MXE...meet OXA.

[Feretile]

Dutch vendors are very creative. Does anybody else remember 'Explosion' room odorizer? It was a plastic bottle with about 100mL of vanilla scented liquid in it (so it really did make your room smell like ice-cream); BUT each bottle also contained 150mg of methylaone (bk-MDMA aka MDMC). I read than in some smart shops it cost >€50. I knew what is was on day 1 because friends who worked in Kokopelli told me.... but they sold it for TEN YEARS!!!!!

I do not think bk-MDMA was controlled when Explosion was first released and being a ketone, I guess it DID add to the smell.... so somewhere (Belgium I guess) a legitimate business was producing hundreds of Kgs of bk-MDMA and they had a proper contract and d drug is only a drug if it's used as a drug so a room odorizer is OK.

http://isomerdesign.com/PiHKAL/read.php?domain=pk&id=110 I note that Shulgin doesn'r even begin with 3,4-MD benzaldehyde (which is a controlled precursor. It's almost like someone very clever worked out the 'path of least resistance' and made a LOT of cash. Not a typical criminal. Not a gangster, not a hard man, a businessman.

So, with that in mind, I have a question. If you could order a chemical off the net. A chemical that if you swallowed did not harm you.... but just did nothing, well, who would buy it? Now, how about a chemical that you dissolve in 1L of water and BOIL for 15 minutes. That boiling breaks a bond to convert a totally inactive drug into an active drug. So you can possess it legally (so checking your mail will not help the DEA). All you have to do is to make sure that yiu keep the solution somewhere safe OR each unit of chemical = 1 dose?

I have been thinking about this for a while. I didn't consider N-formyl or N-acetic PEAs so MDMA, mescaline, 2CB, DOB, 2CT7..... virtually ALL of tje stuff in Pihkal. How much would people pay if they could just go into a shop and buy it or order it in total safety?

I am assuming that the police would give the vendor a LOT of static so I think their would need to be a group of people who actually FILL the orders.... but just 2-3 guys who know whose making it and where..... and how to import it. Just and idea.

 

[blueberries]

Just to chime in again; OXA similarly to 4-MeO-PCP vs. 3-MeO-PCP (MXE) should be more relaxing and a mild sedative as a result of higher NMDA antagonism and /some/ opioidergic activity (but the NMDA should protect from addiction as MXE did with the fentalogues before the ban).

So the happy, happy, joy, joy MXE feeling would be morelike an opioidergic feeling, so more relaxing, kind of like Ketamine for a few hours mixed with a touch of MXE (of course depending on dose, I reckon nootropic doses would be around 5-15mg without inflicting too much sedation). [EDIT: Based purely on 4-MeO-PCP but seems I'm very wrong and looks much morelike MXE than I had thought]

IMO it's the next big RC to come to town...now where are those Chinese?!

I'll link 'em don't worry!

EDIT: Seems I didn't read my own post before posting this!! Anyway yeah it looks wonderful right? Plus it's a 3'-OxO-4-MeO so it shouldn't step on too many toes.

IMO this will be MXE 2.0

EDIT2: Plus with the 3-Oxo I'm guessing from fentalogues and Pethidine analogues that the closer to the 4-position on the phenyl ring the higher the potency. Though it is an Oxo bond instead of a phenethyl bond so who knows; I really think someone should look into it though.

EDIT3: Also due to it being at the 4-position relative to the PCP analogues there should be much, much less potential for psychosis type affects in those prone to it, certainly less than MXE anyway and that was always pretty damn stable IMO.

3-MeO-PCP was far closer to PCP itself than 4-MeO indicating less of a psychosis inducing affect with the OXA than MXE and certainly less than either 3/4-MeO-PCP/PCP itself.
So not only is it a higher dose (indicating safety profile increase), but less of a cause for psychosis.

PS: I'm very willing to guinea pig if someone gets it going!

 

[G_Chem]

The 1,2-diarylamines is a class worthy of more exploration. It was a great disappointment that diphenidine AKAHello to you all.
During the 1990 & early 2000s I was a researcher for a team of medicinal chemists. My job entailed finding all of the appropriate papers & patents. If another team was doing work that could be of use, I would contact said team directly. I am old enough to remember ChemOffice being introduced (and how amazing it was). Then Lipinski's rules of five (RO5) was formally recognised and Crossfire (the precursor of Reaxys) was brought in (and was even more amazing. Anybody who is old enough to remember 'Chemical Abstracts' (CVAS) will understand what I mean.

Chemical Abstracts Service Source Index, 1907-2004 Cumulative -4 Volumes Complete: Very Good (2005) | A Squared Books (Don Dewhirst)

The Chemical Abstracts Service - American Chemical Society - 2005 - Condition: Very Good - 2005; 4 volume set complete; hard cover of maroon cloth; no dust jackets; quite clean inside and out; each volume approx 1600 pages; 4to, 9 3/4" - 12" Tall; These 4 books are large and heavy - Additional...

www.abebooks.co.uk

Part of my work was in translating papers & patents into English or Dutch. I used a number of utilities & several technical dictionaries and we employed people on a per-project basis to check said translation. I do not claim that the translations were great BUT the external translator would ensure that the KEY elements of papers & patents were translated perfectly. Overall it saved us a lot of money.

From 2003 until 2011 I helped Linnell Publications (a HR agency) and wrote a number of articles that were published in various broadsheet newspapers. They were generally concerning new drugs-of-abuse were becoming increasingly popular. While doctors were enamoured of Ultram (tramadol) whereas I recognised that it's SNRI dose-response curve meant that it was much more toxic than an equipotent dose of codeine, for example. I also noted that out that Lyrica (pregabalin) produced physical dependence in animal models and that ALL GABA genic PAMs similarly produced physical dependence but animal models have little value in testing psychological addiction. The FIRST experiment to test addictions was as recent as 2013 (The Development of a Preference for Cocaine over Food Identifies Individual Rats with Addiction-Like Behaviors -https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0079465) and this kind of testing is NOT required to obtain a licence to market a new drug.

From 2012 until 2014 I helped to develop a large number of intermediate building blocks for commercial sales. After all, it's often cheaper to spent $600/g of a material than to go through the extra 6 steps in it's synthesis. We kept a close track on what was sold and ensured that we always had a ready supply. The number of building blocks stretched to over 27000 compounds. I hasten to add that the 27 full-time staff that the company.

We discovered that the MOST profitable way to run such a service is to send the potential NDA (sometimes they sent their own NDA - a belt & braces approach. That done, we would OFTEN find a much more efficient synthetic pathway and tell the customer. We would not disclose the route but we had 1 chemist whose job it was to perform the syntheses aiming at a yield of 5 grams. He kept copious lab-notes. What we WOULD do is to offer either to make the chemical ourselves If a customer needed more than the 1Kg scale our lab & labware limited us to, we would always pass on the customer to The Mole Chemical Corporation which is run by a man we call 'The Mad Major'. He was in the British army, specifically the RAOC & was an ATO. Put simply, it was a bomb disposal expert. He's also a wonderful chap.

Mole Chemical Corporation Product Catalog_Page 4_Chemicalbook

m.chemicalbook.com

His ads are very, very low key but just as an example, he sells 100-200 Kg of 2-phenylnitropropene (CAS 705-60-2/SMILESO=N(=O)C(\C)=C/c1ccccc1) every week. It's quite legal BUT the only commercial use of this chemical is in the production of Adderal and generic IR dexamphetamine,

If I may OT a little more, I am truly shocked by the fact that a whole generation of 'cooks' have been taught the (pseudo)ephedrine ---> (S) methamphetamine rpute. The US government seems to have been surprisingly efficient in making (pseudo)ephedrine too costly, too inconvenient and too complicated to acquire as a precursor and so phenyl-2-propanone (P2P) has become the most common route. While I am impressed by the DEAs efforts, I see that L-PAC* is very cheap (produced at scale in bioreactors). OK, so it's 1 extra step BUT the price is so low, I cannot imagine it not becoming the standard synthetic pathway. There are several (pseudo)ephedrine related chemicals that can be made from L-PAC so the people actually providing these materials are not breaking any national or international laws.

Lastly, I have a feeling that L-PAC can, in a single step, produce 4-MAR. I haven't found a route yet but I have noted a rule-of-thumb which states that a 'cook' can only make a product that uses a maximum of 2 steps & 2 workups. A decent chemist can reliably produce a compound that requires 4 steps and 4 workups assuming that the yield of eacvh step is high. After all, if each step has a yield of 50%, four of them will only produce an overall yield of 6.25%. Well, OK, I suppose sociopaths who are prepared to make p-F OHMefentanyl and possess chiral precursors would still profit given that they are able to make 3R,4S,βS-p-F-ohmefentanyl which is ovcer 30,000 x more potent than morphine and even if the 1Kg (rounding up here) only returns 62g of product, that's still 930Kg of uncut (heroin).

I AM fascinated by the science behind psychoactivce drugs but I have witnessed the harm they can cause - splitting up families, the breakdown of relationships, crime, overdoses and infection by blood-borne diseases. More recently I've had 3 friends die as the direct result of drug consumption and even worse, my friends Shelby (AKA Paupiere de Quincy AKA Dequincey Jynxie & Brian. They were both talented artists making a decent livcing. Unbeknownst to them, the house they rented had previously been occupied by a mid-level drug dealer. One night someone broke in seeking a 'stash'. On failing to find one and not wishing for their to be witnesses, Paupie & Brian were bound head & foot, tortured and murdered by a single shot to the back of the neck.

So I have experience of being surrounded by wonderful and talented medicinal chemists AND to have seen the other side of the coin where life is cheap.

I'm sorry this ended up so long. I'm still getting over loosing Shelby.

Glad to have you around man

-GC

 

[Feretile]

Just to chime in again; OXA similarly to 4-MeO-PCP vs. 3-MeO-PCP (MXE) should be more relaxing and a mild sedative as a result of higher NMDA antagonism and /some/ opioidergic activity (but the NMDA should protect from addiction as MXE did with the fentalogues before the ban).

So the happy, happy, joy, joy MXE feeling would be morelike an opioidergic feeling, so more relaxing, kind of like Ketamine for a few hours mixed with a touch of MXE (of course depending on dose, I reckon nootropic doses would be around 5-15mg without inflicting too much sedation). [EDIT: Based purely on 4-MeO-PCP but seems I'm very wrong and looks much morelike MXE than I had thought]

IMO it's the next big RC to come to town...now where are those Chinese?!

I'll link 'em don't worry!

EDIT: Seems I didn't read my own post before posting this!! Anyway yeah it looks wonderful right? Plus it's a 3'-OxO-4-MeO so it shouldn't step on too many toes.

IMO this will be MXE 2.0

EDIT2: Plus with the 3-Oxo I'm guessing from fentalogues and Pethidine analogues that the closer to the 4-position on the phenyl ring the higher the potency. Though it is an Oxo bond instead of a phenethyl bond so who knows; I really think someone should look into it though.

EDIT3: Also due to it being at the 4-position relative to the PCP analogues there should be much, much less potential for psychosis type affects in those prone to it, certainly less than MXE anyway and that was always pretty damn stable IMO.

3-MeO-PCP was far closer to PCP itself than 4-MeO indicating less of a psychosis inducing affect with the OXA than MXE and certainly less than either 3/4-MeO-PCP/PCP itself.
So not only is it a higher dose (indicating safety profile increase), but less of a cause for psychosis.

PS: I'm very willing to guinea pig if someone gets it going!

The 3-MeO is demethylated in the body to produce the 3-OH which increases opioid activity. Consider ketobemidone. In such cases, the amine substitution becomes important. Most active opioids have a tertiary amine moiety BUT there are some in which a secondary amine is the active. Tilidine (or rather nortilidine) is a good example. The 3-OH ACA are included so N-methyl & N-ethyl are the most active opioids.
DRI activity seems to be a common factor within the ACA class. PCP is a potent DRI and BTPC, BTPCy & GK-189 are purely DRIs. There is a very good paper on this subject:
"3H)N-1-(2Benzo(b)Thiophenyl)Cyclohexy) Piperidine (3HBTCP): A New Phencyclidine Analog Selective For The Dopamine Uptake Complex', & Eur. J.
Pharmacol. 1988, 148(3), 427-36

and of course US Patent 5248686

If you have ChemOffice, try overlaying BTPC with various DRIs (as listed in Wiki).

 

[Feretile]

pynazolam hosted at ImgBB

Image pynazolam hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Pynazolam - dose 5-10mg. As euphoric as methaqualone.

Of course, good look to anybody who intends to make it. It took us 22 attempts. I guess that is why we succeeded, we didn't mind WORK.

 

[Feretile]

I am surprised that clofenciclan (and analogues) have not turned up. It's effects are very similar to cocaine although it's duration is somewhat longer.

Technically it's an arylcycvlohexylamine like MXE.

I'm fairly sure that it can be made in a single step from commercially available precursors and since it does not chemically resemble anything controlled, it should be easy to have it made in China and imported as 'cubic cow decompression grease' or some equally unlikely product.

I was surprised to discover that while Chinese RC manufacturers will make ANYTHING not controlled under their local laws and yet NO Indian companies offer such servicves.

Of course, for complex chemistry, use a European or Australian company and do not forget their are still other massive regions of the world who are KEEN to take money out of the pockets of the Chinese companies. Some places you would presume are not of use JUST because their are trade embargos. Such nations are desperate for $,£ & € and in those nations, their own governments will HELP to cover up exports. Think about it. - North Korea wants trade (I use NK just as an example).

 

[blueberries]

Holy shit I forgot about clofencinclan, an allyl instead of the chloro should substitute it. Or methfluoro?
Anyway yeah, it's a really interesting compound, then again look at Beno! Pure (N)DRI...basically! Just sweep the NMDA under the rug!

 

[plumbus-nine]

I am surprised that clofenciclan (and analogues) have not turned up. It's effects are very similar to cocaine although it's duration is somewhat longer.

Oh, nice compound indeed, never heard about before - and a dopamine releasing agent, can you extrapolate from that whether MXE & Co. are actually serotonin / dopamine releasers? At least it feels like they are. Theres BTPC which is a dopaminergic as well and has been sold but appears to be toxic following the little handful of reports I found. Won't touch that but interested in clofenciclan ... still, a balanced SDRA & NMDA antagonist would be nice.

 

[Feretile]

The QSAR of clofenciclan homologues is quite interesting. (R) MXE is a DAT inhibitor.

 

[izo]

Does anybody else remember 'Explosion' room odorizer?

Yes absolutely. But it was around 5ml of green vanilla smelling liquid which contained around 240mg of methylone. The netherlands added it to the lists of medicines shortly thereafter and so prevented its distribution.

Is it right that putting an oxo on the 4 of the cyclohexane ring greatly amplifies mu agonism with the ach‘s? I think daniel lednicer made such a compound.

 

[fugme]

pynazolam hosted at ImgBB

Image pynazolam hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Pynazolam - dose 5-10mg. As euphoric as methaqualone.

Of course, good look to anybody who intends to make it. It took us 22 attempts. I guess that is why we succeeded, we didn't mind WORK.

JFC would i love to try that. Finally something interesting in the RC scene. Considering you (and your company?) are so good at this, how hard would it be to set up a subsidiary which sells and distributes these amazing chemicals you're describing. I'm sure they'd be more expensive than whatever chinese labs make, but there are plenty of drug connoisseurs who would pay the extra price for novel and exquisite drugs, pushing the frontiers instead of making 100 different (but same) cathinones, arylcyclohexylamines, amphetamines and so on and on and on...

 

[Feretile]

The QSAR of clofenciclan homologues is quite interesting. (R) MXE is a DAT inhibitor.

BTW - 3-MeO IS methoxetine, is it not? The 4-MeO has also been characterised. It's not of particular interest. Lots of people have delivered 2-(pseudo)helo-5-MeO homologues that are now controlled. Surely the simplest thing to do is go back through the series with the cyclohexane replaces with a 4-thiane? Their is a stack of papers on the subject. The Shape of the receptor cleft has been elucidated.

JFC would i love to try that. Finally something interesting in the RC scene. Considering you (and your company?) are so good at this, how hard would it be to set up a subsidiary which sells and distributes these amazing chemicals you're describing. I'm sure they'd be more expensive than whatever chinese labs make, but there are plenty of drug connoisseurs who would pay the extra price for novel and exquisite drugs, pushing the frontiers instead of making 100 different (but same) cathinones, arylcyclohexylamines, amphetamines and so on and on and on...

The problem is that one has to go RIGHT back to (2-amino-5-nitrophenyl)(pyridin-2-yl)methanone. That's 5 steps. It is my opinion that is valuable to medicine. It's a rapid-acting antidepressant with anxiolytic properties. It would only recommend it's use in an inpatient setting but it really holds the possibility of saving lives.

Someone forward thinking should offer this compound with an 8-boronic acid moiety because that would allow Click chemistry and so all of the homologues could be explored. Too much money, that is the problem (as always)..

The Shulgin figure of benzos is called Professor James Cook, of all things. https://uwm.edu/drug-discovery/people/cook-james/ He has done amazing work. It's too bad for him and for Professor David Nutt that neither of them has yet figured out a decent alcohol mimic not because the appropriate GABA receptor subtypes have not been identified but because their is no single compound that will bind at them all and still be selective JUST to them.

It's easy to do with 3 compounds, tricky but possible with 2 compounds.... and they have wasted a decade and not found a 1 compound solution... and they cannot patent the 2-compoud solution.

 

[blueberries]

BTW - 3-MeO IS methoxetine, is it not? The 4-MeO has also been characterised. It's not of particular interest. Lots of people have delivered 2-(pseudo)helo-5-MeO homologues that are now controlled.

[EDIT] I'm an idiot and read it wrong! Yes, MXE is 3-MeO.

From what I got from 4-MeO was a 4-5 hour long medium dose Ketamine experience, no psychosis, not too much euphoria either though, just a flat, down the middle dissociative.
And that's what I wanted.
Something non-fancy, boring, straight down the line basic dissociation.

Then after that we figure that out if we can start adding 3-MeOs, 2-Cls, 3-FOs, 3-HOs, 3,5-methylenedioxys, 3,4,5-Trimethoxys, 2,5-Dimethoxy-4-Bromos etc. etc...
Like a real DIHKAL would explode into but with a fair few more analogues!

 

[DeucerPro]

So...I found this analogue of MXE that's legal and basically much better on paper.





I'm not sure what to do with it so I'm giving it to you guys to sort out. My life went down the drain when MXE was globalbanned so if someone could do something with it I'd be the happiest boy in the world

Omfg PLEASE Please please please please please!!! Keep me in the loop I want it I want it bad! You might make the rest of my life fantastic!! Now I just heard my mind say analog to methexotamine assuming this is in between ketamine and MXE??

 

[DeucerPro]

I can actually die a happy person… I’m so fng serious. so they say that drugs are like Pandora‘s box usually negatively yet once I tried MXE it changed my life FOR THE EXTREME positive. man it it’s it’s a gift from God I swear it’s a gift from God I cannot call it even a drug! It’s all I’ve ever wanted all I ever needed it does so much especially for denial and honesty and happiness and contentment… And I could say so much more but where when how now please!!

 

[izo]

I found mxe to good but nowhere as good as ketamine which is the best ach I know of.

 

[plumbus-nine]

I found mxe to good but nowhere as good as ketamine which is the best ach I know of.

For me MXE brought me indeed as others describe some of the most happy times I had, before I either developed tolerance and/or the available products degraded. K on the other hand has a heavy comedown after sustained binges which MXE or DCK don't have, and while good K is really pretty euphoric, it's not as cuddly fluffy as MXE was. First time MXE I thought "That'll be how opium must be...(dreaming away)". Later I should meet pharma morphine and boy was I wrong, the morphine never lived up to the bar set by MXE. By far not.

Maybe everybody loves that ACH/disso best which the first one was? For me that would be DXM and then MXE. So I experienced MXE with little tolerance, while I would rate it less if I had already high tolerance.

I'd love to have access to analogues, but they are prohibitively expensive and I don't have real chemistry knowledge

 

[izo]

Dck gave me a good hangover after 2x redosing it (eG 50,20,20mg), but I think this the case for me with all ach‘s I can think of. More than 1 redoes is not good for me.
Btw I found mxe to be somewhat similar to dxm when dosed orally, which I tried once. Nasally the ach character is more predominant.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Dck gave me a good hangover after 3x redosing it (eG 50,20,20mg), but I think this the case for me with all ach‘s I can think of. More than 1 redoes is not good for me.
Btw I found mxe to be somewhat similar to dxm when dosed orally, which I tried once. Nasally the ach character is more predominant.

Interesting, I did MXE mostly sublingual (began to love even the taste) and only switched to nasal after I got used to drugs over that route, to this time I will also already have had tolerance. Sublingual was very dreamy, as I wrote above and as many speculated, thought that it had opioid activity but afaik this couldn't be confirmed but I'd bet for beta-endorphin and/or heavy oxytocin activity. DCK wasn't too unsimilar at first but more stimulating, and addictive. The nasal route will feed addiction I feel.

DCK gives me adrenergic rebound, when I don't take a beta blocker my pulse raises to 120+ but that's it. Somehow did the hangover fade with tolerance. Early MXE experiences left me weird on the following day, this disappeared completely and is replaced by cravings. Oral DCK (put in capsules for easy use outside) was a failure, it requires much more substance for less effects.

 

[blueberries]

MXE beat /every/ opioid/ I've tried so far (80+) and the only thing that /ever/ beat MXE was MXM.