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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

NSW to slap temporary ban on synthetic drugs after Kwan death

Nothing so far has been limited to me. I've been working since I was 16 and never stopped and I'm currently 27. You seem to think addicts would be high as a kite at work or something but its not the case 99% of the time, most people wait till after work to have their greater 'dose' for relaxation. Not 1 person I work with knows I'm an addict and I've been drug tested and had no problems. There are addicts all around you, you just don't know it. Your co workers, neighbors, teachers, lawyers and Doctors why should they be treated any less because of warp society views on drug addiction and drug addicts.
 
You will create a underclass of families that are trapped in the cycle if you make it acceptable to be an addict.
Legalization/decriminalization doesn't imply it's acceptable to be an addict. We're don't accept alcoholics being drunk at work or driving etc even though alcohol is legal. I'm not convinced that many more addicts would be created by making opiates more attainable. I think the majority of people who try opiates do weather its legal or not. I will admit though that it's easier for them to quit by deleting all there contacts from their phone or moving, something that won't be possible with legalization.

One doesn't have to be trapped in the cycle if its given to them, look how methadone/suboxone works for some people, no longer do they have to worry about it so they return to normal living etc etc same thing would happen if given their opiate DOC instead. YES some would abuse it but the majority shouldn't be punished for the minority.

Depends, whilst it may be minority against majority, if the difference is kids safety and people getting high because they're addicted, then reguardless if it's minority vs majority it's more important to do the right thing by the minority. Although I'm not convinced that many addicts would let it affect the life of their friends and family if they could easily obtain their DOC.

A coroner isn't able to prove shit. Say there were multiple drugs in the system instead of a gunshot wound to the head. How can he possible say it was suicide. Accidental overdose, especially to well-liked public figures/celebrities.
It's their job to determine it, sometimes they would be wrong but I bet they would be right most of the time. Accidental OD would be a reasonable high dose of use but people who choose to commit suicide are more likely to have obviously lethal doses.
 
No second chances with synthetic drug ban

The member for Northern Tablelands, Adam Marshall, says any retailers who've still got synthetic drugs on their shelves won't get a second chance if caught.

The federal government banned 19 synthetic drugs earlier this month after they were linked to the death of a Sydney teenager.

Fines of more than $1-million apply to any retailer caught selling the banned group of chemicals, which include highly-addictive substitutes for marijuana and cocaine.

Adam Marshall says he wants the local community to contact the Department of Fair Trading if they suspect the drugs are still being sold in the region.

He says the warnings are clear.

"That original grace period with the interim ban has now ceased so any organisation, or anyone, who is now selling those synthetic drugs is liable to be fined," he said.

"They face up to $220,000 for an individual or for corporations up to $1.1-million for breaching the ban."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-25/no-second-chances-with-synthetic-drug-ban/4778916
 
I think they're doing a segment on synthetic drugs on the project tonight. I saw it advertised but might be later in the week, from the adds it looked like it's gonna be the typical view that we need to restrict them more, but might be worth watching. If you miss it I'll link to it later
 
If they already have an addiction then what is the problem, we give out Methadone/suboxone to keep them stable and functioning but still dependent. Instead they would get their 2 shots of heroin per day and get on with life. There will always be people who are a burden on society whether drugs are in the picture or not but this could help a lot of people get some stability in their lives so they can return to a somewhat normal routine.

The studies in Switzerland, Canada and a few other European countries have proven giving Heroin to Heroin addicts is FAR more effective than methadone/suboxone in terms of cost and quality of life.

1: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0810635

2.: http://www.psmag.com/science/vancouvers-free-heroin-injection-clinic-58029/


Im confused are you advocating the legalisation of heroin, or the controlled use of it to treat heroin addiction?? with the aim of getting them off opiates altogether.

Yes we give addicts methadone and suboxone, but with the aim of slowly weening them off heroin then gradually opiates all together.
 
Nothing so far has been limited to me. I've been working since I was 16 and never stopped and I'm currently 27. You seem to think addicts would be high as a kite at work or something but its not the case 99% of the time, most people wait till after work to have their greater 'dose' for relaxation. Not 1 person I work with knows I'm an addict and I've been drug tested and had no problems. There are addicts all around you, you just don't know it. Your co workers, neighbors, teachers, lawyers and Doctors why should they be treated any less because of warp society views on drug addiction and drug addicts.


You think being an addict 99% of the time will be a positive thing that most people can manage!?!? You have to joking.

You saying you're an addict shows you are unable to control use, which makes it harder for people like me who are able to use their drug responsibly.
 
Busty, the only reason you think "Addiction is a yoke around ones neck" is because of the current irrational, immoral and unjust laws based on lies, stigma and propaganda. Caffeine addicts, nicotine addicts, alcoholics, sex addicts, gambling addicts whatever are all able to do things that opiod addicts can't, considering that alcohol and nicotine in particular are much worse for the person's physical health, this makes absolutely no sense to me.

This is where my personal philosophy differs from the majority of people and I completely understand why. You're certainly entitled to think that I'm a slave to my addiction, but without my drug of choice, my life would either not exist at all, or I would be a depressed sack of shit contributing nothing to society at all. At present with my medication, I am working full time, providing a service that people (well, businesses) require, and I do a damn good job of it if I am allowed to say so myself. I don't, however, when I am sick.

I strongly believe the world is fucked up when some deadly addictions are accepted, in some cases encouraged by our society, when someone who is dependent on a much less harmful substance is treated like a leech on society simply because the law says it is illegal.

It's their job to determine it, sometimes they would be wrong but I bet they would be right most of the time. Accidental OD would be a reasonable high dose of use but people who choose to commit suicide are more likely to have obviously lethal doses.
Lack of education can make an accidental overdose easy. Education can also make an overdose look accidental.
 
Im confused are you advocating the legalisation of heroin, or the controlled use of it to treat heroin addiction?? with the aim of getting them off opiates altogether.

Yes we give addicts methadone and suboxone, but with the aim of slowly weening them off heroin then gradually opiates all together.

That's not necessarily true, I've spoken to several doctors regarding this. All of them obviously have different opinions, but I have spoken to two who believe that ORT are a long-term, sometimes life-long deal.

Especially in certain cases where people suffer from legitimate pain as well, (not just physical either, which is a whole 'nother can of worms), since they are in the system as being "addicts", all they have left is ORT. Maybe we should add all those legal drugs to this bullshit view doctors have. "Do you drink coffee every day?" - "Yes, of course!" - "Sorry, you're an addict. I can't prescribe you diazepam for your debilitating GAD, nor any morphine-based pain killer for your several ruptured discs, broken arm and recently amputated leg. Phantom pain? It's all in your head. Probably because you're a caffeine addict. Look, you are a proven addict. Stick with paracetamol, you'll be fine." - "But I haven't had a coffee or a cigarette in 10 years!?" - "Sorry sir, I really feel for you, but I see on your file that you have been addicted to coffee AND nicotine before. Wow, I didn't know about nicotine. Sorry, you'll have to just meditate, I can't prescribe you Panadol Osteo, I think you may abuse it." - "Seriously, you do realise that Panadol Osteo is just a higher dose of Paracetamol, right? I can just take an extra OTC tablet and get the same effect?" - "GET OT OF MY OFFICE. I SPENT X YEARS IN BLAAH. I KNOW BETTER THAN YOU AND YOUR BODY AND YOUR MENTAL HEALTH. YOU'RE SIMPLY A DRUG SEEKER, GET OUT!"
 
^
If you're right in saying that some doctors believe that being free from opiate addiction altogether is not an option and addicts will need treatment for the rest of their life, do you not see how that is a good argument for why we cannot allow people to become addicted to drugs in the first place?

For goodness sake, do you honestly think that a doctor when deciding your dose and specific painkiller should have to be responsible for the fact you have an opiate tolerance due to you abusing them?
 
Nobody is encouraging people to become addicted, and I do not want that to happen. However, some people, for many reasons DO become addicts. Whether that's because of chronic pain, emotional distress or a million other reasons, it does happen. You can't just pretend that it doesn't because you want to take the moral high ground and say that all addicts are scum because they ended up addicted to a fucking medicine that works for them.

For goodness sake, do you honestly think that a doctor when deciding your dose and specific painkiller should have to be responsible for the fact you have an opiate tolerance due to you abusing them?
Yes
 
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You think being an addict 99% of the time will be a positive thing that most people can manage!?!? You have to joking.

You saying you're an addict shows you are unable to control use, which makes it harder for people like me who are able to use their drug responsibly.

Most people are managing it some form or another right now every single day you just don't see it because it doesn't negatively affect their lives. I use the same amount I did 7 years ago and never used more.
 
I'm in the same boat is Opi8 as I used for emotional reason and if I didn't I would of committed suicide many years ago instead of having the productive life I have now. Conventional treatments did not work for me until I found my own way which isn't supported by 'mainstream' therefore I get looked down upon.
 
http://youtu.be/ltnK57DIces

Published on Jun 24, 2013
During this afternoons Senate Questions Senator Di Natale asked the OurSay Peoples Question voted on by the Australian public.

Worth a watch, the part at the end especially gets me fired up when he says the stuff about cannabis, and many of the other politicians are saying 'here here' when he says they wont allow medical or legalised cannabis at all. Fuckwits.

It also briefly discusses other drugs.

http://youtu.be/ltnK57DIces
 
Nobody is encouraging people to become addicted, and I do not want that to happen. However, some people, for many reasons DO become addicts. Whether that's because of chronic pain, emotional distress or a million other reasons, it does happen. You can't just pretend that it doesn't because you want to take the moral high ground and say that all addicts are scum because they ended up addicted to a fucking medicine that works for them.


Yes


So how would that kind of system be implemented? "oh doc, I take heaps of oxy so im going to need something much stronger". What do you propose doctors do? thers no easy way of testing peoples tolerance, should doctors just assume people will be honest?
 
There's no point speculating how it could be done at the moment because it isn't going to happen.

But there are solutions to every problem if you actually think about it.

I suppose a methadone like model would work - I told them I was shooting a few grams a day, they didn't "just take my word" put me straight onto 100mg's of methadone, I was slowly titrated up, and it was fucking painful. But that's just one potential way.
 
A few Aussies were caught up in this apparently, the Nazi's erm sorry I mean USA government really can reach international if they want, its amazing what the Gestapo, oops sorry i mean DEA can do. Anyway fuck Hitler, sorry I mean Obama

US makes major bust of global synthetic drug ring.
WASHINGTON (AFP) - US officials announced the largest-ever bust of a global synthetic drugs ring Wednesday, seizing thousands of pounds of illicit drugs and arresting 225 people in five countries and 35 US states.

Authorities seized up to 3,300 pounds (1,500 kilograms) of "dangerous designer synthetic drugs" that were manufactured in Asia and trafficked to the United States and Australia, where dealers sold them to youths and young adults, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) said.

In what is rapidly emerging as one of the greatest of drug interdiction challenges, hundreds of kinds of synthetic drugs are being made in what DEA described as unregulated labs overseas, notably in China and India.

The DEA said Project Synergy began last December but culminated Wednesday when most of the arrests were made.

Nearly $15 million in cash and assets were seized in the operation, which saw arrests or search warrants executed in 35 US states, 49 cities and the countries of Australia, Barbados, Canada and Panama.

Millions of dollars in drug sale profits were being funneled to the Middle East, potentially into existing terror networks that are known to fund their illicit operations through drug trafficking, officials said.

The designer drugs, which mimic controlled substances, are among a growing group of illicit compounds that traffickers have marketed in recent years, often attempting to skirt laws by barely modifying the chemical makeup of products like incense, bath salts or jewelry cleaner.

The drugs -- synthetic cannabinoids that can provide a marijuana-like high, or synthetic cathinones that are stimulant hallucinogens -- are marketed under brand names like "Spice," "K2" or "Bliss" and sold in colorful, youth-oriented packaging, often with comic book characters on the cover.

US officials say abuse of the drugs can lead to seizures, hallucinations, high blood pressure and organ damage.

Several overdoses, mainly of people age 12 to 29, have led to emergency room visits and even deaths, the DEA said.

"The bottom line is that these drugs are being marketed to the most vulnerable part of our society, which is teenagers and young adults," DEA chief of operations James Capra told reporters.

He said profits were being funneled to the Middle East, and while he would not be drawn on exactly which groups were benefiting, citing the ongoing investigation, Capra hinted that terror networks were involved.

"You have this convergence out there, more so today than ever before, of terror groups funding their operations through the sale of narcotics around the globe," he said.

The traffickers have convinced distributors including some gas stations and convenience stores that their drugs are legal, when in fact they are sometimes dangerous alterations of allowed products.

"It's marketed 'not for human consumption,' but it's killing kids," warned Derek Maltz, who heads the Justice Department's Special Operations Division.

Officials highlighted the multinational nature of the operation, including agents in Australia, where synthetic drugs are marketed.

The seizure "is a terrific result for law enforcement agencies across the globe," said Australia's Acting Ambassador to the US Graham Fletcher.

Many similar products have been legal for years. But traffickers began tweaking the chemical components to increase their psychotic effects.

The nearly inexhaustible chemical combinations available to the drugs' creators make it a struggle for authorities to keep up.

"It's much more than a two-dimensional bath salts and Spice problem," Special Agent Robert Bell, of DEA's Office of Diversion Control, told AFP.
"There have been more than 200 brand new drugs introduced into the United States since 2009 from several structural classes."

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/17765575/us-makes-largest-ever-bust-of-global-synthetic-drug-ring/
 
^
4784288-3x2-940x627.jpg
 
Nearly looks like a board of rave flyers. It's actually some DEA dicks holding up synthetic drug brands yesterday.
 
There's no point speculating how it could be done at the moment because it isn't going to happen.

But there are solutions to every problem if you actually think about it.

I suppose a methadone like model would work - I told them I was shooting a few grams a day, they didn't "just take my word" put me straight onto 100mg's of methadone, I was slowly titrated up, and it was fucking painful. But that's just one potential way.


Oh ok sorry , I thought you were talking about an honesty based system. Yeah I agree the methadone program is not ideal and has many flaws, but it does work for some.

What annoys me is how some people think the "system" is only out to stop them having fun, and ignore the reality that when people have easy assess to opiates many cant control themselves and end up addicted. This is something thats not good for the individual or society.
 
ive got a nice little stash that would keep me quite high for months to come, strange thing is I choose not to because its there. chasing the high is half the addiction. Education and self respect removes the need to rebel and be stupid. theres always going to be the fools who over indulge but thats life, legalisation I believe will remove the stigma of atraction because its illegal
 
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