Opioids Naltrexone tolerance and reverse withdrawal causes opioid high

[daveslaine]

My last dose of opiates was months ago.

A week ago I started taking Naltrexone to make myself very sensitive to opiates the next time I use.

I began with 25mg and it was very uncomfortable and painful to be on it... I even got some minor withdrawal symptoms.

But I've been upping the dose, and now even 200mgs of it does not affect me.

So I stopped taking, and now I straight up feel like I'm at least on a small 10mg oxy dose. Everything feels good, there is a sense of warmth(not placebo I never have this), and I have far longer endurance and toleration of pain than before. For example, I can be in front of a computer for an hour, whereas normally 10 minutes is a lot for me, now I just read up stuff and don't feel any pain or anything.

At the gym, I can push way harder and further..

Is it possible my body has sensitized itself to natural endorphins a lot? I've been on naltrexone and have been taking very high doses lately. Can't imagine what 40mg oxycodone rectally would feel like now

 

[cj]

interesting I dont really know the answer to your question though

 

[daveslaine]

Does it test as a false positive for opiates? I may have to take a drug test soon

 

[f33lg00d]

I'd rather not have a high tolerance to Naltrexone, what happens when I od? surely it could confuse the medical staff and they might not figure out you just have a tolerance to naltrexone. Or that idea but more coherently articulate.

 

[daveslaine]

Just took another 150mg naltrexone. Even while on it, it's like my endorphins are attempting to overpower it. I'm seriously feeling a warmth and opioid high now.

 

[tricomb]

This is incredible. Please give us way more information.

I want background information (like why are you taking naltrexone to begin with, what was your habit/DOC like), complete with details and everything that your willing to share on this concept.

How long were you taking naltrexone before you stopped taking it and experienced this phenomenon?

To confirm, you are experiencing the desired effects of opioids without having ingested any non-endogenous (foreign) opioids into your body?!

 

[daveslaine]

This is incredible. Please give us way more information.

I want background information (like why are you taking naltrexone to begin with, what was your habit/DOC like), complete with details and everything that your willing to share on this concept.

How long were you taking naltrexone before you stopped taking it and experienced this phenomenon?

To confirm, you are experiencing the desired effects of opioids without having ingested any non-endogenous (foreign) opioids into your body?!

I had my last morphine oral dose of 40mg two Fridays ago.

Been taking naltrexone for a week now. At first, it felt pretty bad being on it, now my body and mind are drawn to taking naltrexone constantly, and each time at higher doses. It's like my body knows by taking naltrexone, it ups my endogenous opioids.

It's hard to explain, but im just as addicted to swallowing more naltrexone pills as if they are oxies, except they cause my own body to make me high.

I've been feeling really good and really secure while on these. Think about it.

Opiates lower endorphins and cause you to become desensitized. With opiates, you must take them to feel its effects, as soon as the drug leaves, withdrawals begin.

With naltrexone, were causing the reverse. We're causing the body to withdraw, and the balancing effects are to become sensitized and release more endorphins...

Very hard to explain, but I definitely am feeling a nod as well, and im not exaggerating.

The only difference is, endorphins are cleaner and don't have that same obvious euphoria and natural feel as morphine... Endorphins are more cleaner and less pronounced.

 

[daveslaine]

This is incredible. Please give us way more information.

I want background information (like why are you taking naltrexone to begin with, what was your habit/DOC like), complete with details and everything that your willing to share on this concept.

How long were you taking naltrexone before you stopped taking it and experienced this phenomenon?

To confirm, you are experiencing the desired effects of opioids without having ingested any non-endogenous (foreign) opioids into your body?!

By the way, research low dose naltrexone. The theory is that by blocking your natural opiates for a period of time, the body compensates by increasing endorphin production and INCREASING OPIATE RECEPTORS.

However they are talking about doses of 4mg. I'm taking 200mg, and each time I keep taking more. I assume when I stop taking naltrexone, I will have a period of 3 days where my endorphin levels will keep rising and rising and I will be even more higher than ever before.

Think about it this way.

Opiates and withdrawals are connected. They are literally a bond or two sides of a coin.

Oxycodone acts as an exogenous opiate. Without it, withdrawals kick in.

But naltrexone, acts as the exogenous withdrawal, and without it, opiate effects kick in.

So with naltrexone, the opiate effects peak as the drug is wearing off, or if you have a high tolerance, even while your on it, but opiate effects peak as the naltrexone is metabolized and no longer in the system

 

[Mass08]

Dude you know that high doses of naltrexone have been linked to liver damage right? I was provided a pamphlet in my last rehab that showed that 50mg was enough to completely saturate all opiate receptors for 24 hours. So I don't really see there being any benefit in taking 4 times that. No offense what so ever but I think that you are just an addict and like pavlovs dogs your brain has been trained to think that more pills = better feelings, so in conclusion I think your just getting a placebo effect even though you say it's not. If you do indeed feel really good than thats cool and all, but I wouldn't keep taking such intense amounts of naltrexone.

P.S. Taking naltrexone made me incredibly depressed. Hate that shit.

 

[sekio]

It's more likely you are just not feeling shitty any more after the naltrexone kicks off.

Although, if naltrexone is a broad enough spectrum opioid antagonist, maybe kappa antagonism plays a role here. Who knows..

 

[Serotonin101]

Do your pupils constrict when you feel "high"? Slowed breathing? Other opiate physical side effects?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

This phenomenon sounds plausible, although I'm sure it varies greatly from person to person and such. Here's some relevant info:

Studies in opioid-free animals have shown that, by causing a transient blockade of opioid receptors, low doses of antagonists stimulate increased production, or upregulation, of muopioid receptors in regions of the brain that control pain responses [references in Mannelli et al. 2006]. Therefore, it seems plausible that after antagonist effects wear off, greater numbers of opioid receptors are available to bind with pain-relieving opioids in the circulatory system, whether externally administered (eg, morphine) or endogenous peptides (eg, endorphins). At the same time, it has been noted that the body responds to the temporary opioid-receptor blockade by producing substantially increased amounts of beneficial natural endorphins [NCI 2007; Smith et al 2007]. However, if the opioid-receptor blockade by antagonist is too extensive or continues too long, these pain relieving benefits are not realized, so the dose and half-life of the particular antagonist are critical factors. [source]

So I stopped taking, and now I straight up feel like I'm at least on a small 10mg oxy dose.

When did you stop taking it and how long after that did you start noticing the mild opiate feeling? From your later post it's sounds like you haven't stopped taking the naltrexone (?) so I'm confused.

Does it test as a false positive for opiates? I may have to take a drug test soon

We don't do drug testing questions but the answer can easily be found through Google.

Although, if naltrexone is a broad enough spectrum opioid antagonist, maybe kappa antagonism plays a role here. Who knows..

I'm unclear on whether or not naltrexone binds to kappa opioid receptors. Here's a source that makes it sound like it doesn't [source] but I have seen other places where it says it does.

I'd rather not have a high tolerance to Naltrexone, what happens when I od? surely it could confuse the medical staff and they might not figure out you just have a tolerance to naltrexone. Or that idea but more coherently articulate.

I think it's highly unlikely that a person could develop such a high tolerance to naltrexone that naloxone would no longer work to reverse an opioid overdose. If needed they'd just give you more naloxone, which is the protocol for when people don't respond enough to a normal dose of naloxone anyway.

 

[tricomb]

Yeah I've done research on LDN (low dose naltrexone) and ULDN (ultra-low dose naltrexone), never heard of this phenomenon before though.

I wish I had some naltrexone! Or that methylnaltrexone wasn't IV-only =\

 

[SAMCRO]

The science of being able to boost endorphins by low dose naltrexone is pretty well documented. I'm actually talking to my sub dr about doing very low dose at bedtime for after I taper off my 2mg/day sub dose. OP my advice would be to only take naltrexone 1 time per day and see if the positive effects remain. I bet you're just taking a bunch of naltrexone unnecessarily.

 

[Ksa]

I'm taking notes lol!

Good work.

 

[down508]

naltrexone isn't supposed to have opiate effects. the purpose of naltrexone is to block opiates and reduce cravings. the reason why upping your dose didnt cause any effects is because naltrexone is an antagonist, it effectively gives you reverse opiate effects.

 

[tricomb]

When you guys say low dose naltrexone, what does that mean to you? How many milligrams, or micrograms is LDN and what about ULDN? I'm VERY tempted to ask my pain clinic about going on ULDN but I am hesitant for a few reasons, primarily, because I worry about any future doctor I have looking at my chart and seeing I've been prescribed naltrexone; it raises red flags just like if you've been RX'd buprenorphine or methadone, doesn't it?

I mean, there's a lot of stigma associated with naltrexone, at least where I live, but that's because I'm talking about court-ordered involuntary implantation of naltrexone implant aka Vivitrol for raging opioid addicts, it's stigmatized just like court ordered Antabuse (disulfiram) for raging alcoholics.

Anyways, I have heard of LDN and ULDN before but I had no idea it could help, at least someone, this much. From what I understand, it can be RX'd with full agonist opioids? I'm a bit confused by this part. I'm guessing that we're counting on the ultra-low/low dose naltrexone not precipitating withdrawals? I don't know much about naltrexone. I am much more well-versed with naloxone.

 

[Serotonin101]

Uldn is in the micrograms range. Its supposed to super sensitize the receptors and help prevent tolerance and dependency when Co administered with a full agonist.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Yeah the OP in this thread is talking about titrating up to 200mg, whereas ULDN doses can be as low as 1mcg and LDN is normally around 1-5mg from what I've seen, so I assume anything under 1mg would be considered ULDN. Even normal doses for opioid addiction/blocking effects are only 50mg/day. Here's an interesting diary on someone's experience using naltrexone alongside hydromorphone to reduce tolerance (I somehow doubt this guy is really a doctor though): Naltrexone Trial Diary

 

[Scottadone]

Do your eyes go smaller? If they dont, i think its placebo. Just because your opioid receptors are more sensitive, you still have to put the opiate in your brain? And wouldnt taking another naltrexone dose kill the opiate effect?

Im sure it sensitizes receptors, but i dont think its anywhere near what OP is saying. Hell, when im really tired i feel like im high/nodding too!