my friend thinks that today's lsd is more potent than the 60's?

[ford442]

i think it only makes sense that people will pass off lower and lower amounts of acid as a dose - to stretch the money.. why bother making it stronger if people already know its cool and want it and it only costs you more to produce stronger hits...

 

[its.euphoric]

you shouldnt be convincing anyone to do anything that you yourself know very little about and have no experience in
your friend should not feel pressured by anyone to put anything in his/her body
they will consume if and when they are ready

research

its reasons like this why drugs are illegal (among many others)
people should never be peer pressured into making irresponsable choices

first... STFU.

Who says I haven't researched it?? I have researched lsd a lot. Ok I have went on erowid and looked up a lot of it. I just had never heard that about if it was any more potent than in the 60's. I know what to expect from a trip and I actually do know a lot more than most people that want to try it. I learn about new drugs for fun. I think it's interesting.

So before you try saying that I know nothing about it, think again. And also, I'm not pressuring him. I just want to convince him to do it cuz it would be cool if we would all do it together. I don't see anything wrong with that and it's not like it's going to hurt him. Lsd won't have any long term side effects. So just be quiet.

 

[ford442]

regardless, you probably shouldn't pressure the friend into taking it - but, i wouldn't advise against tempting and luring him with how much fun you know it is.. ;-)
wild colorful visions, overall happy feelings, mental revelations that show you new insight to the world.. play it up - there will be no disappointment involved..!
i remember i wanted to take it just from hearing stories and listening to the Beatles for years.. heh.. i only knew one person who had taken it when i first took it, but it still seemed like a fine, responsible, good idea.. and we had a great time.. let's see - for three of us it was our very first time on LSD at all - one friend already had it before.. we were all about 15...

so he's into the scare stories.. i remember worrying about that crap let's see.. for a long time i thought that there was often strychnine in acid.. LOL.. and that you would get 'gut rot' from eating too many doses - especially if you swallowed the paper..!! LOL.... omg.. people also told me that acid often had speed in it (why you feel energized) - great that people told me that because i later went and did some speed thinking 'oh well - i've already had it in acid' and long story short i stopped before the addiction really set in..

i'm just saying - these false rumors about acid are lies and cause all kinds of turmoil... in this case making one friend think the others are wrong somehow in wanting to try it... meh..

i am excited for you its.euphoric - you are right on with the bonding experience of friends trying it together.. it will indeed be a time you never forget..! :D:D:D:D:D:D

 

[retired_chemist]

Easy now. No reason to get uncivil.

jambi666 may be a little blunt, but his point is 100% valid. The only people that really should be taking LSD are people that really want to of their own accord.

And I gather you have not done it yourself. So yes you do not in fact have any real experience with it.

The first time I did LSD I had researched it too. I had done shrooms a few times. I knew for myself that I really truly wanted to do it. So I jumped right in and did about 375 micrograms.

Now that was a truly life changing experience. You, me, your friend - no of us and no one else on the planet has any experience with life changing experiences until well, life is changed.

Now I am not advocating people that have never done it go balls out like that. I am also not advocating that people who are really sure they want to not do that either, although these days I think the mentality is kind of different to where I am inclined to think it is maybe mostly just not a good idea.

But it seems to me that you are the one who really wants you all to have this experience together. The thing about psychedelics is they are about *you* in terms of they are about the person doing them. It does not sound like your buddy is ready to take that step. You want to have this group experience, I think that is great. If you go beyond a truly *shared* mentality and try to include someone who is not there, that sounds a lot like "it's kind of about me really" and that is definitely much different from the idea that psychedelics are about the person who is in fact choosing to do them.

 

[retired_chemist]

I would like to continue some of this in more general terms based on what some people have written.

I really don't think the 60s environment could have been that great of an LSD setting for many average people. It was a turbulent, confusing time.

So let me suggest my own hypothesis about the whole 60s LSD mythos.

I think a lot of it is just childish sort of elitist nostalgic egotistical bullshit. I have met so many people that "saw Jimi at Woodstock" that by even a six degrees connection to another person who actually was at Woodstock, sorry, it was big but not that big. But I also think that people who are not just full of nostalgic bullshit about something they may well have not even been a part of, i.e people who lived it all also have a very logical basis to feel certain they know for sure there was no "good acid" after the 60s. At that time for a lot of people their first LSD experience would have been maybe 200+ mics. That is an intense introduction. They hear or see stuff about kids tripping today, maybe through kids they know, maybe just through what they read about raver kids etc. And it does not compute at all with their experience base that includes a first trip ever at a realistically staggering level of 250-300 mics.

So maybe some people make a perfectly logical albeit incorrect, extrapolation of "Sorry, but I am sure you guys have no idea what real LSD, the stuff I did, is all about." on the basis of their experience which would have been, for the first time, nearly overwhelming.

There is good reason why when I first did LSD a good hit was 100 mics. I think the people behind it realized, hey maybe this 300 mic single dose approach is not a particularly good idea in terms of first time people will generally take a dose as a logical "unit". Let's scale it back so that people that are getting hit with a multiple hundred mic trips are also consciously making a decision to do multiple hits to get there.


Now if anyone is still on the line, let me roll it back into the OP's posts.

Suppose I were to say "Hey, you are trying to convince your friend to do a full hit. I would like to convince you in turn that there is only one first time, you should do (what I am guessing on nowadays amounts) at least 6 and maybe double digits hits in today's units to have that major life changing first time experience."

Would the OP respond, "Look that is a ridiculous argument, I am trying to get the guy to just do a hit. You cannot compare trying to get me to do 8 hits as the same thing. That would just be stupid".

Sure about that? This is how an entire generation was introduced to something no one could possibly be "ready" for. The people behind it all I think most liley wisely realized, hey this is not a sound decision for us to basically make for anyone.

It was also how I introduced myself to an experience I could not have possibly ever been ready for. In retrospect I would not do it any other way. But there is a key difference - it was something I chose entirely on my own accord.

I would not try to persuade you that you should just go for a few hundred mics. It has absolutely nothing to do with "because I am sure your balls are not nearly as big as mine" if that is what you are thinking. It has everything to do with making your own decisions for yourself. If you decide to make the same decision on your own, you can't begin to comprehend what happens next but you should be "ready" for it nonetheless.

So it is really in fact the same thing. If your buddy makes the decision, he also may not be prepared for a full hit of maybe at best 60+ mics. But if it is his choice, he is in fact "ready".

LSD can be one of the most profound and positive experiences this or any other life can ever offer. If and when you are ready for that. This whole group idea, and your desire to include a reluctant participant, I am sorry but I see it as misguided. If and when your friend decides, he is ready. But then and only then.

 

[Shambles]

Excellent post. Have nothing to add at all cos that really does cover everything I would say and then some - only with far less made-up words and tortuous punctuation to wade through than you get with me :D

 

[naginnudej]

I would also like to point out the 'newness' of LSD and how it could have impacted people's trips.

Today, before anyone tries LSD or any other drug for that matter they are bombarded by anti-drug campaigns and whatnot. Perhaps earlier LSD adopters were more objective and they experienced the drug differently.

Just a thought.

 

[PLUR2000]

Modern LSD "hits" usually have ~100 mcgs per dose (unless you got liquid or something like that)... My uncle, when he was alive was taking Owsley's Sunshine Acid in 1968-1976 or so and it was once assumed to be ~350mcg/hit -> ~450mcg/hit. He described trips that no matter how many hits I have done at once (except some window pane I had a few years back) can't even compare in visuals and "psyche/meta-programming" power... it was in fact the best ever though. lol. I suppose if you do enough (10 hits of 100 micro-gram doses) it could be like 2 of them crazy ol school doses.

I did get close on DPT, before prohibition took it away :-(
, but PHIKAL isn't TIHKAL. lol

I guess sunshine could have been ALD-50 not LSD-25. I think it would have degraded to LSD quickly anyway, but if it was not ALD and WAS LSD, then yeah acid is acid... but our doses are what my uncle called "disco doses" (~1/4 hits of old school acid used to "beef up pot") wow, those were different times.

PLUR IN 09!

 

[PLUR2000]

I would like to continue some of this in more general terms based on what some people have written.

I really don't think the 60s environment could have been that great of an LSD setting for many average people. It was a turbulent, confusing time.

So let me suggest my own hypothesis about the whole 60s LSD mythos.

I think a lot of it is just childish sort of elitist nostalgic egotistical bullshit. I have met so many people that "saw Jimi at Woodstock" that by even a six degrees connection to another person who actually was at Woodstock, sorry, it was big but not that big. But I also think that people who are not just full of nostalgic bullshit about something they may well have not even been a part of, i.e people who lived it all also have a very logical basis to feel certain they know for sure there was no "good acid" after the 60s. At that time for a lot of people their first LSD experience would have been maybe 200+ mics. That is an intense introduction. They hear or see stuff about kids tripping today, maybe through kids they know, maybe just through what they read about raver kids etc. And it does not compute at all with their experience base that includes a first trip ever at a realistically staggering level of 250-300 mics.

So maybe some people make a perfectly logical albeit incorrect, extrapolation of "Sorry, but I am sure you guys have no idea what real LSD, the stuff I did, is all about." on the basis of their experience which would have been, for the first time, nearly overwhelming.

There is good reason why when I first did LSD a good hit was 100 mics. I think the people behind it realized, hey maybe this 300 mic single dose approach is not a particularly good idea in terms of first time people will generally take a dose as a logical "unit". Let's scale it back so that people that are getting hit with a multiple hundred mic trips are also consciously making a decision to do multiple hits to get there.


Now if anyone is still on the line, let me roll it back into the OP's posts.

Suppose I were to say "Hey, you are trying to convince your friend to do a full hit. I would like to convince you in turn that there is only one first time, you should do (what I am guessing on nowadays amounts) at least 6 and maybe double digits hits in today's units to have that major life changing first time experience."

Would the OP respond, "Look that is a ridiculous argument, I am trying to get the guy to just do a hit. You cannot compare trying to get me to do 8 hits as the same thing. That would just be stupid".

Sure about that? This is how an entire generation was introduced to something no one could possibly be "ready" for. The people behind it all I think most liley wisely realized, hey this is not a sound decision for us to basically make for anyone.

It was also how I introduced myself to an experience I could not have possibly ever been ready for. In retrospect I would not do it any other way. But there is a key difference - it was something I chose entirely on my own accord.

I would not try to persuade you that you should just go for a few hundred mics. It has absolutely nothing to do with "because I am sure your balls are not nearly as big as mine" if that is what you are thinking. It has everything to do with making your own decisions for yourself. If you decide to make the same decision on your own, you can't begin to comprehend what happens next but you should be "ready" for it nonetheless.

So it is really in fact the same thing. If your buddy makes the decision, he also may not be prepared for a full hit of maybe at best 60+ mics. But if it is his choice, he is in fact "ready".

LSD can be one of the most profound and positive experiences this or any other life can ever offer. If and when you are ready for that. This whole group idea, and your desire to include a reluctant participant, I am sorry but I see it as misguided. If and when your friend decides, he is ready. But then and only then.

You nailed that! I wrote that long post (down the page) and you said almost the same thing... my uncle told me many stories about the late 60's early - mid 70's and the POTENT ACID!!! in So-Cal and the Bay Area (Owsley's sunshine). Wish I could have tried that once or so ... but times they are a changin'

 

[Shambles]

Pfft. Owsley - shit chemist

The acid from the Operation Julie raids just up the road from me (although well before my time ) recovered the purest LSD ever seen, from memory. Sandoz checked it and said it was purer than they ever managed and was the purest LSD ever discovered, I believe. My memory is a bit iffy but even if it's a bit off and I'm thinking of something else there's definitely some competition for "best acid ever" over here. Beens some legendarily good chemists over her too

The stuff from the early 90s was jaw-dropping - 300ug of superclean-feeling acid for 50p a pop wasn't exactly rare. Was also the first acid I had so I guess some of the reason the 60s acid is so legendary may have come into play. Have had acid recently that's just as good but nothing close to as potent outside of a few custom batches I've sampled.

 

[jambi666]

first... STFU.

Who says I haven't researched it?? I have researched lsd a lot. Ok I have went on erowid and looked up a lot of it. I just had never heard that about if it was any more potent than in the 60's. I know what to expect from a trip and I actually do know a lot more than most people that want to try it. I learn about new drugs for fun. I think it's interesting.

So before you try saying that I know nothing about it, think again. And also, I'm not pressuring him. I just want to convince him to do it cuz it would be cool if we would all do it together. I don't see anything wrong with that and it's not like it's going to hurt him. Lsd won't have any long term side effects. So just be quiet.

First, you are really setting yourself up as a mature educated person by telling me to "stfu" for trying to help your friend out. Your friend is obviously unfomfortable with the idea of consuming this substance and is using the "potency" factor as an excuse to get himself away from your silly little "plan."

Trying to convince someone to consume a psycadelic substance (or any substance for that matter) because it would be "cool" or anything like that is just absurd. In reality, it does not matter if all of your friends have your first trip together. It wont be such a "cool" experience if your friend has a terrible time and wishes he had waited until he was ready, and had not given in to your little peer pressure scheme. Your friend should be able to try something new for the first time at his own pace, and pushing that could ruin the psycadelic experience for him. And nobody wants that, as the psycadelic experience is a beautiful thing.

Secondly, believe it or not you arent the first person in the world to look up the effects of lsd on "erowid" before consuming the substance. good for you, you deserve a medal.

In reality, no amount of literature, "internet videos" or stories from experienced people can fully prepare you for a true lsd experience. The only thing that can show you this is to experience it yourself, which you have not done, therefore you know nothing (at least nothing that gives you the right to be convincing someone to try to do the drug for the first time).

If you do not see anything wrong with someone who has no experience in something convincing somone else to try the substance for the first time against their (obvious) best wishes because it would be "cool" or "fun", then i sincerely suggest you take a long look at why you are using psycadelic substances in the first place and reevaluate your usage until you are mature enough to handle them.
It would be like me trying to convince an unwilling person to consume "some crazy research chemical which i have no experience in (other than literature)" because it would be cool if we all did it together.

I myself was peer pressured into trying this substance for the first time (like im sure many of us were) and although it was a life changing expreience (fully positive), when i look back on it, i consider myself lucky that it opened my mind to the psycadelic experience rather than closing it forever.

Thirdly, to say that there are "no long term" effects of lsd, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about and should probably do some more research. Although i strongly believe that lsd is one of the safest substances if used responsibly, i know more than a handful of people who are experiencing some severe long-term effects from abuse of this substance.

So to conclude my rant, be safe, that is all i was trying to get across before (this is a harm reduction site afterall). The pscadelic experience is a beautiful thing and we wouldnt want it to be ruined for anyone.

My apologies for possibly coming off a little harsh, but it really bothers me when someone tells me to "stfu" for trying to help them out

 

[realm]

I read for years on Erowid and here before my first dose. I had also taken ounces upon ounces of high dose and low dose mushrooms trips.

I had a massive wig out and a terrible trip.


LSD is still my favorite drug because of the way I approached it and viewed the experience however.


Your friend may just not be ready. Don't pressure him.

 

[its.euphoric]

jambi you didn't even spell psychedelic right... lol. And I don't really feel like replying to your whole thread cuz most of it was just rambling on.

And I really don't see what's wrong with convincing someone to try something new if it can have a positive result... I mean of course if he decides to do it then it will be all his choice. It's not like we're going to slip it in his food or something.

I remember when I first tried alcohol. At first I didn't want to do it and thought it was "bad". It was my decision fully to do it. Even though I was convinced, it was my choice entirely.
but after I was very happy that I did it. It changed the way I viewed drugs and people who did them. I just realized what exactly everyone that I saw was experiencing and well.. yeah it was a great thing.

Now I'm not saying that lsd is similar to alcohol but I'm just saying that I don't think there's anything wrong with convincing someone to do something that can be beneficial.
It still is there choice to do it or not.

 

[Shambles]

It is his choice ultimately but peer pressure can be extremely hard to resist. If your friend is that nervous of using LSD at the moment there's a fair chance he'll have a bad trip and if his trip turns sour it will almost inevitably mean that the rest of you will "catch it" from him and you'll all have a shitty experience. Just take the acid with those that wish to and tell him all about it afterwards. If he knows you guys all had an amazing time his concerns may well dissipate and he'll maybe want to join in next time. Would be a far better way of "convincing" him to dose, in my opinion.

 

[Eldaren]

jambi you didn't even spell psychedelic right... lol. And I don't really feel like replying to your whole thread cuz most of it was just rambling on.

And I really don't see what's wrong with convincing someone to try something new if it can have a positive result... I mean of course if he decides to do it then it will be all his choice. It's not like we're going to slip it in his food or something.

I remember when I first tried alcohol. At first I didn't want to do it and thought it was "bad". It was my decision fully to do it. Even though I was convinced, it was my choice entirely.
but after I was very happy that I did it. It changed the way I viewed drugs and people who did them. I just realized what exactly everyone that I saw was experiencing and well.. yeah it was a great thing.

Now I'm not saying that lsd is similar to alcohol but I'm just saying that I don't think there's anything wrong with convincing someone to do something that can be beneficial.
It still is there choice to do it or not.

It wont be positive if you pressure him into it. After he drops he will worry, even if he doesn't let on. As his trip progresses, he will most likely get more worried, and that will get out of proportion. Because he has no experience with psychedelics, that negative may drive him away from them forever. Your best bet is to take his no as a no, he can watch you guys do it or whatever, its not like people on acid and people who aren't cant interact. Leave him be, let him say yes in his own time.

 

[its.euphoric]

well I mean he knows what to expect from a trip.
And I really doubt he would freak out on it. And he wouldn't take it if he was nervous about it. That would be stupid. I know he wouldn't just do it cuz we're pressuring him. He just is afraid of what might happen and it lasting so long. I highly doubt he would have a bad trip. Just cuz... he's not that type of person to be like... oh my oh my gosh what is happening!!??

I don't know if that makes sense, but like I can think of certain people that would freak out over something like a trip and then it go bad.

 

[Shambles]

Everybody - even those who have used high doses of a variety of psychedelics for many years - can freak out on even a low dose of acid. Nobody is exempt from that rule. The situation you describe sounds like a bad trip just waiting to happen. Do not underestimate the power of LSD cos it will kick your arse like you wouldn't believe. Tripping is not all about seeing pretty colours and giggling - it has profound effects mentally, emotionally and spiritually.

 

[its.euphoric]

- it has profound effects mentally, emotionally and spiritually.

i know that's mainly why I want to do it. And.. well idk I know it can happen, but Idk I don't think it would.
but whatever. You have to take chances in life

 

[Eldaren]

well I mean he knows what to expect from a trip.
And I really doubt he would freak out on it. And he wouldn't take it if he was nervous about it. That would be stupid. I know he wouldn't just do it cuz we're pressuring him. He just is afraid of what might happen and it lasting so long. I highly doubt he would have a bad trip. Just cuz... he's not that type of person to be like... oh my oh my gosh what is happening!!??

I don't know if that makes sense, but like I can think of certain people that would freak out over something like a trip and then it go bad.

Thats one of the least reassuring posts I've ever read. It would help if you had at least taken LSD before.

 

[nopipesdfw]

i know that's mainly why I want to do it. And.. well idk I know it can happen, but Idk I don't think it would.
but whatever. You have to take chances in life

Don't try to influence your friends chances like you obviously are.

A guy who hasn't done LSD just knows that his friend who also hasn't done LSD isn't going to freak out even though he has objections against LSD...

And he wouldn't take it if he was nervous about it. That would be stupid.

He might as long as you keep your head up his ass.

I know he wouldn't just do it cuz we're pressuring him.

Then quit wasting your time pressuring your friend to take an intense psychedelic that he doesn't want to. And quit ignoring some really important advice from the psychonauts here just to defend yourself with these crazy arguments. (I saw this thread on Friday when I was on 2C-I and died laughing at something I think you said. Let me dig it up.)

I'm not pressuring him. I just want to convince him to do it

8)

I don't know your age and don't care, but I think I have a pretty good guess.