Opiate Tolerant People please enter : looking for someone to out tolerate me.

[JoeDobbin]

BEWARE. This thread is not for people looking for a quick "what should I take" based on XYZ Opiates that they have found. The information I am posting in this first post will kill most people (recreational users as well).

I have posted my backstory in other threads. I believe the only update is the hospice company has changed due to my decision. The one I have now is setup to handle my pain 100% and working with my doctor on my other needs.

Current cocktail:
- Delaudid 40mg:1ML mix Pain Management Pump
-- 36 ML per Hour basil rate
-- 44 bolus rate (10 minute time separation / 6 times per hour); average 2 bolus pushes an hour over a 24 hour period (including sleeping time, etc.)
-- infused through a portacath

- Morphine Sulfate
-- 100 mg per 5mL (20mg/mL)
-- 3ml orally per hour

- Lorazapam 2mg/mL
-- 3 mL every 4 hours

- Ketamine 50mg per 1 mL
-- 3mL three times daily (morning, evening, night)

All of this does little for my pain control. The Delaudid is like water; I can reduce or unhook and receive no with drawl at all. Habitually, I push the pain button looking for it to do something, but it doesn't.

The Morphine gives me a short of breath feeling. Yet, I am also told to take the morphine if I ever have short of breath or heart issues. I find that I will take 4 or so hours of it, back to back, per instruction and then I will break for multiple hours.

I use the Lorazapam basically as directed; it helps out with my involuntary body flinches/movements.

The Ketamine is something I do not like. I am backing out of the prescribed values, due to the hallucinations that it causes. I do find that ti works pretty well for a pain reducer though. During my hallucinations, I am basically pain free. I have never done street drugs or any psych stuff - so these hallucinations I would describe - is that I know I am fully "IN" a hallucination and yet fight myself from talking random things or seeing random things, etc. Touch sensation on me is real high. A light touch can feel like punch - or it can scare me if I am not expecting it. Stuff is weird, makes me sleep, makes the pain go away, but makes me have these stupid side effects.

Who else is up here and can give some advice?

My advice to any rec people: don't become tolerant. Essentially my hospice plan is sedation, and death through nutrition.

 

[T. Calderone]

What sort of advice are you looking for?

 

[manboychef]

What should I take threads are not okay. This is better suited for a blog.

 

[JoeDobbin]

What should I take threads are not okay. This is better suited for a blog.

It was aimed at a discussion point for those people who have reached extreme levels of resistance. I posted straight off the warning for people to not use this as a "what to take thread". Rather, I am looking for other opiate tolerant people to share their situations and prescriptions vs effect. I am looking to see if there is a white line really drawn in the sand that after xyz consumption, it no longer becomes viable.... or there is hope and help and limits have yet to be crossed in comparison.

Hence the asking of someone "to out tolerate me".

The math of the amount of dilaudid I take is asinine and way above some rec user asking what to take. A quick count in the head shows that I am 1000x higher than average Bob on the street taking a couple of 8mg tabs of Delaudid..

There has to be someone else like me out there to connect to, so we can compare notes with, etc. Seriously. Look at the amount of shit being pumped into me on a daily basis!

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

You actually hallucinate from ketamine? You should just get a dissociated feeling at those doses. Like from alcohol. Not the GABAergic effects you feel from it. But the NMDA antagonism, which is just as strong and is responsible for half of alochol's effects.

(Alcohol is an NMDA antagonist is what I am saying) So remove the benzo effect from alcohol and just try to feel the other main effect at the other receptor, this receptor - doesn't feel similar to ketamine? (should as both are NMDA antagonists)

 

[T. Calderone]

Hi Joe. I don't think you will find many members here who can "out tolerate" you. Given the fact that you're in hospice care hence, getting the huge amounts of medications. I'm really sorry you're in this unfortunate situation. In Other Drugs, there is a pain management mega thread if you want to have a look:
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/793435-The-Pain-Management-Mega-Thread-v-7

I will move to Drug Culture since you are asking about other's experiences and tolerance.

 

[Felonious Monk]

You're on hospice... ask your doctor or NP?

Or use the internet, you're sick so you have access to theoretically anything... (based on your country, which you did not share)

There's no magic medicines which they're holding out. Except cannabis. If your state has medical cannabis laws it's probably worth considering.

I'll leave this open for a few hours but I fail to see the value, especially if it's not for Basic Drug Discussion (or Other Drugs), as that's where I would have sent this.

 

[Keif' Richards]

OP, what kind of advice are you looking for? I really would have to defer to your Doctor seeing as how you are in Hospice. I would think that your medical team could help you out a lot better than we could, but if you're looking for support, we'd be more than happy to help you out!

 

[belligerent drunk]

^ I agree that this thread doesn't have much discussion value, and I fail to think of how we could help the OP. I understand that you're probably fairly old, and are suffering from serious physical issues. If the pain medications are helping you have another bright day, without serious side-effects, then I'm happy for you. Opioids are the current standard for heavy pain relief, cannabis being a weak second. If you're unable to access cannabis, then I guess you have to live with what you have.

 

[JoeDobbin]

I apologize up front - emotions are high as I am in a lot of pain.

I am not old. I am 37, have a wife and two kids (7 and 9). I figured I would go create an anonymous post on a recreational drug user forum, whereas the intent was to to help actually educate without any prejudiced. I thought the user community here may have some base knowledge or experience that I could actually get educated on.

Honestly, I feel that because I receive medicine through an RX that I am being kicked to the curb here. It took me 45 minutes to write that little bit of information, and I am being threatened to have the thread closed based on value not measured from I - the person who initiated the attempt to get information or help? Yeah, I already said I am emotional and that got me to use another 1/2 box of tissue. It is hard to reply to your questions (Monk) when I feel totally unwelcome and perceived stupid.

Yes - I have asked my doctor and their team.

I am in a situation where the doctors don't have answers or drive suggestions. The whole reason I am on Ketamine is based on a post I created here, had an intelligent conversation with another person, who recommended it for the 'said medical reasons. It was great advice, and moved the support for my case much further that nearly 2 million in medical bills have thus far...

I am sorry - I am angry and think it is easier to just go ahead and end it.

My intent with this thread was to find other people who are essentially opiate tolerant to the point Opiates don't work for them anymore (which is where I believe I am) and to see what they do to continue to survive. I was trying to compare my high amounts of opiates to anyone else who would post their amounts to show they were in the same realm as I - and what information followed I could glean on and try to continue to survive.

Else, it takes hours for me to write a book about the various medical problems that I have, the 34 different RX medicines that I take, the background/nature of each doctor and procedure I have had and interact with - only for someone to maybe find little value in that and closing that post down as well?

Yeah, I am on hospice. I am in the drivers seat. I essentially have an unlimited RX pad and can get whatever I want as long as it actually has a medical application. Why? The doctors are tired, lazy, or have given up on me as well as everyone else in the world. Take for example:

Two days ago I was vomiting and hadn't eaten in two days. Hospice comes out to see me as their scheduled to do, and I feel near death. Full of pain, nausea, vomiting, dry, etc. They said I look bad and called the doctor. Waited an hour for him to return the call. Asked me what was wrong, told them the issues, they gave me some Ondastat that I already had been taken (sublingual). Pain had still been high, and the doctor increases the bolus for the button push pump from 40mg to 44mg. I tell them it was a waste, as I can do 40 - with a nurses clinical 40 right after, wait 8 minutes, do another 40mg and have the nurse do her clinical on top for another 40 (160mg in 10 minutes of delaudid) and it does nothing for me. Yet, raising my bolus from 40 to 44 was the answer to my problems?

I asked for fentaghin or whatever its called, so I can IV it with my port. This would prevent my nausia and knock me out. I then tell them that the ketamine has been the only drug that makes a difference in physical feeling - and they go from 150mg /3ml a night to 3ml three times a day.

See the pattern here? I tell them - they do.

Please don't take a forum post that took me hours to write, and close it down because YOU didn't see any value to it?

I dont have the magic questions but need help. I can barely move my hands and fingers to write, nor see as everything is blurry as shit. What I would like please:

- Any recommendations of any medicines that will make pain go away.
- Any recommendations for any enhancing medications to take with already prescribed medications to make the more powerful.
- Any recommendations for any drug to alter my sense of reality of a short time being, maybe allowing me to bypass time when things are really bad?

Thats all I got at this point.

 

[Whosajiggawaaa]

Oxycodone.

better than morphine ime.

I have taken up to a gram a day of it, and am now prescribed 120 mgs a day fo it but take up to 500 mgs, think i outtolerate you bud.

Also snort some H when the oxy runs out, almos medical grade H.

and am on 2 mgs loprazolam for sleep.

 

[belligerent drunk]

I'm sorry that you're going through this, but I still don't understand what kind of help you're looking for. From what you're saying, it seems that you are in need for opioids, which you are getting. There really isn't much somebody over the internet can suggest, especially if you're honest with your doctors and are getting appropriate treatment.

While I can sympathize with your situation, and it is not my call to close the thread, there are certain guidelines which are in place to ensure a certain quality of posting, and posts such as yours may be better suited for the Blogs section more.

Again, I'm sorry that you're in this situation, but if you could state the question/issue more clearly, then maybe more people would be able to help.

E: as I said in my previous post, opioids are the number one class of drugs against pain, and you're taking astronomical quantities of them. I can't imagine what could help you alleviate the pain you're suffering through, except maybe cannabis or a gabapentinoid (gabapentin/pregabalin etc).

 

[SKL]

In the strongest possible terms the following is not professional advice. Not only am I not giving you professional advice this is far beyond my depth professionally as I deal exclusively with psychiatry issues, practically nothing involving pain management other than the incidental psych patient who is on PM elsewhere prescribed. this is why I will give you no numbers as follows. I would humbly suggest:

your tolerance is indeed astronomical, so you can take pretty much about anything it seems

d/c p.o. morphine, just forget it; substitute oxycodone or probably better yet oxymorphone
consider fentanyl as better baseline opiate (i.v. since you have it; other RoAs to be considered) wit
large dose dilaudid or i.v. morphine for breakthrough pain
phenergan is possibly worthwhile as a potentiator and will help with any nausea
neuroleptics will help knock you out but you won't like them
ketamine seems to be working for you but the hallucinatory qualities seem to trouble you. as many rec users may tell you, you will develop a tolerance or an ability to function on hallucinogenic quantities of ketamine
ativan can go up, there is essentially no ceiling to any of these drugs given tolerance
lyrica/pregabalin probably won't work if your pain isn't neuropathic but why not, it's worth a shot, it will also potentiate opiates

have you tried marijuana/Marinol™/high-potency medical cannabis products? is it legal where you live? if not, it's pretty easily soured and if your hospice team is this liberal they will probably at least turn a blind eye. if ketamine is causing you significant psychological distress though marijuana is likely to do the same in therapeutic doses which I am given to understand are rather large (thus the exotic high potency products out there), but it's at least worth a try probably although I'm generally canna-skeptic.

I don't think I can provide better advice than your hospice team though, nor can most if not all Bluelighters. I'm just throwing things out there; nothing I suggest is particularly novel or out of the box.

You may get some people in their suggesting esoteric research chemicals and the like, I'd ignore them and perhaps not appreciate the posts; however, on the other hand, if you're in an "anything goes" situation, it might be worthwhile, if there is a genuine justification. there's probably not as almost all of the commercially available ones are just variations on already available themes

➤ This post is not medical or clinical advice. I make no claim to any professional credentials nor to dispense professional information online. Even if I do possess credentials personally, to which I make no claim, as I have not evaluated you in person, or performed any other clinical assessment, review of your records, overall life situation and the larger context of your illness, psychiatric and medical history, medication history, and many other factors that may impact your situation as described, nothing that I post here can or should be taken as professional advice and furthermore there is no professional relationship established or implied. Anything that I post here is my personal opinion and strictly for informational purposes only and before undertaking any treatments, interventions, or changes to your current treatment, it is essential that you contact your physician or other provider(s), including providing absolute and full disclosure of substance abuse and/or other sensitive issues.

 

[Felonious Monk]

Maybe I missed it but you still failed to say where you live. That is relevant.

Also, consider writing shorter posts. It's paradoxically easier to understand what you have to say when you keep it succinct.

I'm not trying to be unwelcoming, but just like everyone else who has posted I was unclear on exactly what you were asking.

I still recommend cannabis, just like I did 1 year ago. Opioids are not effective for neurological pain.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

Unfortunately I don't have any answers for your questions, but I do have a family member with a similar problem (but her pain issues have mostly passed fortunately).

SERIOUS WARNING:
Do not think that because you have an astronomical opioid tolerance or because you don't feel your pain medications that you are immune to an overdose. Even if you dont feel your pain meds working. Said family member of mine overdosed in a hospital of all places as doctors continuously administered pain meds trying to get her pain under control. She had no history of recreational drug use of any sort--she simply didn't respond to opioid pain medications. However, the CNS depression still occured.

I didn't mean to be harsh or anything, but it's an important consideration. I hope you find something that works for you. Thats an extremely difficult situation to be in.

 

[SKL]

SERIOUS WARNING:
Do not think that because you have an astronomical opioid tolerance or because you don't feel your pain medications that you are immune to an overdose. Even if you dont feel your pain meds working. Said family member of mine overdosed in a hospital of all places as doctors continuously administered pain meds trying to get her pain under control. She had no history of recreational drug use of any sort--she simply didn't respond to opioid pain medications. However, the CNS depression still occured.

This is, of course, true, especially when switching drugs (despite supposed "equivalency tables"), adding adjunctives, and also surprising things like changing context (the famous study where addicts are more likely to OD when in unfamiliar settings) i.e. for your relative, from home to hospital, and various other factors, even things like diet or apparently innocuous other medications/supplements/whatever.

 

[Phil.McKeer]

Hi OP, I'm sorry to hear you're in the state you're currently in, but at least you are receiving adequate medical care. A couple points:

1. The mods are not trying to be antagonistic towards you, there are certain rules that they have to abide by. I've found that they are all very friendly and fair, and that we can, with a little bit of care, increase our post quality and abide by the rules without compromising the information content and what we get back from the interaction in the thread.

2. The only thing that comes to mind is adding cannabis to your treatment regime. You might not want to smoke it (it really is a terrible ROA). Eating THC containing edibles is probably going to be the best route for you, since it does not require you to combust and inhale burnt plant material and lasts longer and hits harder. Cannabis will also potentiate your opioids (although I'm not sure if "potentiate" is the correct term for this).

3. You can also use some other substances to potentiate the opioids you're currently taking, including diphenhydramine and DXM, among others. IME diphenhydramine is the best potentiator of opioids after cannabis (but again, I'm not sure if potentiate is the correct term for what cannabis does to increase the effects of opioids, but you get my point).

4. I also second what another BL'er mentioned about discontinuing the morphine and replacing it with oxymorphone.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Oxycodone.

better than morphine ime.

I have taken up to a gram a day of it, and am now prescribed 120 mgs a day fo it but take up to 500 mgs, think i outtolerate you bud.

Also snort some H when the oxy runs out, almos medical grade H.

and am on 2 mgs loprazolam for sleep.

You can "out tolerate" someone who's a pain management patient in a hospice setting?

It may be time to start pumping the brakes a little, broseph

 

[SKL]

… diphenhydramine and DXM …

Hydroxyzine is a better option than diphenhydramine; dextromethorphan is questionable, though, IMO. In small doses, I doubt it will do all that much; in larger doses, the untoward effects will predominate and OP is already taking ketamine.

Also, yeah, jigsy, cool your jets tbh.

 

[Phil.McKeer]

Hydroxyzine is a better option than diphenhydramine; dextromethorphan is questionable, though, IMO. In small doses, I doubt it will do all that much; in larger doses, the untoward effects will predominate and OP is already taking ketamine.

Also, yeah, jigsy, cool your jets tbh.

Right, I should have mentioned I have absolutely no experience using DXM to potentiate opioids, just going off what I've read others report. I've only used DXM in recreational dosages for its own effects.

I've also never used hydroxyzine; I'll look into that for my own purposes, thanks SKL.