• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

MXE...meet OXA.

blueberries

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
339
So...I found this analogue of MXE that's legal and basically much better on paper.





I'm not sure what to do with it so I'm giving it to you guys to sort out. My life went down the drain when MXE was globalbanned so if someone could do something with it I'd be the happiest boy in the world!
 
Thank you for sharing. Gonna look into this, could be interesting.
 
My life went down the drain when MXE was globalbanned so if someone could do something with it I'd be the happiest boy in the world!
Same here, got stuck and downwards on DCK which felt promising (as in: euphoric, which isn't the best mark to rate antidepressant qualities; turned out to be mania instead) but somehow was more addictive and much less 'healing' than MXE was. DMXE recently reminded me a bit of the original but its prohibitively expensive in most shops and this will be expensive too if it makes its way and they find an alternative after NL goes blanketban-'offline'. I guess because for the average I-wanna-get-fucked-up any or most of the arylcyclahexylamines do the job. With MXE I had no probs using on just isolated days, of course the temptation is often there but I found with memantine an aid to stop that. With DCK this didn't work.
 
How does one use these type of drugs 2 to benefit from antidepressant qualities?
 
How does one use these type of drugs 2 to benefit from antidepressant qualities?
I suggest doing heavy research before doing this, but I'll explain how I would do it (and what I believe roughly resemble the procedures that most clinics use, minus the IV, therapist, and hundreds of dollars per session cost.)
While RCs can be unpredictable with unknown potential health risks and as a result most use ketamine for this, you could theoretically get good results with any of the popular dissos that do not have extreme risks of mania. So that excludes PCP, 3-MeO-PCP/PCE, 3-HO-PCP/PCE, and their analogues. The substances you probably can use safely include DMXE, MXE, Ketamine, Ketamine analogues, and O-PCE. You would take a moderate dose (generally, intranasally) and slowly increase the duration between each one. For example, you might start with 6-8 uses spread somewhat evenly apart (1.5-2 times a week) in the 1st month, 4 (weekly) in the 2nd, 3 in the 3rd, etcetera. Because dissociatives are quite dangerous long term, you do not want to the frequency, dosage, or use-term to even be anything resembling excess.

As with any psychedelics/psychedelic-like compounds: Have each trip in a calm, quiet, neat environment where you won't be disturbed. Meditate and journal about your depression and the problems you are facing in your life prior to ingestion. Put on some nice music (preferably with very few/no vocals or at least no vocals in a language you can understand). Have your pet(s) in the room if you'd like, assuming you have any. Then put away your phone and any distractions, turn off your TV, and just sit down on a couch and be present in the moment. Keep a few problems you want to meditate on during your trip written down in point form on a piece of paper next to you, and try to remember to read through that during your trip. While I am not a frequent disso user, I primarily use them therapeutically and that is how I trip.
 
There's a detailed posting/article about how to use K as an antidepressant, maybe you have better luck than I with the search engine. While I fully agree to that any excess is against a working antidepressant schedule, but if I remember correctly, the recommendation there was to be continuously on a low dose of K until the effects kick in, for a few days, and then use as a booster every few days.
 
Sounds very interesting. What is the chemical achievement one is hoping to achieve in one's brain?

Also can you explain a little if u don't mind about certain dissociatives being "manic". I know a few people have shown "mania" bum I'm not sure how it manifests?

Is it like stimulant psychosis and sleep deprivation?
 
Sounds very interesting. What is the chemical achievement one is hoping to achieve in one's brain?
Not sure whether this is really known yet ... afaik the activation of mTOR stuff is relevant, whatever this means.

Also can you explain a little if u don't mind about certain dissociatives being "manic". I know a few people have shown "mania" bum I'm not sure how it manifests?
Is it like stimulant psychosis and sleep deprivation?
In stim psychosis a prominent feature is paranoia, repetitive and compulsive stuff also one often hears whispered words or full voices. Mania has nothing of that, one feels either great or nothing (doesn't care, because it's so great etc), is in danger of doing dangerous things, nothing one would never do otherwise but with increasingly less precaution as mania level rises, or spending more money than one would with a sober mind and for stuff one would't. There is some compulsion too but qualitatively it's very different. Afaik there are no hallucinations in mania but I might be wrong. The PCP variants are known to be manic but I also got it from excessive use of DCK.
 
Kind of like the manic phase of a bipolar swing. Sounds kind of appealing tbh like god mindset, I'm sure the danger and damage done is also a force to be reckoned with when the mania ends!!
 
Yeah, until I experienced mania myself, I found it to sound appealing at least to somebody who usually tends to a depressive mindset. Hypomania is the good stuff, dissociatives can do that too and one can to some extent learn to handle manic states, at least imo, but time is key, when a manic mindset persists for too long, things go haywire (out of conscious control. Tendency to ignore warning signs because emotions stop to be good vs. bad when everything is good. This can effectively ruin you, materially or socially so. I'm not sure whether I'm right about hypomania leading to full mania or if it's a different state of weird careless-ity because somehow the drive only lasts so and so long but what I know for sure is that I could have avoided quite some bad shit if I had known before, and this usually means witnessing somebody else's bad shit as textbook knowledge doesn't help one here (put aside that quite some people have no textbooks at all because war of drugs and stuff).

The thing is, we need bad emotions to warn us from bad consequences of whatever we do. They can get out of control but to navigate the world with shut off warnings is a sure ticket to mad shit. For this, the dissociative experience itself is more of a god-like (at least as in, detached and painless) state than the mania which sometimes/often results from the former. I'm not sure if and how often dissociatives can trigger real manic episodes or if the manic state is limited to the duration (for me it was, but this was also enough).

Dissociatives basically shift your state of consciousness from the depressive to the manic end. Depending on the structure more or less effectively so and PCP derivates are known to be specially mania inducing but for me DCK was enough even when I'm not bipolar w/o substances and could handle MXE.

Note that I don't damn dissociatives even though I lost a six figure number to being manic-ally careless during extended periods of time and should do so (also had often enough depressive breakdowns when I stopped using; this usually occurred only on the wake up after crashing into sleep from two or three, sometimes four days without). I also developed so-called positive symptoms, for me they were isolated to acoustic hallucinations, listening whispers inside of static noise like a refrigerator or ventilator etc, up to full blown hearing voices but I recovered without antipsychotics, I felt on repeated attempts that different ones (tried next to all of the modern ones) were more harming than helping and some, here risperidone which even pushed me into a psychotic state of mind stands isolated but also the partial agonists were able to intensify the acoustic stuff instead of quietening it. This has, after the mania weaned off, left me quite worried as there seems to be no real medicine against that acoustic stuff. I think it was mainly the sleep deprivation which caused it.

These compounds have also great power and potencial to healing which shouldn't be wasted by banning through reckless use, mine was at least not specially recorded or mentioned in whatever publications (primarily because the docs had no clue about modern drugs, pure luck).
 
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The 1,2-diarylamines is a class worthy of more exploration. It was a great disappointment that diphenidine AKAHello to you all.
During the 1990 & early 2000s I was a researcher for a team of medicinal chemists. My job entailed finding all of the appropriate papers & patents. If another team was doing work that could be of use, I would contact said team directly. I am old enough to remember ChemOffice being introduced (and how amazing it was). Then Lipinski's rules of five (RO5) was formally recognised and Crossfire (the precursor of Reaxys) was brought in (and was even more amazing. Anybody who is old enough to remember 'Chemical Abstracts' (CVAS) will understand what I mean.


Part of my work was in translating papers & patents into English or Dutch. I used a number of utilities & several technical dictionaries and we employed people on a per-project basis to check said translation. I do not claim that the translations were great BUT the external translator would ensure that the KEY elements of papers & patents were translated perfectly. Overall it saved us a lot of money.

From 2003 until 2011 I helped Linnell Publications (a HR agency) and wrote a number of articles that were published in various broadsheet newspapers. They were generally concerning new drugs-of-abuse were becoming increasingly popular. While doctors were enamoured of Ultram (tramadol) whereas I recognised that it's SNRI dose-response curve meant that it was much more toxic than an equipotent dose of codeine, for example. I also noted that out that Lyrica (pregabalin) produced physical dependence in animal models and that ALL GABA genic PAMs similarly produced physical dependence but animal models have little value in testing psychological addiction. The FIRST experiment to test addictions was as recent as 2013 (The Development of a Preference for Cocaine over Food Identifies Individual Rats with Addiction-Like Behaviors -https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0079465) and this kind of testing is NOT required to obtain a licence to market a new drug.

From 2012 until 2014 I helped to develop a large number of intermediate building blocks for commercial sales. After all, it's often cheaper to spent $600/g of a material than to go through the extra 6 steps in it's synthesis. We kept a close track on what was sold and ensured that we always had a ready supply. The number of building blocks stretched to over 27000 compounds. I hasten to add that the 27 full-time staff that the company.

We discovered that the MOST profitable way to run such a service is to send the potential NDA (sometimes they sent their own NDA - a belt & braces approach. That done, we would OFTEN find a much more efficient synthetic pathway and tell the customer. We would not disclose the route but we had 1 chemist whose job it was to perform the syntheses aiming at a yield of 5 grams. He kept copious lab-notes. What we WOULD do is to offer either to make the chemical ourselves If a customer needed more than the 1Kg scale our lab & labware limited us to, we would always pass on the customer to The Mole Chemical Corporation which is run by a man we call 'The Mad Major'. He was in the British army, specifically the RAOC & was an ATO. Put simply, it was a bomb disposal expert. He's also a wonderful chap.


His ads are very, very low key but just as an example, he sells 100-200 Kg of 2-phenylnitropropene (CAS 705-60-2/SMILESO=N(=O)C(\C)=C/c1ccccc1) every week. It's quite legal BUT the only commercial use of this chemical is in the production of Adderal and generic IR dexamphetamine,

If I may OT a little more, I am truly shocked by the fact that a whole generation of 'cooks' have been taught the (pseudo)ephedrine ---> (S) methamphetamine rpute. The US government seems to have been surprisingly efficient in making (pseudo)ephedrine too costly, too inconvenient and too complicated to acquire as a precursor and so phenyl-2-propanone (P2P) has become the most common route. While I am impressed by the DEAs efforts, I see that L-PAC* is very cheap (produced at scale in bioreactors). OK, so it's 1 extra step BUT the price is so low, I cannot imagine it not becoming the standard synthetic pathway. There are several (pseudo)ephedrine related chemicals that can be made from L-PAC so the people actually providing these materials are not breaking any national or international laws.

Lastly, I have a feeling that L-PAC can, in a single step, produce 4-MAR. I haven't found a route yet but I have noted a rule-of-thumb which states that a 'cook' can only make a product that uses a maximum of 2 steps & 2 workups. A decent chemist can reliably produce a compound that requires 4 steps and 4 workups assuming that the yield of eacvh step is high. After all, if each step has a yield of 50%, four of them will only produce an overall yield of 6.25%. Well, OK, I suppose sociopaths who are prepared to make p-F OHMefentanyl and possess chiral precursors would still profit given that they are able to make 3R,4S,βS-p-F-ohmefentanyl which is ovcer 30,000 x more potent than morphine and even if the 1Kg (rounding up here) only returns 62g of product, that's still 930Kg of uncut (heroin).

I AM fascinated by the science behind psychoactivce drugs but I have witnessed the harm they can cause - splitting up families, the breakdown of relationships, crime, overdoses and infection by blood-borne diseases. More recently I've had 3 friends die as the direct result of drug consumption and even worse, my friends Shelby (AKA Paupiere de Quincy AKA Dequincey Jynxie & Brian. They were both talented artists making a decent livcing. Unbeknownst to them, the house they rented had previously been occupied by a mid-level drug dealer. One night someone broke in seeking a 'stash'. On failing to find one and not wishing for their to be witnesses, Paupie & Brian were bound head & foot, tortured and murdered by a single shot to the back of the neck.

So I have experience of being surrounded by wonderful and talented medicinal chemists AND to have seen the other side of the coin where life is cheap.

I'm sorry this ended up so long. I'm still getting over loosing Shelby.
 
Does anyone know what pharmacological properties cause some dissociatives to be more "mania-inducing" than others?

It seems to be tightly related to the "stimulation" in dissociatives. Maybe even the same thing. But what thing is it? Additional receptor affinities? Different mechanism of action at NMDAr?

It seems generally agreed that PCP derivatives are more "mania-inducing" than ketamine derivatives, and that MXE is somewhere in the middle.
 
It seems generally agreed that PCP derivatives are more "mania-inducing" than ketamine derivatives, and that MXE is somewhere in the middle.
From all what I know and read (which isn't exactly much) the underlying mechanism is an increase in glutamatergic transmission by autoreceptor antagonism and AMPAr agonism, so that in the first line all dissociatives are mania inducing. But some have secondary properties like SERT inhibition, mu agonism or even GABAergic/sedative stuff, which work against the former.
 
From all what I know and read (which isn't exactly much) the underlying mechanism is an increase in glutamatergic transmission by autoreceptor antagonism and AMPAr agonism, so that in the first line all dissociatives are mania inducing. But some have secondary properties like SERT inhibition, mu agonism or even GABAergic/sedative stuff, which work against the former.

Very interesting. Thank you.

If you don't mind me asking:

Does this mean that NMDAr antagonists inhibit some glutamate signalling while enhancing some other glutamate signalling?

Or is it rather a rebound effect, after the drug high?

A reflection: I wouldn't trust on GABA intoxication to protect against the dangers of manic decision-making... 😁
 
Does anyone know what pharmacological properties cause some dissociatives to be more "mania-inducing" than others?

It seems to be tightly related to the "stimulation" in dissociatives. Maybe even the same thing. But what thing is it? Additional receptor affinities? Different mechanism of action at NMDAr?

It seems generally agreed that PCP derivatives are more "mania-inducing" than ketamine derivatives, and that MXE is somewhere in the middle.

Yes - it's their DRI properties. It's worth comparing zylofuramine & isophenidine, for example. The second aromatic (THF in the former, benzene in the latter) act as bioisosteres for an ethyl moiety. That is why lefetamine is a stimulant. The problem with diphenidine is that a N as part of a piperidine has little DRI activity while an N-isopropyl has similar activity to an N-ethyl. The design process was:

Diphenidine ---> ephenidine ---> isophenidine

Lots of NMDA Little NMDA Lots of NMDA
affinity, little affinity, lots affinity, lots of
DRI activity of DRI activity DRI acvtivcity.

I use the above example not because it happens to be one of mine, but because it's easy to see the modifications and to tie it to existing agents. Oh, the idiots in the lab initially made the N-pyrrolidine by mistake which is a VERY worrying occurrence. After than f*ckup, I insisted on instrumentational analysis (GC-MS & NMR) for ALL products. It cost £800 per chemical but I lost all trust in them. It was them that stuck with the piperidine (because they had bought far too much of it). They were unable to add an o-Cl or o-F to the '2 position so they came up with o-methoxy and that was HAZARDOUS. Of course, they really didn't have any concerns about the end user. In fact, the guy who came up with the '2-methoxy got fired. He REFUSED to accept responsibility so he was out.

As for the arylcyclohexylamine class of NMDA antagonists, they all possess some DRI activity. In fact, some of them are pure DRIs. BTPC ( benzothiophenylcyclohexylpiperidine) is the most well known example but BTPCy & GK-189 are also pure stimulants. Most people don't seem to know that many of the arylcvyclohexylamine class agents also have opioid activity - the 3-MeO & 3-OH homologues are the best examples. When Dan Lednicer researched dimetidine (and the p-Br homologue), he started from PCP. He noted that some of the subjective effects of PCP are reversed by naloxone (Google it).

Actually, Dan told me a gem about his discovery of BDPC. He made the simpler, p-Br analogue of dimetidine & then went on to explore the QSAR of derivatives. When he discovered BDPC & constructed a Dreiding model showing that it overlaid fentanyl PERFECTLY, he was so excited that he never made or tested the p-Me analogue! I asked him about it and even HE couldn't believe that he had forgotten to try it. Typical genius.

I don't know if it's already reached the RC market, but MDPC (the p-Me analogue of BDPC) & the p-Me analogue of C-8813 are far superior to the p -Br analogues. The reason is metabolism. The -Br analogues primary metabolic pathway is N-demethylation. The secondary amine metabolites are kappa ligands so dysphoria is a pronounced effect. When their is a convenient p-Me moiety, it will readily be hydroxylated & oxidised. OK, so duration is only 4 hours but the reports on BDPC suggest that it's nice for 4 hours, unpleasant for 8 hours....

It is my guess that the reason that BDPC has not become a hugely popular RC is due to the dysphoria. It reminds me of friends who would have nalbuphine stored on a top shelf as their LAST option if they faced cold turkey. I suppose butorphanol would produce similar effects.... but for some odd reason, nalbuphine isn't a controlled drug under the laws of most nations.....

OT again - sorry.
 
Yes - it's their DRI properties. It's worth comparing zylofuramine & isophenidine, for example. The second aromatic (THF in the former, benzene in the latter) act as bioisosteres for an ethyl moiety. That is why lefetamine is a stimulant. The problem with diphenidine is that a N as part of a piperidine has little DRI activity while an N-isopropyl has similar activity to an N-ethyl. The design process was:

Diphenidine ---> ephenidine ---> isophenidine

Lots of NMDA Little NMDA Lots of NMDA
affinity, little affinity, lots affinity, lots of
DRI activity of DRI activity DRI acvtivcity.

I use the above example not because it happens to be one of mine, but because it's easy to see the modifications and to tie it to existing agents. Oh, the idiots in the lab initially made the N-pyrrolidine by mistake which is a VERY worrying occurrence. After than f*ckup, I insisted on instrumentational analysis (GC-MS & NMR) for ALL products. It cost £800 per chemical but I lost all trust in them. It was them that stuck with the piperidine (because they had bought far too much of it). They were unable to add an o-Cl or o-F to the '2 position so they came up with o-methoxy and that was HAZARDOUS. Of course, they really didn't have any concerns about the end user. In fact, the guy who came up with the '2-methoxy got fired. He REFUSED to accept responsibility so he was out.

As for the arylcyclohexylamine class of NMDA antagonists, they all possess some DRI activity. In fact, some of them are pure DRIs. BTPC ( benzothiophenylcyclohexylpiperidine) is the most well known example but BTPCy & GK-189 are also pure stimulants. Most people don't seem to know that many of the arylcvyclohexylamine class agents also have opioid activity - the 3-MeO & 3-OH homologues are the best examples. When Dan Lednicer researched dimetidine (and the p-Br homologue), he started from PCP. He noted that some of the subjective effects of PCP are reversed by naloxone (Google it).

Actually, Dan told me a gem about his discovery of BDPC. He made the simpler, p-Br analogue of dimetidine & then went on to explore the QSAR of derivatives. When he discovered BDPC & constructed a Dreiding model showing that it overlaid fentanyl PERFECTLY, he was so excited that he never made or tested the p-Me analogue! I asked him about it and even HE couldn't believe that he had forgotten to try it. Typical genius.

I don't know if it's already reached the RC market, but MDPC (the p-Me analogue of BDPC) & the p-Me analogue of C-8813 are far superior to the p -Br analogues. The reason is metabolism. The -Br analogues primary metabolic pathway is N-demethylation. The secondary amine metabolites are kappa ligands so dysphoria is a pronounced effect. When their is a convenient p-Me moiety, it will readily be hydroxylated & oxidised. OK, so duration is only 4 hours but the reports on BDPC suggest that it's nice for 4 hours, unpleasant for 8 hours....

It is my guess that the reason that BDPC has not become a hugely popular RC is due to the dysphoria. It reminds me of friends who would have nalbuphine stored on a top shelf as their LAST option if they faced cold turkey. I suppose butorphanol would produce similar effects.... but for some odd reason, nalbuphine isn't a controlled drug under the laws of most nations.....

OT again - sorry.

OT or not, your info dump is much appreciated. It gives a welcome insight.

Do you have any speculations as to the affinities of 3-Methyl-PCP btw? Not that that's any more on topic. 😄
 
OT or not, your info dump is much appreciated. It gives a welcome insight.

Do you have any speculations as to the affinities of 3-Methyl-PCP btw? Not that that's any more on topic. 😄

It's very kind of you to say so, Mjäll. In the interest of full disclosure, a publisher wants me to write a book about my part in the RC market and I find the threads here lead me off into areas I had forgotten. I released 'The Eunoia Disc' about 10 years ago and I know copies have been made because Wiki has stuff on many REALLY obscure compounds and all of the papers & patents on them were ONLY on the ED.

People ask me what was the best discovery. Well, Pyeyzolam (alcohol mimic - I will upload patent) made me proud but the MOST euphoric compound I discovered was pynazolam. It is simply pyrazolam with the 8-Br swapped for an 8-NO2 i.e. 1-methyl-8-nitro-6-(pyridin-2-yl)-4H-[1,2,4]triazolo[4,3-a][1,4]benzodiazepine.

What makes it so euphoric is because it's a potent serotonin releaser & serotonin reuptake inhibitor. All nitrobenzodiazepines increase levels of serotonin (which is why they are used as hypnotics) BUT it's also a potent GABA a223g2/a3b2g2 PAM and has powerful muscle-relaxant properties. 10mg is a STRONG dose. Sadly it was too costly to make until you reached the 500Kg scale (at which point their were people who would make the precvursors cheaply) If I had to compare it to an RC you may have tried, I would say that it's VERY similar to menitroqualone i.e. 2-methyl-3-(4-methyl-2-nitrophenyl)quinazolin-4(3H)-one. You may know the nitromethaqualone story but I produced an analogue that was not carcinogenic & 50mg puts you on your arse. Of cvourse, people thought it WAS nitromethaqualone even when we offered to pay for independent GC-MS/NMR instrumentation... I concvluded that most RC dealers cannot read such instrumentation.
 
Same here, got stuck and downwards on DCK which felt promising (as in: euphoric, which isn't the best mark to rate antidepressant qualities; turned out to be mania instead) but somehow was more addictive and much less 'healing' than MXE was. DMXE recently reminded me a bit of the original but its prohibitively expensive in most shops and this will be expensive too if it makes its way and they find an alternative after NL goes blanketban-'offline'.
No blanket ban, so far just show off politic's at the moment.

We seen it before, in other coutry's besides the UK. they ban Etizolam, or other popular RC's. So now there is FluEtizolam. A way more lasting and powerfull hypnotic. To avoid the ban.
 
No blanket ban, so far just show off politic's at the moment.

We seen it before, in other coutry's besides the UK. they ban Etizolam, or other popular RC's. So now there is FluEtizolam. A way more lasting and powerfull hypnotic. To avoid the ban.
My impression (I don't understand Dutch) so far was that a law implementing a blanket ban had either already been proposed or at least discussed. There's a (online, don't know whether this sort of leads to anything) petition against. Maybe not technically a blanket ban like in the UK but an analogue to the NpSG which Germany has since a few years?
 
My impression (I don't understand Dutch) so far was that a law implementing a blanket ban had either already been proposed or at least discussed. There's a (online, don't know whether this sort of leads to anything) petition against. Maybe not technically a blanket ban like in the UK but an analogue to the NpSG which Germany has since a few years?
Didn't work our that way. corona or having a di-missonaire cabinet could be the cull prits.

They didn't form a new gouvernemet as of yet i believe.

No blanket ban as of yet.
 
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