Nitrous as antidepressant, anybody tried?

[Renald]

There are several articles about quick antidepressant action of nitrous in depressive patients, not so much as about ketamine or other NMDA antagonists, but I became interested in it. I have tried inhaling pure nitrous oxide, about 30-50 liters a session, which lasts for about a hour for me. I try not to go into a deep dissociation, only to maintain some kind of dizzy feeling like from a bottle of beer or a little more. I sip 100-200 ml of nitrous during one long extremely slow inhalation and then immediately take a deep breath, after what I take several more deep breaths,and try not to deprive myself of oxygen by monitoring my SpO2,sometimes it fells into sub 90 percent values for several seconds,and quickly returns to 95+. I cant say I feel such a pronounced effect as from a low ketamine/MXE dosage, and even DXM looks a little more effective, but nitrous seems to work. I am planning to buy either oxygen tank or oxygen concentrator to premix both substances and deliver higher nitrous concentration without the fear of hypoxia.
Anybody noticed some kind of antidepressant effect or ketamine-like afterglow from nitrous usage?

 

[ScroogeMcDuck57]

That's sounds terrible to me lol. I can't imagine a chronic condition such as depression could be effectively medicated with something so fleeting as NO2.

I'd highly recommend welbutrin. I had such severe depression it debilitated me for many many years. All that changed when I started taking welbutrin. It doesn't shut down your sex drive like SSRIs do. I can't recommend it enough. It saved my life or at the very least made it enjoyable.

 

[Solipsis]

How does one truly separate euphoria (well-established / expected effect of nitrous) from an anti-depressant effect? Your mood elevates..

But it's so transient....

Funny you register nitrous in liters, who does that are you a dentist?
Looks like at standard temp and pressure there is 4 liters of nitrous in a typical cartridge in case anyone's wondering about the friggin drug (volu)metric system ; p

 

[ScroogeMcDuck57]

^well put. Depression is a pervasive thought pattern that needs more constant temperance than what recreational drugs offer IMO

 

[Doldrugs]

This is the one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. Nitrous has a tiny duration, would be unsustainably expensive to do every day, and would start making you feel like shit pretty quickly. This is safer but similar to suggesting crack as an antidepressant.

 

[DeadElvis666]

This is the one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. Nitrous has a tiny duration, would be unsustainably expensive to do every day, and would start making you feel like shit pretty quickly. This is safer but similar to suggesting crack as an antidepressant.

Exactly. I was addicted to nitrous for several years. It was comparable to a crack addiction. It was really intense. I was lucky to survive. I wouldn't suggest using it as a type of antidepressant. In fact in seems to trigger some disassociated/schizophrenic symptoms when used heavily. It's a powerful substance which I believe can be used to open all different types of doorways into our own consciousness (or perhaps even a higher consciousness?) but it is certainly not a good drug for treating mental illness. Nirous seems to cause severe "mental illness" on it's own, so using it to treat depression sounds like a horrible idea.

 

[Doldrugs]

I've seen several people take a hit of nitrous and come back from it in incredible distress. It's fun in infrequent, small amounts and it's quite safe physically, but it's the last thing I'd recommend to someone trying to treat any kind of mental illness. Some people do not react to it well, and long term use is not going to make you feel good.

 

[Ismene]

^well put. Depression is a pervasive thought pattern that needs more constant temperance than what recreational drugs offer IMO

Depends on the drug and how often you can enjoyably use it. I found psilocybin changed my brain chemistry to the extent that I can't feel the kind of depression I used to get before I took it. But that took time and regular use - weekly/fortnightly for a year or two.

I think nitrous would be worth experimenting with but it depends how much you need to get a positive effect. If you're inhaling nitrous for a couple of hours every night just to get a slight anti-depressant effect it's not worth it.

 

[Solipsis]

Don't want to fill in too much for other people, but I get the feeling that if anything was meant by this thread in terms of using nitrous as anti-depressant, it would be using the hypothetical afterglow (mentioned in OP) to gain chronic beneficial effects, not really chronic use to continuously treat depression which is definitely not recommended anyway.

If I'm right about the feeling ^ then I would say that first of all nitrous is relatively poorly understood, and also that I do not believe it shares similar actions as ketamine on glutamate or neuroplasticity, so even if it is euphoric (which as I mentioned shouldn't be confused with anti-depressant potential), I do not know of any evidence that it has any similar potential to ketamine this way whatsoever.

There seem to be a few 'classes' of dissociatives, I don't think salvia is in the same league as nitrous and not in the same league either as the bulk of what we know as the bulk of heavy dissos: DXM, the arylcyclohexylamines like ketamine PCP MXE, and the xphenidines. Even something like ether or completely other inhalant gases can be considered dissociatives, but it's not all necessarily all the same thing.
The term rather seems to refer to all drugs with dissociative effect, but apparently broadly such an effect may be reached in several ways - kappa opioid receptor or NMDA for example.
That salvia is called an atypical dissociative also reflects what is traditionally seen or known as a dissociative drug, plus its easier since the far majority are the NMDA antagonists.
And psychedelics can also be quite dissociative.

Cannabis and cannabinoids aren't like that for example, sure they can be completely different chemicals but at the end of the day it's all about what they do at the receptors CB1, CB2, the anandamide system...

So my point is: some drug classes are more lumped up because of how they make us feel, but can be significantly different, and other drug classes keep it more in a family.

Which is not to say that perhaps this all changes in the future when still other drugs and delivery systems are discovered..

 

[Renald]

How does one truly separate euphoria (well-established / expected effect of nitrous) from an anti-depressant effect? Your mood elevates..

But it's so transient....

Funny you register nitrous in liters, who does that are you a dentist?
Looks like at standard temp and pressure there is 4 liters of nitrous in a typical cartridge in case anyone's wondering about the friggin drug (volu)metric system ; p

Yes, I am a dentist I have big high pressure nitrous tank at home and large balloons, fully filled they are approx. 30-40 liters of volume.

 

[dxm231]

I would recommend looking at clinical trials of Ketamine to treat depression rather than trying nitrous to get lasting relief from depression. In Minnesota there are current clinical trials and doctors with treatment programs using Ketamine. As someone who has dealt with major depression and a variety of medications I would be cautious with SSRI, SNRI, and the like because they aren't effective and in my experience with them I have had worse symptoms and side effects. Not to say this will happen to you but make sure if you do try psychiatric medications that is managed by a doctor/psychiatrist that can monitor how you react to them. I can't speak yet on how effective Ketamine is on depression in a medical setting but I have read that there is more success than the older depression medications. Here is an article about it: http://nautil.us/issue/31/stress/a-vaccine-for-depression
If you do try nitrous to treat your depression please report back on the long term effects. I would advise against dxm to treat depression because of the risk of psychotic breaks over time (depending on dose, frequency)

 

[ScroogeMcDuck57]

Yes, I am a dentist I have big high pressure nitrous tank at home and large balloons, fully filled they are approx. 30-40 liters of volume.

That seems unethical to me. As a medical professional I would think your self medicating would be ill advised. I could be totally wrong, but that's how it strikes me.

 

[Renald]

Don't want to fill in too much for other people, but I get the feeling that if anything was meant by this thread in terms of using nitrous as anti-depressant, it would be using the hypothetical afterglow (mentioned in OP) to gain chronic beneficial effects, not really chronic use to continuously treat depression which is definitely not recommended anyway.

If I'm right about the feeling ^ then I would say that first of all nitrous is relatively poorly understood, and also that I do not believe it shares similar actions as ketamine on glutamate or neuroplasticity, so even if it is euphoric (which as I mentioned shouldn't be confused with anti-depressant potential), I do not know of any evidence that it has any similar potential to ketamine this way whatsoever.

There seem to be a few 'classes' of dissociatives, I don't think salvia is in the same league as nitrous and not in the same league either as the bulk of what we know as the bulk of heavy dissos: DXM, the arylcyclohexylamines like ketamine PCP MXE, and the xphenidines. Even something like ether or completely other inhalant gases can be considered dissociatives, but it's not all necessarily all the same thing.
The term rather seems to refer to all drugs with dissociative effect, but apparently broadly such an effect may be reached in several ways - kappa opioid receptor or NMDA for example.
That salvia is called an atypical dissociative also reflects what is traditionally seen or known as a dissociative drug, plus its easier since the far majority are the NMDA antagonists.
And psychedelics can also be quite dissociative.

Cannabis and cannabinoids aren't like that for example, sure they can be completely different chemicals but at the end of the day it's all about what they do at the receptors CB1, CB2, the anandamide system...

So my point is: some drug classes are more lumped up because of how they make us feel, but can be significantly different, and other drug classes keep it more in a family.

Which is not to say that perhaps this all changes in the future when still other drugs and delivery systems are discovered..

I found some parallel in researches between ketamine and nitrous regarding their antidepressant action. The latest article about this issue can be found here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4673867/

 

[Renald]

That seems unethical to me. As a medical professional I would think your self medicating would be ill advised. I could be totally wrong, but that's how it strikes me.

No, this is my life and I am the one who knows my symptoms and situation the best, also there are no doctors who can spend more time on my problem as I can spend by myself, these are simple facts. How can it be unethical (??) for a doctor to treat himself?! Psychiatry is not a manual specialty of medicine, like dentistry, where you can hardly be better than the specialist, because you need manual skills. The only thing you need in brain science is information, and there is plenty of information now. Can I trust the psychiatrist who never heard about SSRI brain zaps as a discontinuation symptom, who wants me to taper high potency benzodiazepine in a week, who never heard about ketamine (and NMDA antagonists) as probable future antidepressants. I dont trust my doctors, because I see they dont have an information I received in last several years reading plenty of articles, forums and user reports. Also, being a dentist I can easily accept the fact, that almost every patient can have better theoretical knowledge on a specific issue in dentistry, if he is smart enough and knows how to search for information. There is too much information now even for a specialist to have more knowledge in a very narrow area. NMDA antagonists and depression in our country is exceptionally narrow area, most psychs I spoke with no not even know what NMDA antagonist is ...

 

[Renald]

I would recommend looking at clinical trials of Ketamine to treat depression rather than trying nitrous to get lasting relief from depression. In Minnesota there are current clinical trials and doctors with treatment programs using Ketamine. As someone who has dealt with major depression and a variety of medications I would be cautious with SSRI, SNRI, and the like because they aren't effective and in my experience with them I have had worse symptoms and side effects. Not to say this will happen to you but make sure if you do try psychiatric medications that is managed by a doctor/psychiatrist that can monitor how you react to them. I can't speak yet on how effective Ketamine is on depression in a medical setting but I have read that there is more success than the older depression medications. Here is an article about it: http://nautil.us/issue/31/stress/a-vaccine-for-depression
If you do try nitrous to treat your depression please report back on the long term effects. I would advise against dxm to treat depression because of the risk of psychotic breaks over time (depending on dose, frequency)

At this moment there are no chances for me to go to USA for a clinical trial due to time and money limitations. I live in EU, I have searched for these in EU, also I spoke with my country psychs, but all of them either ignored me or refused to do this, because this would be illegal. I used ketamine for some time, and I can say it has perfect short-time (to a week) effects, but I cannot obtain it legally even being a doctor myself. DXM is easy to obtain, but now I am on Cymbalta and cannot fully stop it due to discontinuation syndrome and panic attacks. Seems for me it is working in anti-anxiety and anti-panic way. There was a moment I was off it and tried DXM at low doses 60-90 mg per day, and seems I had an effect, but it was less pronounced and lasted only a day-two. If I could stop Cymbalta fully now, I would try DXM again, I dont want to risk serototin syndrome using them both.
Nitrous is available for me, but it is difficult to dosage. Maybe the problem I havent a more pronounced effect, that I cannot maintain high enough concentration of it for a long time due to not having oxygen tank. Premixing them both at, lets say 50/50 ratio and breathing for a hour, as I read in some study, have pronounced antidepressive effects even after the main effect of nitrous ended.

 

[dxm231]

Ah I assumed you were in the US, my mistake. I am happy to hear Cymbalta works to treat anxiety and I wish you the best of luck with the nitrous because depression is no joke. If you can find a link to that study I would be interested to read it.

 

[Renald]

Ah I assumed you were in the US, my mistake. I am happy to hear Cymbalta works to treat anxiety and I wish you the best of luck with the nitrous because depression is no joke. If you can find a link to that study I would be interested to read it.

Possibly, it is one of these studies: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=nitrous+antidepressant
Read the abstracts of the studies not older as 10 years. Most full text articles can be found via this webpage - http://gen.lib.rus.ec/scimag/

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

Considering depression appears to be a mixture of toxic thought patterns and genetic neurochemical imbalances, nitrous would be largely ineffective for this purpose.
It is so quickly released from the body there would appear to be very little time for it to cause any sort of synaptic plasticity, there simply wouldn't be enough stimulation, and no one is entirely sure if the firing patterns caused by nitrous oxide are compatible with synaptic plasticity.

However one TECHNICALLY could predispose themselves to happier more rational thought patterns from the high induced by nitrous, but this also seems unlikely also due to the short duration of the drug.
I'm a firm believer that for less severe forms of depression, non-medicinal interventions are often best, and even with the more severe cases, medication should be used to prevent suicide attempts and return one to baseline where they are once again able to take personal action against the illness without the use of medication.
Ketamine does seem to be well suited for this purpose in many people as unlike SSRI's and other antidepressants it acts very rapidly and can be ceased without withdrawal symptoms.

 

[Renald]

Considering depression appears to be a mixture of toxic thought patterns and genetic neurochemical imbalances, nitrous would be largely ineffective for this purpose.
It is so quickly released from the body there would appear to be very little time for it to cause any sort of synaptic plasticity, there simply wouldn't be enough stimulation, and no one is entirely sure if the firing patterns caused by nitrous oxide are compatible with synaptic plasticity.

However one TECHNICALLY could predispose themselves to happier more rational thought patterns from the high induced by nitrous, but this also seems unlikely also due to the short duration of the drug.
I'm a firm believer that for less severe forms of depression, non-medicinal interventions are often best, and even with the more severe cases, medication should be used to prevent suicide attempts and return one to baseline where they are once again able to take personal action against the illness without the use of medication.
Ketamine does seem to be well suited for this purpose in many people as unlike SSRI's and other antidepressants it acts very rapidly and can be ceased without withdrawal symptoms.

If we breath nitrous for a quite long time, it is present in organism all this time. Ketamine is also short acting drug, but looks it is almost perfect antidepressant at this moment.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

Extended sessions may give such effects, but I would assume it would be on a psychological basis opposed to neurological.
Considering nitrous has been used in this fashion for quite a long time across all demographics of people, it seems like if it provided any pronounced and lasting effect on depression it would have elucidated already if it indeed conferred lasting neurochemical changes upon it's user.