, is your avatar Jane Fonda? I'm always thrown when people use famous folks for their avatars and I don't immediately know who they are. Anyways.
We aren't saying that Oxycodone no longer existsts universally. We are just saying that the illicit market for Oxycodone has essentially collapsed and been overtaken by Oxycodone pills labeled as such, but actually containing Fentanyl, Fentanyl analogues or other potent, typically synthetic Opioids. Pills have always been a 'who you know" as opposed to being controlled by large, international drug-trafficking organizations. It was reall only through the insane prescribing practices that foreshadowed the entirety of the Opioid Epidemic that these pills became viable for trafficking in the same way that drugs like Heroin could be.
These markets need infrastructure. No businessman or woman is going to start a business in sales without knowing that their supply is more or less guaranteed, be it for the month, for the year or indefinitely. They can't set up a network for the distribution of X if they are only getting them infrequently or from friends with scripts.
When Oxycontin really kicked off, traffickers finally saw dollar signs along with the notion that supply could be kept relatively stable. Yes, these drugs were still being prescribed by doctors, for people, but there was so much of it on the street, that networks could be established in which the supply would be unlikely to ever completely reach zero. If you run out of drugs, your clients look elsewhere and possibly forget you. So for these guys to go to the trouble of establishing their supply chain and sales force only for it to periodically collapse and potentially rob them of customers, would not be sensible.
Oxycontin 80mg tablets became the standard. There were other strengths out there obviously, but the traffickers made these their standard by which other prices and practices would be based. I'm not going to do prices here obviously, but assuming that your dope is 30% pure, which it probably is or around, the Oxycodone was going for at least 3 times the price. The pill mills made it a true, established trade though. It was not only pill mills that contributed to the massive proliferation of this stuff, but in principle, these clinics highlighted the complete and constant availability of these drugs, which was needed to make and keep business.
Oxycontin specifically began to get a bad rap. Many Opioids were contributing to the problem, but Oxycontin got the spotlight. As prescriptions for the higher dosages of Oxycontin, 30mg Oxycodone w/o Acetaminophen started to fill the gap. These go by names like "Roxies", but are most commonly known simply as "30's". These were sold for a while before the beginning of the massive reeling in of the over-prescribing.
Being that Oxycodone had a reputation for strong sales, someone had the bright idea of just making counterfeit 30mg Oxycodone pills and using other, easily made, potent Opioids. These Opioids are primarily Fentanyl or analogues of it like Carfentanil for instance. This ingenious, yet simply decision, enables them to charge the champagne-level pricing of Oxycodone, while utilizing a drug that can be made for relative peanuts by comparison.\
So I guess my main point is, yes there are definitely still Oxycodone and indeed all Opioids prescribed. They are not completely gone, but there is no longer a market for them on the scale of Heroin. There are not enough prescriptions for the gangs and dealers to to actually say that they have a constant, expected supply. This means no consistent customers. If your customers call and you're repeatedly not good, they will split. Fentanyl was advantageous due to readiy availability of precursors and comparatively less oversight in the chemical industry in general. As most of the Fentanyl coming here is believe to have originated from China.
I haven't really bought or used Opioids from the street in a while, but I know a lot of people who still do. You all probably know how it is when you get sober. You are going to be receiving calls intermittently about the availability, price and etc. regarding specific drugs. "Can you get X"; "I can get X" This or that is available "Hey, I found a lady who wants to sell her Percocet!". These are typically addict to addict connections with dubious regularity or trust. You get a text one day saying this is available, then the next day they're all gone.
If you're trying to establish a drug empire, you want to believe that the next 20 years are planned out and you're confident that supply will not run out. Up and down the foodchain there are users, dealers, traffickers, farmers, gangs and so on are all realities that must be dealt with. Any part of the chain that breaks could mean lost money and/or lost lives. If you're dealing with the Taliban and you fuck up, lose their money or get robbed, you will probably be decapitated. Any stop on the foodchain is a potential robbery or murder for the parties involved. Prices of drugs are high, because people will pay them, but the markup also comes from the fact that these situations are frequently life and death in nature.
With Fentanyl, the people selling it take on a guise of legality and legitimacy, belying the fact that they are selling dangerous drugs illegally. A gram of Fentanyl can be purchased for practically nothing. People don't do it because they're afraid of getting popped, but the ratio from purchase to market could be as much as 100:1 and in some cases, more. These dealers already had a fairly loyal and consistent customer base for 30mg Oxycodone pills, so they naturally just pressed the pills in house and used Fentanyl as the active ingredient
I'm sure very few people complained and many of them were probably thrilled with the fake 30mg's, as they know they got their money's worth and won't be sick. I say this frequently, but using Opioids recreationall and being dependent on them are two completely different things. I firmly believe that the euphoria you get early on from using Opioids eventually disappears and in its place, you have the euphoria of ending your sickness. Don't get me wrong, the euphoria of the latter is real, but it is distinct from the feelings you get when only using Opioids intermittently.
When I was in Cambodia/Iraq, I could pretty much afford to buy all of the drugs I wanted for myself. A gram of dope in Cambodia was about 10%-15% of the cost in Boston and was at the very least, 3 times more potent by weight. I, of course ended up using a ton of it. In addition to that, Benzodiazepines, Methylphenidate (Ritalin) and Gabapentinoids could be bought at any pharmacy without a prescription. If you wanted Pentobarbital (Nembutal) you could go the large animal Veterinarian.
My point though is this: I settled into a habit of using about 2.5 grams of this Heroin per day. Keep in mind that it was significantly more potent than the dope in America. I was constantly falling asleep and hence, began buying Yaa-Baa (Methamphetamine) and using that to get through the school day. Fun fact, I also bought Yaa-Baa from the large animal Veterinarian, which is strange to me, but whatever. I found after doing this for about a week that I wasn't enjoying it. Using 2.5 grams of Heroin ultimately did not actually make me feel the way I wanted it to. My whole usage of Heroin had devolved into a constant nodding and grogginess, without those feeling of euphoria or magic. I550t just felt like I was taking some generic sleeping pill. No euphoria or contentment really, just extremely sedated.
I realized all of this and began using less Heroin. I tapered myself down to what was essentially one gram of this potent dope per day, sometimes less. I did this mostly by doing normal shots AM and PM, but instead of doing a similar sized shot around noon, I would use maybe 20% of that. When I used it sparingly (relatively), I found I had more euphoria, contentment, anxiety relief etc. when I used. It was just completely different.
I'm saying all of this, because I think as addicts, and I'm only speaking for myself here, we inevitably wonder what our lives would be like if we had free reign over our drug consumption i.e. all the drugs you could ever want. I wanted to teach and I'd be a teacher regardless, but I picked both Iraq and Cambodia for posts as I knew that I would be able to get dope. I came and even with a kind of low pay ($750 a week), I almost never had issues with money despite using a lot of drugs. When I had that free reign, the psychology of everything changed for me. It was a revelation of biblical proportions when I realized that I didn't want any more Heroin. I don't mean on a given day or night, in general, I had a thought that I would not use more even if I had it. It was a serious mindfuck.
Without consequences looming over my head (rent, relationships and stuff) and free access to my drugs, I had a very cathartic experience. There was no longer the hustle, the desperation or the fear. Freedom from these anxieties allowed me to turn inward and confront some difficult feelings. I began to think more about myself and my problems both innate and caused by me. My mind was no longer occupied by cravings. This experience for me convinced me once and for all that maintenance using Heroin is frequently necessary. There was indeed a dosage of Heroin that would be TOO MUCH. The question was always regarding TOO LITTLE and its consequences. Now I had more answers.
I'm completely in favor of massive short-acting prescription Opioids for maintenance. I think there is a "sweet spot" for all users at which they can use but still maintain their true selves and functionality in their lives. This leads me to the possiblity of stimulant maintenance. I have been twisting my mind in knots trying to figure out what effective treatments are for addiction to stimulants, primarily Methamphetamine and Crack Cocaine. Methamphetamine is a confirmed neurotoxin and Crack is practically defined by its ability to produce extreme compulsion in users. Methamphetamine seems to mess people up very quickly. It also seems that when individuals are put into stimulant maintenance programs (which are still basically trials), they often continue to use other stimulants on top of them as if they weren't on maintenance.
The question that plagues me, is why does it not work for stimulants, but it seems to be highly effective for Opioid dependence. I have seen a lot of people get sucked in by Meth very recently, so the idea of finding a real treatment for these guys and everyone else is important to me. It pains me, because I am currently leanin very much in the direction of the medical community regarding Meth. It's not good and I'm not sure if it can actually be made good. I feel Opioids can be and have been demonstrated to, but why not stimulants?????
I'm really sorry for the thread hijacking and the long-winded response. I lost track of myself while I was typing.
