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My MDMA experience

mb-909

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
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182
First of all I am new to this forum. I am male, around 65 kg and have been active for quite some time on other sites such as Eve Rave wanting to gain more information about MDMA. I have used MDMA 9 times over my life span in the following order:

1) 120 mg MDMA Hcl, pure
2) 35-50 mg MDMA, 2 weeks later, pure
3) 134 mg MDMA, 2 weeks later, pure
4) 134 mg MDMA, 1 weeks later, pure
5) 134 mg MDMA, 1 weeks later, pure or a beer?
6) 134 mg MDMA, mixed with 1 beer, 3 weeks later
7) 70 mg MDMA, mixed with 2 beer, 4 weeks later => Vision Problems
8 )140 mg MDMA Hcl, mixed with 1 beer, 5 months later
9) 100-140 mg MDMA, mixed with 1 beer, 5 and a half months later

I am not proud of my rolls. They gave me great pleasure, but in the end I wished I wouldn't have taken them. Researching through all kinds of studys I came to the conclusion that it is in fact highly neurotoxic compared to other substances. My greatest fear is the damage done to one of the oldest parts of the brain, the hyppocampus. This particular brain region is one of the most important brain regions, because it is such important for memory and recalling. I can't really tell if I have any noticeable brain damage, but I am scared as hell that the damage will show up in age. By the way, does anybody know the dosage used by Dr. GA Ricaurte in the famous monkey brain study? The picture is shown on http://www.dancesafe.org/drug-information/is-mdma-neurotoxic/, before and after use.

Now to the story how I got to MDMA. At the age of 14 I had an accident while skiing and fell in a coma for around 8 hours, after arriving at my hotel. During this time I was able to feel, hear and smell. Nobody noticed that I was in danger and so I was "sleeping" in my bed. It drove me nuts to hear all the people going in and out of my room. I was screaming, but nobody heard me. Arriving at the hospital, I finally woke up, but was unable to walk. I had to learn everything a second time from top to bottom, because I had no sense or motoric function. After 2-3 months I was back to normal and could walk again, like I did before.

Since that time I have had strong depressions getting worse from year to year. I started to hear voices, to have strange thoughts, being suicidal, to lose all feelings and emotions, stopped talking (spoke like 10-20 sentences a week), feared everything and became lonely. One day I was invited by an all friend to a party. That day I was suicidal again and I had nothing to lose. MDMA was such a great experience, because it gave me hope. I was able to feel again, I started to talk and did all the things I couldn't do. MDMA was also the only other hard drug besides alcohol (30-40 beers over the last 5 years)I ever took. Now I am going to go to a clinic for depressions. If I could talk to my oldself I would tell him to search for help, but it is to late now. At least I am not addicted to it anymore( I had to throw most of the pills away, that I wouldn't take them). Is it likely that I have done any severe damage to my brain? I am done with MDMA.

P.S.: I am german, so excuse my language ;)
 
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Hi. It is really unlikely that you have done any permanent damage to your brain. By the way, some info on that study:
Ricaurte's retracted article on the neurotoxicity of ecstasy, originally published in Science, has received a great deal of attention. This article was retracted after it was found that the testing materials were switched from MDMA to methamphetamine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retracted_article_on_neurotoxicity_of_ecstasy

It has not been proven yet, that MDMA is neurotoxic with recreational doses (~ < 300mg a night total) if you don't have hyperthermia.
High doses combined with high body temperature IS neurotoxic though.
That's why it's advised to drink 250-500ml water every hour if you dance, take regular breaks from physical activity. Also, consume salty snacks, fruit sugar pill for energy that your body can use during the night.

But if your relationship with MDMA is over, it's still better than your usage pattern when you began to take it. Use it once a month tops!
 
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I mean a different study, where the monkeys survived and were killed later on. My only fear for brain damage is that I lost the "magic".
 
Sorry, I kept editing my comment so there's some more info above.
Can you link me to that study?
So you say you lost the magic after only 9 uses?
 
I am not proud of my rolls. They gave me great pleasure, but in the end I wished I wouldn't have taken them. Researching through all kinds of studys I came to the conclusion that it is in fact highly neurotoxic compared to other substances. My greatest fear is the damage done to one of the oldest parts of the brain, the hyppocampus. This particular brain region is one of the most important brain regions, because it is such important for memory and recalling. I can't really tell if I have any noticeable brain damage, but I am scared as hell that the damage will show up in age. By the way, does anybody know the dosage used by Dr. GA Ricaurte in the famous monkey brain study? The picture is shown on http://www.dancesafe.org/drug-information/is-mdma-neurotoxic/, before and after use.

there is no evidence for neurotoxicity with mdma in normal recreational doses. the studies that find neurotoxicity typically use repeated injections of around 30-40mg/kg mdma. recent studies have shown that mg/kg doses for mdma in rats and humans should be identical to get comparable effects. so basically they are giving the animals 25-30x as much mdma, which of course is an overdose and in fact with some studies, the animals even die from such treatment.

ricaurte was initiall funded by a u.s. agency (was it nida? fda?) that publically admitted, that they're searching for a reason to ban mdma. many of his studies have been shown to contain a multitude of methological errors (using markers that don't check for cell death but tolerance, not checking for other drug use in polydrug users he uses as "mdma subjects", drawing conclusions from too small sample sizes and weak correlations), he has used methamphtamine (which is normally dosed much lower than mdma) instad of mdma, ...
really, if a paper has the name ricaurte on it, you can safely ignore it.
 
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My only fear for brain damage is that I lost the "magic".
If you have taken MDMA only 9 times, then you do not need to fear losing the magic just yet. That requires taking it more than 100 times.
 
i've just checked on the study with monkeys you cite.

they used injections of 5mg/kg twice daily, for 4 consecutive days. these seem rather low compared to the doses of rats, but you have to keep in mind that mdma itself isn't neurotoxic. its metabolites are (when they are present in concentrations above a certain treshold - kind of like the metabolites of paracetamol are toxic to the liver above a certain treshold). those monkey have a much more efficiant metabolism than humans and generate much higher levels of these metabolites than humans. in fact, because mdma inhibits its own metabolism, it's not even sure if humans could ever reach levels as high, regardless of the dose.

look at fig. 2 in this paper.
 
Thanks for the information. I still think it is a very dangerous drug, if used wrongly. Other Substances are bad for you, too, but not as bad as Ecstasy or MDMA. Just my opinion.
 
Every substance is dangerous if abused, that is true. Especially stimulants. Though, I am confident that within sane limits, MDMA (if pure) is one of the least dangerous among psychoactives. Millions of people are using it for decades without adverse consequence. There were for some people for sure, but like with every new substance, try a treshold dose to reveal possible problems. There are well estabilished guidelines for safe usage. You didn't know about them I guess looking at your usage pattern.
Anyway, if you still have second thoughts about it's safety, I also think it's better if you don't do it. Stay safe. :)
 
I don't know...I've abused mdma pretty badly but I find no mental functions damaged in the slightest. Even my memory is still really good and sharp. I can't say yet about any long term damage, but I'm a little skeptical about that because the studies out there are skewed in favor of putting a bad word out on mdma. I bet a lot of legal drugs do more damage.

Physically, I've endured some indirect damage caused by an inability to eat or sleep, though I've actually had that problem before I even started (always skipped breakfast and got use to all nighters for exams). I'm a little hesitant to say this, but if one were to evaluate me now they'd never have known I abused mdma from any form of test, whether it be physical or mental.

Of course, this may differ from other people's experiences and there are many that suffer adverse effects from mdma during and after. I've both heard and seen it myself. But, I just don't find that to be the case for me. I use to always be astounded how people would become depressed, moody, or feel like crap after an mdma session because I've never gotten that. I just felt not as high, and I enjoyed the light buzz and afterglow.

Though it's good to note I've endured some horrible experiences in my adolescent years and ever since then, anything that wasn't as bad as those times wouldn't ever get to me negatively. All of the little things that use to get me flustered suddenly became extremely easy to deal with, once I coped with those experiences.
 
My ability to do math was shot for awhile but it's been a few years now and I can do it all in my head again. I don't think the damage mdma does is anywhere near permanent.
 
If you have taken MDMA only 9 times, then you do not need to fear losing the magic just yet. That requires taking it more than 100 times.

My personal experience differs from above.
Taking it too many times in too short timespan and you will lose it.
In my case I'd say was about 10 times in 5 months. Doses were nothing extra ordinary, only on weekends (and just one day). Lost it. Now I'm on half a year break, hopefully recovering some of the magic.
 
The strange thing is, that the WOW efect only appeared after I used a certain pill. It was a blue NoName pill, which I used from week 3-6. Before and after I didn't have the slightest WOW feeling, which is kind of strange. MDMA = MDMA.

Maybe I overdosed the first time, used it to frequently and lastly didn't increase my dosage over 140 mg. I didn't split it most of the time, just 2 times making sure that I don't go over 140 mg (I am just about 65 kg => my limit has been around 2-2.2 mg pro kg body mass).
 
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The strange thing is, that the WOW efect only appeared after I used a certain pill. It was a blue NoName pill, which I used from week 3-6. Before and after I didn't have the slightest WOW feeling, which is kind of strange. MDMA = MDMA.

Maybe I overdosed the first time, used it to frequently and lastly didn't increase my dosage over 140 mg. I didn't split it most of the time, just 2 times making sure that I don't go over 140 mg (I am just about 65 kg => my limit has been around 2-2.2 mg pro kg body mass).

Or maybe it just wasn't MDMA the other times...
 
I didn't test it, but my friends told me that it is MDMA. So I think that I didn't hit the sweet spot, because of under- or overdosing.
 
I didn't test it, but my friends told me that it is MDMA. So I think that I didn't hit the sweet spot, because of under- or overdosing.

That doesn't tell you much. People think all sorts of different substances are MDMA. You need to test your stuff.

Well, underdosing yeah - that will make you feel weird and not good. Overdosing, well it could if you took way to much, but then you would know you took to much (throwing up, being floored, ect). Besides, none of the doses you took is overdosing, in any way.
And regarding hitting the sweet spot, you have a lot to go upwards before you take so much that it's unpleasant. Increasing the dose will at some point give you so much side effects that it's unpleasant (we're taking doses way over what you've taken).
 
@myr, I have been a heavy dancer, who didn't take long breaks or drank enough water in the beginning I guess. Hypertermia is considered around 38.7 degrees Celsius, but isn't your temperature around 38 degrees Celsius without dancing using MDMA? By the way you can't really compare rats with human beings (study for hypertermia and MDMA) in that kind of regard, because they can't sweat.

You can't tell if there is any brain damage since there hasn't been anything invented to tell for sure that there is damage.
 
Your normal body temperature can be as high as 37.7 celsius in the late afternoon. Hyperthermia is not a body temp. over a specific value. It is a condition of abnormally elevated temperature when your body produces more heat than it dissipates (wikipedia)
That may be true that rats do not sweat, however I am sure they have other clever ways to reduce their temperature. But no one wanted to compare that to humans and the way that hyperthermia occurs is not relevant either.

There are many methods which can be used to determine neurotoxicity.
I found this on the first page of google results:
http://www.thentc.com/stain_selection.htm

In MDMA's case, what they were watching for is 5HT levels in the brain which wasn't permanently reduced in test subjects. There was a temporary reduction, sure, basicly the receptors were overloaded and natural defensive process is to downregulate the release of neurotransmitters. But again, temporarily and using recreational doses.
 
Ok thanks, I am still a little bit scared that I didn't drink enough nor did I took long enough breaks while dancing, even though it only was in the beginning.

At least I found out an interesting interview with Dr. Shulgin about tolerance:



Ask Dr. Shulgin Online

ARCHIVE: April 10, 2002

MDMA (Ecstasy) Tolerance

Dear Dr. Shulgin:

Can you explain to me why MDMA has what appears to be such a prolonged occurrence of tolerance? I've heard a bunch of my raver friends tell me they just don't roll as hard as they used to and I find it hard to believe this can simply be written off as a decrease in the quality of pills. Many of my friends even tell me the first few times they rolled were the best but they just don't feel the effects as much anymore.

I would feel a lot more confident in your assurances that MDMA isn't neurotoxic if I perceived a tolerance to MDMA that was similar to psilocybin or LSD...but I just don't. Can you help me out here Sasha? I'm worried!

-- Moecat



Dear Dr. Shulgin:
After my first 150 MDMA pills, with any MDMA pill I took the positive effects were very low and negative were high. I was still trying to get that loveable feeling but I get absolutely nothing but a nasty hangover. I quit for a couple of months then tried it again and nothing but an awful hangover...will I ever get the loveable feeling back or is it gone forever?

-- Specialist

Dear Moecat and Specialist:

I have combined your letters in that both of you are experiencing the same property that MDMA invokes with repeated usage, and you are both asking the same question looking for some explanation.

The property you are experiencing is what I call the loss of the magic of that first experience. My first experience with this drug was indeed magical. I was suddenly one with myself, one with the world; I was a person who had no secrets from himself and one who could trust others to be as honest with him as he was with himself. Almost everyone has a vivid recollection of his first experience. That is what I call the "magic." But that is usually lost after a few experiences and, I do believe, is never recovered. The stimulant properties are still there, and the eye-twitch and tooth-grinding are still there, and some of the warmth and comfortable interactions, but the magic is gone.

This is not tolerance from the pharmacological point of view. Tolerance is lost with time. I do not believe that this "magic" loss is itself ever recovered. It appears that, after a certain number of drug uses, the magic slips away. The exact number probably varies with the person.

Which brings up your second points, those regarding the reports that MDMA may be neurotoxic. Despite the extensive research that has been spent upon it, there is still no objective evidence that MDMA damages human nerves. But I certainly can't argue but that there are brain changes that could be assignable. Take this "loss of magic" thing. Some brain change has occurred, and it does not appear to be reversible. Is this evidence of "damage?" I don't think so, but I don't know. Change? Yes. We can never walk the same path twice so the assignment of responsibility, of causality, is uncertain. Definitions that would distinguish between damage and change might help.

-- Dr. Shulgin
 
About hyperthermia: Is there anybody who suffered hyperthermia? I have been reading a lot and I found out that I usually had a flushed dry skin and dry mouth after partly long and heavy dancing on MDMA. The average temperature in the clubs, open locations, was between 12-20 C°. I didn't feel any diziness or other umcorftable feeling regarding my mind or body. I just felt hot for around 2-3 hours during the comedown. Is that normal? I suppose I wasn't drinking enough water during my party time.
 
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