Desperate My teenage daughter keeps being violent

[JessFR]

That's an admirable goal, but the real challenge is being able to make that connection. It's totally possible to put up a facade of normalcy for a counselor and then behave as usual when they leave.
I agree that a holistic approach would be a good idea: the counselor should involve you too. "it takes two to tango" after all.
The unfortunate reality is that it will take a major change or disruption to your child's life before something changes. This may very well involve police, or you could try taking her to a hospital and having her evaluated for mental health issues, or maybe a session with the two of you and a GP/counselor.
It's not going to go away just by asking her nicely.

I say this with the disclaimer that I don't have kids let alone violent kids.

But I hate the idea of calling the cops on family. I hate the idea of using the hospital system too. If she were actually suicidally depressed or something then yes, but behavioral problems? That seems like an inappropriate reason for hospitalization.

Group therapy is a much better idea if you can get her to go.

I disagree that it'll take major change for her to stop though. I still believe it's highly likely she'll just grow out of it.

The question is can you stand to wait that long?

Teenagers are hormone bombs. Especially teenage girls. Just cause she acts like this now doesn't suggest at all that she'll still be like it as an adult.

 

[JessFR]

When she starts beating up her mother then you know what, let her go to the hospital and see what happens.

You do not hit other people or get physical with them unless in self defense.

This girl needs to get that message loud and clear. Even if it is painful as fuck.

Also...I don’t see her going to group therapy willingly...in a hospital setting she will be away from the home setting and have a chance to get better behaviors bc the triggers at home won’t be present.

There is physical violence and it can’t be allowed to escalate until she kills someone. Which could happen.

And I am only wording this strongly bc I have feelings based on my own experience as a very fucked up kid who never got physical bc I knew there were boundaries.

Yea but you are not this kid. And neither was I.

You can't treat every kid the same way expecting the same measures will be universally effective.

She will probably grow out of this behavior. But if you put her in a hospital you're essentially starting her on a road of institutionalization and/or labeling and making it a lot more likely she'll have life long problems rather than temporary problems as a teenager.

If you label someone, they're likely to come to think of themselves as that label.

That's why I don't like the idea of cops or institutions.

 

[Shady's Fox]

Another thing that would fly off-radar would be the lack of sauce, poverty. There's countless studies as to how poverty can damage your mental health and how it can lead to various disease one being schizophrenia. Her mom when she came on BL, aside that she didn't give a fuck about this thread she didn't throw any hints to her financial status.

 

[JessFR]

What I am saying is that with physical violence I don't play games. Period.

Right but I'm sure you'd agree there are bad ways to approach trying to improve this situation. For instance fighting violence with violence is probably one of the most obvious bad solutions.

Id say throwing her out of the house or disowning her is another.

You can't fight abuse with abuse and you can't be a good parent by abdicating your role as one.

What I'm saying is I fear that calling the cops or trying to put her in hospital would only be making a bad situation worse.

I'll freely admit I don't have a lot of good advice of my own but doing anything isn't automatically superior to do nothing nothing.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

It's a difficult one for sure. I'm from an age where a kid being a little twat would get a slap. I never got one myself because I never needed one. But the kids I know that got a fuckin good slap from their parents still show them total respect.

However, I've always said that respect is just fear in another guise...

 

[JessFR]

I will say there needs to be boundaries. Period.

I also grew up with family violence as well. IDK how you grew up.

In the end, as I said, I don't play with letting anyone hit me. Period.

I have to end this here or I am going to get set off.

I experienced plenty of abuse growing up too.

And given I'm not a parent, it's probably fair to say I'm inclined to see things more from the perspective of the messed up kid than the parent.

I appreciate your feelings on the subject, and I have certainly don't wish to upset you, but I stand by my belief that calling the cops or trying to hospitalize her isn't likely to be helpful. That doesn't mean the solution is to just put up with it either.

 

[Soso78]

Slap the shit out of her

 

[JessFR]

Slap the shit out of her

Trust you to take my example of the worst possible "solution" seriously.

 

[JessFR]

It’s not an ideal solution. That’s all I will say.

I was a messed up kid too...and I have had messed up Doctor experiences (as a teen) hospital experiences (as an adult)...so I know it’s not perfect.

I'll admit that I'm probably particularly biased against these options. For one threats of this nature were one of the ways my abuser ensured my silence.

But also.. Having been a child with behavioral issues, I'm certain involving the cops would have just made my behavior worse.

I actually was taken to be evaluated by doctors and that didn't seem to help anything.

And as I said before. If you label someone they will tend to conform to that label. Hence why I fear this approach might actually make the problem worse in the long run.

There's no guarantee it'll help at all in the short term either for that matter.

 

[Soso78]

Trust you to take my example of the worst possible "solution" seriously.

Didn’t even read what u said. Ur overly emotional most the time so I rarely bother.

if she big enough to hit she big enough to get hit.

 

[JessFR]

Didn’t even read what u said. Ur overly emotional most the time so I rarely bother.

if she big enough to hit she big enough to get hit.

Ah so an adult should hit a 3 year old by that logic if they hit first?

Maybe don't listen to soso.

 

[Soso78]

Ah so an adult should hit a 3 year old by that logic if they hit first?

Maybe don't listen to soso.

She not 3 though

 

[Iceman1216]

As a parent who has been down this path, and spent a huge amount of money on this issue, I will say that Boundaries need to be set No matter how painful! Human being do learn from the Gift of desperation, and a god healthy dose of fear. Not fear of physical violence, but fear of an outcome that they do not like or want.

 

[Meth novice 79]

Devils advocate over here, with SOME level experience to back it up.
Hope you get to see this, and take it less personally from a stranger on the net (who’s been where you are) than you would someone in your daily life.

Your baby is in pain.
And is expressing it the only way she’s learned how.
Based just on what you’ve said, she is likely coming out of trauma with PTSD.
Mum is safe and well finally now (on the road to sober) so she can finally break down and feel weak when she’s likely had to feel like the strong grown up one for so long.
She wants to beat you up a bit emotionally, she’s got some anger. That might be unfair given you are working so hard to be well for her, but she needs an outlet to express that.
Think of all the years you weren’t well, she wasn’t able to express then because she felt responsible for you too.
Being a parent is the most selfless act.
Recovering from addiction the most selfish.
You’re in a prick of a position here.

I’ve tried (and failed) to get sober from alcohol surrounded by 3 pissed off kids for almost a decade now.
A constant roller coaster with no ending. My third was so so angry at the world and at that she attempted suicide, landing in a coma for 5 days.
When that didn’t ‘soothe’ her hurt she started acting out violently, throwing knives, making demands, breaking into people’s homes. Anything to get that reaction from me that she was so used to, drunk and overreacting to her.

You have to learn the difference between giving, and giving of yourself.
No more splashing cash, she gotta earn that shit.
No more tantys and no more punishing. She’s virtually an adult, with her upbringing especially she is.
‘Pay’ her.
when she learns to communicate an emotion effectively and a solution is reached, reward it.
When she fails to do so, she gets nothing but your back turned.
Drama and antics get zilch, opening up and talking through her anger gets a pay off.
You have to get to know her all over again too. Learn to read her triggers and the signs an explosion is coming, and enact a plan you’ve both put together to counteract the inevitable tantrum.

Counselling is BS, all the works done at home with just the two of you.
She needs to feel like she’s earning your respect and that equally she is valued as a contributing member of your family.

LISTEN to her. Really HEAR her.
Her perspective is no less real than yours.

Get her a punching bag and name it ‘old mum’ or ‘ addict mum’

and then go cry in your room and pat yourself on the back.
Your doing the hardest thing anyone will ever have to do.
count your achievements with her too. It’ll help you lose the resentment she’s building in you.
Underneath it all she is still just your baby

 

[Meth novice 79]

I hate having to call the police period...I actually did have to call due to shit that went down at my apartment building recently and I am still mentally fucked from it. So please do not go there with me. I am telling you not to now. Period.

You want details I can share privately but I am telling you that I view calling the police as serious.

When someone puts your life in danger you view shit differently. Bitch all you want about it tho. IDC.

I would be interested in hearing where exactly you are coming from tbh.

Now. You are not this kid and I was not this kid. You are right there.

However, physical violence CANNOT be allowed. Don't send the message that it is something you will tolerate. In any case.

The hospital is not perfect and not the best solution. I don't think any of us on this site can really give the best advice. OP needs to think critically herself and consult with IRL experts. However I will say that this is behavior that needs to be dealt with somehow.

I kind of take issue with this ‘violence cannot be allowed’ statement.
On face value I understand what you are saying.

I was that parent btw.
When my daughter became violent and attacked her sibling with a knife, I called the police who had her detained under the mental health act and placed in hospital.
For 45 minutes, when she was deemed ‘safe for release’ and sent home with no consequence because the police just viewed it as a small domestic (it was. But it resulted in 5 stitches for her sister)
When she smashed a homeowners window and let herself in, I dragged her to the police station and had her make a report admitting guilt, and insisted she be charged.
I believed I was doing the right thing, teaching my child right from wrong. Right?

Wrong. She was 14. She knew right from wrong. They tend to teach that stuff early on. Like in kindergarten.
What they don’t teach though is how to deal with all the conflicting emotions of puberty, how to reconcile feelings in a broken home, how to build healthy relationships and ask for what you need when you’ve never felt you could before. Violence doesn’t need to be ‘allowed’ to happen. But it will always have a root cause. One that neither the cops or the emergency dept will ever find.

 

[quaalMan]

However, physical violence CANNOT be allowed. Don't send the message that it is something you will tolerate. In any case.

So lets see here, violence is wrong unless it's calling people with guns to physically restrain her? Or better yet institutionalizing her where they force meds to keep her compliant (See the invega thread for how horrible that can be). So basically show her that violence is okay as long as it's a bunch of uncaring strangers doing the brutalizing

For what it's worth OP I would avoid getting authorities involved if at all possible. I know in my case when I was a teen my parents went the police and forced therapy route (granted I wasn't violent), and I lost pretty much all respect. Showed they couldn't handle things on their own and the results were much worse than if they'd done corporal punishment (Or better yet tried actually listening).

LISTEN to her. Really HEAR her.
Her perspective is no less real than yours.

Being older and having been on both sides of the equation now, I'd agree with all the advice from Meth novice (Especially the ignore/reward strategy). Although hormones are a hell of a drug themselves, so don't expect her to be forthcoming, rational, or easy to read.

 

[Meth novice 79]

I

So lets see here, violence is wrong unless it's calling people with guns to physically restrain her? Or better yet institutionalizing her where they force meds to keep her compliant (See the invega thread for how horrible that can be). So basically show her that violence is okay as long as it's a bunch of uncaring strangers doing the brutalizing

For what it's worth OP I would avoid getting authorities involved if at all possible. I know in my case when I was a teen my parents went the police and forced therapy route (granted I wasn't violent), and I lost pretty much all respect. Showed they couldn't handle things on their own and the results were much worse than if they'd done corporal punishment (Or better yet tried actually listening).



Being older and having been on both sides of the equation now, I'd agree with all the advice from Meth novice (Especially the ignore/reward strategy). Although hormones are a hell of a drug themselves, so don't expect her to be forthcoming, rational, or easy to read.

totally agreed.
Cops, hospital time any and all authority was THE single biggest waste of time ever and only served to traumatise us further.
Damned shame I had to learn that the hardest way possible.

 

[Meth novice 79]

Who do you mean by "they"?

Are you supposed to teach them right from wrong? Or do you expect the schools to do everything?

Both? And larger society in general?
It’s a community service of sorts.

 

[Meth novice 79]

Look, if someone who is mentally ill wants to attack me and harass me (dealt with that before) then you bet I am protecting myself any way I can lol. IDC if they have to have antipsychotics forced on them. I've taken them myself. They suck. But if you wanna be violent you open yourself up to people not putting up with it.

OP can do what she likes. I have a feeling a lot of people here just don't like that they were taken to the mental institution for whatever reason and as a result think that everyone else has to put up with bullshit like being attacked in their own home.

You throw punches or shit like that, you open yourself up to something you won't like.

Woah Honey. Relax.
No need to feel personally attacked for having a different perspective. And definitely no need to begin attacking others mental health experiences as a defence mechanism.

The beauty of forums is the coming together of different personal experiences to get the most out of advice.
This issue will never have a one size fits all right or wrong answer and it would just be awesome to see the OP succeed in her endeavour through a blend of everyone’s thoughts and efforts.

Stay chill x

 

[Iceman1216]

Hope you had a nice Christmas?/
Happy and healthy New year!!
Hows it going miss seeing you around?

I am doing well. Getting further out of the Dark hole that last year was (Too many deaths in my family

Thank you for the Honesty with above statement