New study on Kratom and heart damage

[w01fg4ng]

Interesting thread.

No disrespect to the guy's death and his family, but I had to read the coroner's death certificate results in the apparently kid's voice.

Just re-iterating what Plasticity said, "apparent acute mitragynine toxicity" sounds far from conclusive.

 

[《Plasticity》]

They actually didn't use rats they used stem cells. Doing a little research, with the cardiac stem cells they are superior to animal models especially in testing drugs except in one area: it only shows how the drug effects the heart directly it doesn't reflect the metabolism other organs have on the chemical before it reaches the heart. Interesting stuff. So I wouldn't worry too much further testing is needed.

I'm aware of that. I wasn't actually reffering to that study, rather than this quote used in the study in reference to previously established data "Fatal incidents with Mitragynine have been associated with cardiac arrest.". I assume this is in reference to studies brought forth to determine the LD50 of mitragynine in animals being that there have been no recorded death in human from mitragynine overdose. Rats are almost always used when determining LD50.

 

[noone1]

I'm aware of that. I wasn't actually reffering to that study, rather than this quote used in the study in reference to previously established data "Fatal incidents with Mitragynine have been associated with cardiac arrest.". I assume this is in reference to studies brought forth to determine the LD50 of mitragynine in animals being that there have been no recorded death in human from mitragynine overdose. Rats are almost always used when determining LD50.

Oh I see, it's kind of fishy that they didn't link any sources to that sentence you're quoting I do see that there have been testing on rats but I can't find any sources of ld50 studies or rats having heart problems from it, since you're assuming I suppose you can't either? I figured out how to click on the actual study so I can see more now; nearly every death they cite involving kratom also involved several other drugs some like propolhexedrine and tramadol.

Also:

Our study provides first scientific evidence of cardiotoxicity of Mitragynine. The IC50 of Mitragynine (0.91 µM) observed in our study was close to the drug concentrations measured postmortem though higher doses of Mitragynine were likely to be present in the victims’ system. However, direct evidence of fatal cardiotoxicity of Mitragynine is still lacking. This is compounded by unavailable reference ranges of Mitragynine in plasma as Kratom alkaloids or their metabolites are usually not target analytes of toxicology screening [27].

I almost hate to mentioned too but:

This work was supported by the National Research Foundation (Grant number NRF2008-CRP003-02) and National Medical Research Council (Grant number NMRC EDG10may050) of Singapore; and the Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation Malaysia (Sciencefund Grant to Tan Mei Lan). The funders had no role in study design, data collection and analysis, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscript.

Singapore is the place where they banned chewing gum and well Malaysia... nuff said.

 

[JohnHenery8]

A best friend, opiate addict who is clean now used Kratom a lot after his addiction came to light and had to quit.

He always used Head shop kratom of a good brand. Mang Da.

I know for a fact this is all he took for months on end. During a doctor or court ordered visit (I don't remember) he tested possitive to "Synthetic Amphetamines"

I remember a brand of Kratom containing RC chemicals and hurt people...if I remmeber correctly?

Basically just getting at that you should stick to Botanical sites and as clean as possible product. If it stresses you out maybe experiment with other drugs... I know leaving your DOC sucks but....the stress load on your heart is most likely worse than the Kratom is.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Oh I see, it's kind of fishy that they didn't link any sources to that sentence you're quoting I do see that there have been testing on rats but I can't find any sources of ld50 studies or rats having heart problems from it, since you're assuming I suppose you can't either? I figured out how to click on the actual study so I can see more now; nearly every death they cite involving kratom also involved several other drugs some like propolhexedrine and tramadol.

Also:

I almost hate to mentioned too but:

Singapore is the place where they banned chewing gum and well Malaysia... nuff said.

I was actually giving them the benefit of the doubt. I assumed LD50 studies would be the only other source of data knowing that no deaths have been attributable to mitragynine alone. I didn't think they would actually discredit themselves by citing those poly drug overdoses... which is even better knowing that this issue has actually never been noted anywhere else. So while they were referring to human OD's, mitragynine was obviously not the cause of death in those cases. The funding location raises some red fags, malaysia borders thailand and not only is kratom illegal in both countries, they are both the worlds largest exporters of kratom and have some of the harshest laws set in place to stop the use of it. I just hope this isn't an attempt to see that kratom is banned in other countries by funding slanderous studies in an attempt to stop the trade.

Just to provide some backstory to those particular overdoses for those unaware. The O-desmethltramadol OD's were the result of a headshop product that went by the name of "krypton". It contained very minimal amounts of kratom which served only as a base for the producer to lace with o-desmethltramadol (the primary active metabolite of tramadol). The stuff was very active at doses where actual kratom would only produce threshold effects (.5 - 2gs). Overdosing on the kratom before the o-desmethltramadol would be 100% impossible. Unfortunately it's likely that the victims assumed it was regular kratom and took what would be a standard to above average dose and died.

The amount of O-DT that would be in say, 15 grams, which unadulterated would be a large but physically safe dose of plain leaf kratom, would likely contain enough O-DT to kill someone with no opioid tolerance so it was clearly not the kratom that killed those people. In regards to that propylhexadrine case not only was the cause of death ruled propylhexadrine toxicity, if you continue to read the case report you will see that that person also had morphine, promethazine, APAP in his system. Propylhexadrine is a notoriously dirty stimulant with lot's of CNS side-effects. An overdose of that is bound to induce all kinds of arrhythmias and cardiac issues. Anyways this study never really bothered me in the first place, kratom's track record speaks for itself. I just hope I'm not right about the funders intents.

 

[JohnHenery8]

What was the band that contained propylhexadrine? When my buddy told me about the test results I searched for awhile but couldn't find any results. I would be interested in learning more.

 

[The King of Beans]

Just wanted to reply to this thread and state from my experince, KRATOM IS BAD FOR YOUR HEART (Especially the extracts and tinctures they sell at the gas stations)

I did a normal dose of it today and had a minor heart attack symptoms. Couldn't breath, and it felt just like when i used to do stimulants.

I am sure it is safe in moderation for people who don't have any heart issues, but I highly recommend avoiding this crap if you have heart trouble. Also it's bad for the liver too....I got bad liver pain the last few times I did it. So not sure if it's the combo of other herbs they are mixing it with or the kratom itself. Most likely the kratom. And they even have a warning on the bottle saying not to take if you have liver problems or heart disease.

so that should tell people right there.

Just wanted to warn people away from this stuff, to hopefully save a life or save someone from unnessecary heart damage. The buzz isn't that great anyway...not worth it.

Mdma far better and far less damaging on the heart from my experience.

Bottom line is- Kratom sucks.

But at least it wasn't addictive at all for me. I did it everyday for months and quit with zero withdrawls. But then when I tried it again I got severe nausea and puked all night and then had the heart attack and liver symptoms today when I tried it.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

I've never once experienced a problem with kratom. Therefore kratom is awesome and appropriate for everyone.

See what I did there? 8)

As far as I know kratom has been used in southern Thailand for millennia, so one would think that if it was seriously hepatotoxic we'd know about that by now.

 

[Mycophile]

Just wanted to reply to this thread and state from my experince, KRATOM IS BAD FOR YOUR HEART (Especially the extracts and tinctures they sell at the gas stations)

I did a normal dose of it today and had a minor heart attack symptoms. Couldn't breath, and it felt just like when i used to do stimulants.

I am sure it is safe in moderation for people who don't have any heart issues, but I highly recommend avoiding this crap if you have heart trouble. Also it's bad for the liver too....I got bad liver pain the last few times I did it. So not sure if it's the combo of other herbs they are mixing it with or the kratom itself. Most likely the kratom. And they even have a warning on the bottle saying not to take if you have liver problems or heart disease.

so that should tell people right there.

Just wanted to warn people away from this stuff, to hopefully save a life or save someone from unnessecary heart damage. The buzz isn't that great anyway...not worth it.

Mdma far better and far less damaging on the heart from my experience.

Bottom line is- Kratom sucks.

But at least it wasn't addictive at all for me. I did it everyday for months and quit with zero withdrawls. But then when I tried it again I got severe nausea and puked all night and then had the heart attack and liver symptoms today when I tried it.

There is ZERO proof that it is bad for your liver, and the many flaws in this one study have already been pointed out so that there is Still no proof it is actually bad for one's heart unless one has predisposition for heart problems.

I'm sorry to hear about your problems, but some substances just don't agree with some people and everything you are saying is purely anecdotal based on your own experiences.

Some people have gotten jaundice from one use while others have experienced no problems.

On the other hand, MDMA has caused deaths in people with no prior conditions which Kratom by itself has not done so by that evidence I would cause MDMA is more damaging.

I personally love Kratom and unless there is more proof it is actually damaging to EVERYONE's heart (not just POSSIBLY some people with predisposition for Torsade de pointes) I will continue to partake in it from time to time.

 

[Jcook76]

Hello everyone... just registered on the site.. doing some research on Kratom and the pros and cons of it.. very interesting to say the least. I've just heard about this in the last 5 hours and have been looking everywhere for anything about mixing Kratom and any kind of heart med.. I am a cardiac patient and have had 4 heart attacks since 2010 and will most likely have one or two more .. I am on blood pressure meds , a beta blocker, blood thinner, and I am also on Norco for several issues with tendons and nerve damage in my arms. I've not found any info if Kratom does not mix well with any of the heart meds, I'm very interested in trying this as a fill in or whatever you want to call it when the very limited supply of Norco run out because of all the cut downs and cut offs that are happening now that Dr's have got us all strung out on opiates. I know this is an older thread but any info would be great.. thanx

 

[soundsystem00]

I know I PERSONALLY do NOT want to have to quit Kratom, which is really why I am so much more concerned about this study...MUCH more so the link in the first post than the anecdotal death listed in the second one.

Kratom has become my favorite drug and it FEELS safe to me, so unless it is TRULY likely to cause death I would greatly prefer not having to completely quit it forever.

Lol