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NMDA antagonists for tolerance, a collection of the evidence and anecdotal reports

avcpl said:
Sorry, I do realize that; I'm just looking for a place to start.

So if I where to follow a schedule for amp tolerance, what would that entail?
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For amphetamine its recommened to titrate up to 40mg of memantine and taking a small break of amp untill the memantine adaptation phase is over.
 
MeDieViL said:
For amphetamine its recommened to titrate up to 40mg of memantine and taking a small break of amp untill the memantine adaptation phase is over.
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I would imagine the memantine adaptation phase will be different for everyone, but may I ask how long yours was so that I have a point of reference? (and you too MagickalKat?).

I'm particularly intrigued because part of the diminished effects of mdma for me have been lack of an amp feeling and lack of pupil dilation; it will be interesting to see if memantine restores those aspects...
 
It inhibits amphetamine for pretty much a full week in my case, after witch the adaptation phase is over and tolerance prevention/potentation takes place.
 
MeDieViL said:
It inhibits amphetamine for pretty much a full week in my case, after witch the adaptation phase is over and tolerance prevention/potentation takes place.
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A week at 40mg/day? or a week total (starting and building up to the 40mg)?

Sorry to be such a pain in the ass! But, I do appreciate your responses! :)
 
lol, thanks. I'm just trying to calculate how much I need to have on hand for the trial. A week at 40mg for me and my wife would be 56 (10mg) pills minimum (plus what it takes for us to build up to that dose). Kind of sensitive to the brain-fog feeling myself, so it may take a while at small increments.

Again, thanks so much!
 
As long you keep us updated mate!

Damn, i ran out of memantine a while ago, i am sleep deprived and using amphetamine day 2 amp barely works anymore, i remember that of the old days but this really shows how good memantine was working for me, my amp allways stayed working as strong.
 
Med-

Would taking DXM a few hours prior to MDMA ingestion potentiate the experience? 45-60 MG Dose of DXM Extended prior to the MDMA (Delsym). Let me know what you think

Cheers
 
Tomer said:
Med-

Would taking DXM a few hours prior to MDMA ingestion potentiate the experience? 45-60 MG Dose of DXM Extended prior to the MDMA (Delsym). Let me know what you think

Cheers
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Yes, and not a little bit! A pretty deadly roll it can become;).


Dont take DXM with MDMA mate, order memantine.
 
I would also like to request that those that arent getting as impressive results to report their experience too, to get a good idea on the effectiveness of NMDA antagonists, i know that with this kind of thing some members may not feel like reporting their experience if it didnt work.
 
More ppl need to try this! Comeone guys, imagin using all your drugs with barely a tolerance, give this shit a try!

I'm gonna make a small thread about this in the MDMA section, many have lost the magic and i bet a few members would try it, we really need more reports on MDMA!
 
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More reports, those where posted on bluelight

This drug DXM stands for dextromorphan or something. I need you to research its effects on the brain and the nervous system. This is insane.

Let me try to explain a little bit. It's known as robotussin and its used for coughs and its a dissociative which means it fucks with the central nervous system, but I tried taking 3 times the normal dose in some sort of attempt to reverse my opiate tolerance as ive been going into withdrawal and this is what happened:

Last night it worked and i got high off a dose of oxycodone i havent been able to feel even since last year.

But this is even more INSANE like seriously Alicia I want to jump and shout. It's unlocked memories and removed what I can only describe as a brain fog and has unlocked my personality and I feel like a NORMAL HUMAN BEING I feel like MYSELF for the first time in a long time since I started using opiates.

My theory is that it deactivates the glial cells in the CNS that are responsible for producing whats called 'tolerance' to opiates and the endogenous opiods produced by the brain. In other words, the 'brain damage' (aka tolerance) i've incurred with long term opiate use has been temporarily removed by this otc dissociative drug, DXM. I can FEEL my brains natural pleasure chemicals again and it feels so great. But the thing is NO ONE UNDERSTOOD. After long term opiate abuse at school I was suffering from constant depression and my parents put me in rehab counseling/psychologist/psychiatrist. the psychiatrist gave me SSRI's and they did jack shit but THIS WORKS.
I was depressed and fiending for opiates because I was so overly tolerant to the family of neurotransmitters known as opioids. Apparently these chemicals are as much involved with long term memory and basically EVERYTHING as they are with pleasure.
I cannot believe this, but at the same time, the body builds its own tolerance to DXM, so it's not like I can feel like myself unless I start abusing DXM to reverse opiate tolerance which obviously won't work after a long period of time.

I feel excitement and all kinds of other emotions I haven't known for a year at least. It's insane, it's like I just woke up out of a coma.
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Good to hear you feel better I would not do opies anymore if i had your chance. they have ruined enough shit for 6 lifetimes.....
I dont believe glial cells/neurons can be "deactivated". Activated brain areas create neurons to form networks to tighten response, but die off if not used. Short term memory is the best example.
Possibly antagonism, but I would look into the memory centers of the brain.

Go borrow a fMRI machine from a hospital. jk

I was hoping someone could shed a little light on how it has managed to temporarily cure my opiate tolerance and everything that came with it. Part of formthis message is copied from something I sent to an ex girlfriend whos attending Harvard in the hopes that she could do some published research on the topic and spread the word.

The reason I'm posting it here is because in the past 2 or 3 years of opiate addiction bluelight has given me an amazing resource for harm reduction and drug information and I want to share this with opiate addicts seeking help on this forum.

By the way, before I paste the edited version of what I sent her, I am currently experiencing no withdrawal symptoms thanks to DXM and I was sick as a dog yesterday with no oxycodone left to save my ass. (Took about 4.5 hours after taking my 55mg dose of DXM for withdrawal to cease entirely)
Here's my account of DXM and its effects on reversing opiate tolerance that I sent to my ex:



Thanks Bluelight. if a mod wants this to be in journals or trip reports I'd ask them to please wait to move it until some users with advanced knowledge of chemistry have read my anecdotal account and possibly verified it with accurate info, thanks!!!
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[/QUOTE]
Negative report:
I'd hate to break it to you (even though it seems it's already been broken) but Dextromethorphan (or any NMDA antagonists for that matter) will play about as big of a role in alleviating opiate/oid withdrawal symptoms as Diphenhydramine, Naproxen and Loperamide do. On a relief factor, it *may* lie somewhere between the OTC remedies and Benzodiazepines/Barbituates.

Someone with a very mild Codeine addiction would probably benefit from a combination of DXM with the other remedies listed, but a Heroin addict that injects 2+ grams a day for years will not think of it as a 'miracle drug' at all.

Back when I was that Heroin addict I just spoke of, I tried DXM, Ketamine, PCP, all the OTC methods, Benzos, Barbituates, Clonidine, etc; trying to find the *right* combination for making withdrawal at least somewhat tolerable. Even throwing a Methadone taper into the mix didn't work. The only thing that got me off of Heroin was making my first visit to my PCP (not to be confused with Phencyclidine) in order to get on Suboxone maintenance. When he saw that I was in severe withdrawals 6 hours after injecting 7 'Philly' bags, he put me on 32mg of Suboxone instantly. I went through a pretty nasty withdrawal for about 48 hours, but got back to baseline at around 72 hours. That was 13 months ago and now I am down to 8mg once per day with zero relapses. The only time(s) I've ever felt a craving were after I'd get done with an intense workout and I'd see a vein that originally had collapsed suddenly re-appear, sort of announcing to the monkey in me, "Hey, I'm back! Whatcha got for me?"... anyways, I'll leave it at that.

Sorry for the long post. I just don't want anybody to see this thread title and get their hopes up without diving deep into the data and personal experiences and go lock themselves in a room with a couple of bottles of cough syrup thinking they'll be "cured" by a "miracle drug".

By the way, hello everyone. I recognize a few names and posting styles from the old BL, the bee's nest, PhreeX's old board, etc. My account got canned back when BL had the "re-boot" or whatever around 2005(?), so unfortunately I can't access it/it doesn't exist anymore, and I've just been lurking for years.

Peace!
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Well I am down 50% on my valium now but its not comfortable - I may have to go back up or increase the memantine or add Delsym or something.

I get the distinct impression that DXM is more effective for benzos than memantine is but at the same time, I was taking 60mg of Delsym twice a day versus taking 20mg of memantine twice a day so maybe I just need to go up in the mem dose.

Personally, I think Delsym was working quite well with the valium withdrawal though - my tolerance to it was going down when I was on the Delsym and it started on the second or third day... I switched to memantine due to concerns about drug interactions with DXM but I may switch back because memantine has suppressed my breathing when I take too much (up to 60mg a day) and doesn't appear to be working as well as DXM does. Plus I quit taking drugs altogether in order to do my taper as quickly as possible and get back to work.

Can anyone comment on how well DXM works versus memantine for benzo withdrawal? I would imagine that it is superior - I remember that my valium tolerance dropped on its own when I was doing the Delsym whereas the memantine seems to just reduce the withdrawal symptoms (ie., no brain fog, no memory problems, still functional, no panic attacks, but still psychological symptoms like feeling that your heart is going to give out, weird body feelings, but nothing physical to back it up other than random pains).

It seems to be somewhat commonly reported that for whatever reason, DXM users can keep using the drug they are tolerant to and still experience a tolerance reduction but this does not seem to be the case with memantine.

I guess I may have to just suck it up and switch to the syrup and just make sure to avoid serotonergic drugs, although I wonder how much damage a roll would do with therapeutic levels of Delsym - I won't be trying it though.
 
I wonder wheter ketamine "shock" therapy would work, like in the same way as it works for depression.
 
I have a gram of ketamine I could experiment with but ketamine lasts such a short amount of time that's its kind of pointless.
 
NMDA antagonists work for tolerance by inducing receptor upregulation, the effects of ketamine last a few weeks for depression, while this has been associated with rapid synaptogenesis this doesnt explain everything as the antidepressants effects disappear rapidly again, perhaps receptor upregulation of differend neurotransmitter systems plays a major role too, in that case a singly high dose of ketamine should reverse tolerance quite a bit to several substancs, after wich you should be able to maintain this with memantine or DXM, however i'm just speculating on this, would be interesting to see how it would work.
 
I highly recommend a heartrate monitor when combining memantine with depressants for the following study i just came across.
Does memantine induce bradycardia? A study in the French PharmacoVigilance Database.
Gallini A, Sommet A, Montastruc JL; and the French PharmacoVigilance Network.

Service de Pharmacologie Clinique, Centre Midi-Pyrénées de Pharmacovigilance, de Pharmacoépidémiologie et d'Informations sur le Médicament, Centre Hospitalier Universitaire, Hôpitaux de Toulouse, Toulouse, France. [email protected]
Abstract
OBJECTIVE: To review the cardiovascular adverse drug reactions (ADRs) with memantine reported to the French PharmacoVigilance Database.

METHODS: We reviewed all the observations of cardiovascular ADRs with memantine reported to the French PharmacoVigilance Database up to May 2007. We recorded the characteristics of patients (age, sex and underlying disease) and of ADRs (nature, seriousness, delay in occurrence, evolution, imputability).

RESULTS: After exclusion of 16 cases, the cardiac origin of which was not clearly assessed, 36 cardiac ADRs with memantine were recorded between its commercialisation in France (July 2003) and May 2007. These ADRs consisted of 18 reports of bradycardia and 18 reports of various cardiovascular ADRs (orthostatic hypotension with fall[6] electrocardiogram perturbations[4] fainting[2] malaise with arterial hypotension[2] arterial hypotension and acute renal failure[1] fatal heart failure[1] sudden death[2]). Among the 18 reports of bradycardia, 7 cases occurred with memantine as the sole suspected drug and all but one resolved after memantine's discontinuation.

CONCLUSION: Cardiovascular properties of memantine seem to be complex and remain quite unclear. Despite its drawbacks and its descriptive design, our study suggests that memantine could determine some cardiac ADRs, especially bradycardia; the mechanism of which remains unexplained.
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MeDieViL said:
I would also like to request that those that arent getting as impressive results to report their experience too, to get a good idea on the effectiveness of NMDA antagonists, i know that with this kind of thing some members may not feel like reporting their experience if it didnt work.
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of those attempting DXM, ~5-10% will not get the NMDA antagonist effect. DXM's affinity for the PCP site measures at Ki = 7253 nM, so people who cannot adequately convert it to DXO will see little benefit.
 
After my pulse skyrocketed to 180 BPM the other night from 150mg of known clean MDMA (moon rocks) and 235mg of known-clean mescaline HCl, I have decided that I am going to switch to DXM. I was going to take myself to the hospital but instead I drank a bunch of whiskey and passed out shortly after. A rise in pulse and BP was noted with a previous roll on memantine, before the withdrawal process had started, so it wasn't just withdrawal.

I either need to stay completely sober when I am on memantine - taper or not - or I need to get off the memantine and get on something that is safer as long as it isn't combined with serotonin releasing agents. Mushrooms, for example, should be perfectly safe on DXM, as should most other tryptamines (except maybe aMT) and phenethylamines (minus 2C-T-7 and the aforementioned serotonin releasing agents).
 
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