[Mushrooms Subthread] Potentiation by Citrus Juice

[fastandbulbous]

I can understand how lemon juice would attract the psilocybin and absorb it quicker

I'm assuming you mean salt formation? Well that'll happen in the stomach anyway as the oxyntic cells secrete 0.1M hydrochloric acid, and that's much better at forming salts with amines than most organic acids like citric acid.

Citric acid also will not catalyse or otherwise any conversion of psilocin to any other drug, active or not. Now citric acid has no effect on receptor binding w.r.t. any serotonogic drug, so that can't be the mechanism either.

The only viable explanation I can think of (which I'll consider a bit later) is that there's something else present in the juice that inhibits the breakdown of psilocin (like the way a flavanoid in grapfruit inhibits the cyp3A4 enzyme that's responsible for the metabolism of quite a few drugs). Now that would be fine and dandy if psilocin was metabolized by one opf the cytochrome P450 enzymes, but the main metabolic enzyme is monoamine oxidase (MAO) and if lemons contained a substance that inhibited MAO (an MAOI), we'd def have heard about it by now, as that'd mean amphetamine + lemons = a visit to hospital.

So, I'd have to say that it's almost definitely placebo in action

 

[kingpen]

Fascinating! I'm gonna try this with 4-HO-MIPT!

crOOk

Good idea. SWIM was thinking he was crazy for wanting to do this but it looks like he isnt the only one.

 

[NinjaElite]

Don't believe everything you read at the shroomery.

Damn, dont make me pick sides now. I know no one is over there at the shroomery is talking shit. So why start. The Shroomery is an awesome site, and provides tons of info for shroom hunters.

I've read the thread in question and it seems that it maybe true. Now, I won't believe any of it until I try it myself soooooo......... Off shrooming I go, it just rained here in central FL and the boomers should be out full force. Until then Ill keep my mouth shut.

 

[Blowmonkey]

I've read the thread in question and it seems that it maybe true.

What, that bunch of speculation..? Because it's nothing more than that.

There's countless of other reasons why some people are hit harder.. It may be due to the solution, it may be due to placebo, it may be due to the strength of the mushrooms, it may be due to stomach content, et-ce-te-ra..

 

[Black Octagon]

^Mushrooms wouldn't be the first drug to absorb a hell of a lot quicker by infusing its dried material in citic acid first...

 

[Drkstr]

is it really so hard to belive?

snorting 'x'mg's of coke will produce more profound effects than eating the same amount. snorting x amount of 2c-t-2 produces much more profound effects than taking the same amount oral.

if the lemon/lime juice really does help the psylocybin/psilocin enter the bloodstream, then a quicker and more intense trip will be soon to come, just like snorting vs oral. you will have more chemicals circulating at once, giving you that more intense high. but it will also be broken down faster which then explains the shorter durations.

could be placebo, might not be. but either way...if it is just placebo, who gives a fuck. you're still trippin harder than you would have

 

[Elgr]

Theres a lot of crap posted at the shroomery, I've been a member there for a few years. When I first saw it, I laughed. I believe I even posted about an orange juice myth. But when Wiccan_Seeker puts his faith behind one of these myth-seeming posts, it's usually worth looking at a bit more seriously.

How about we call it speculation, try it, and then cry right or wrong? After all, if it is placebo, the skeptics will have nothing to worry about, confident that they'll be right Perhaps they'll even dumb down their trips a bit If then, the skeptics get huge trips off small amounts, the conversation could be continued some more...

 

[Blowmonkey]

^Mushrooms wouldn't be the first drug to absorb a hell of a lot quicker by infusing its dried material in citic acid first...

Sigh.. Such as..?

This is just letting the active compounds absorb in a solution.. Everything in a solution will be absorbed a bit more easily. Ever made a mushroom tea? It will hit you a bit harder.. It will not make your trip 3-5 times stronger though. It is not due to the ph of the lemon juice and digestive enzymes in the juice.. That's all a load of crap.

You're all far too fucking gullible.

 

[futura]

"You're all far too fucking gullible."

 

[gloggawogga]

If its true, why then did no one discover it till 2005? Its not like people in the 50's and 60's had never ate any citrus fruit on the the day they did shrooms. Sure, maybe you absorb it a little faster by mixing in a weak acid first, thats all, and thats already been known.

Damn, dont make me pick sides now.

How am i making you pick sides? I simply said "don't believe everything you read at the shroomery". I did NOT say "don't believe anything you read at the shroomery", did I? Don't believe everything you read here either. Don't believe everything you read, period. Don't believe everything you think, either.

I know no one is over there at the shroomery is talking shit. So why start. The Shroomery is an awesome site, and provides tons of info for shroom hunters.

They provide some usefull information for hunting and growing shrooms. But take a good look at the hysterical unscientific crap and all the pure bullshit rumors they started about bromodragonfly, which their moderators did nothing to contain. Bromodragonfly being sold on blotters in the US as LSD, being carcinogenic, causing DNA damage, etc. etc. All pure speculative bullshit. When they start bullshit rumors, they need and deserve to be flagged for it.

 

[Black Octagon]

^Ok I'm not going to continue fighting, but the issue here is the thread about citric acid increasing the strength of a mushroom trip. And the testimony of many many people who have tried this and say it works cannot, imho, be dismissed as 'pure speculation' or 'unscientific.' It's about as empirical as you can get without performing proper tests in a laboratory.

What IS speculation is the contention that these people must all be experiencing some unanimous placebo effect (and btw, 4-5x the strength of a regular mushroom trip is a HELL of a placebo effect). I'm not saying that this theory is right or wrong, just giving an opinion about what we can sensibly infer from the Shroomery thread.

Not that we're getting anywhere discussing this thread. As others have suggested, I will try this in the next few weeks and report back. Anyone else feel free to do the same...maybe if a positive experience report is posted over here as opposed to the Shroomery it will be taken a little more seriously...8) (That's right folks, it's called irony. Put away that big flamethrower, you big beast you!)

EDIT - Btw, gloggawogga, it's not quite a simple a case as people in the 50s and 60s eating an orange with their mushrooms. This is about using citric acid (or fruits with high amounts thereof) in an extraction, preferably on a dry material. It's like when you add lemon juice to ephedra tea or yohimbe tea, sort of.

 

[crOOk]

I will try consuming 2.5 grams of citric acid along with 5mg of 4-HO-MIPT today. I'll report back to you guys.
I don't expect anything to happen, my guess is that the citric acid just fastens the extraction of the 4-HO-DMT from the shrooms, seems logical to me, ever put shrooms into strong acid? I have not, but I'm sure they'd dissolve. lol

EDIT: Btw I think it's ridiculous that people start posting here if they don't believe in this without ever having tried it first... It just makes this thread unreadable and useless. So please don't post if you think you cannot contribute to this thing. Then again, those who don't think they could contribute probably don't even take the time to read through the thread... 8)

crOOk

 

[justlearning]

one gram of shrooms magically effect you like 4 or 5 grams. That can't be possible seems more placebo in effect also!

It's just logicly very hard to believe that if one was to use the method sugested that one gram can equal 3, 4 or 5 grams! 1 gram can only contain a certain amount / percent of psilocybin, right. How is it possible for the citric to increase the percentage amount of psilocybin in 1g.

What im reading into this is that the lemon mixed with the powdered shrooms is just being absorbed much faster into the body, just because it is in a liquid state instead of a solid form. something like crushing up a time released pill so it will hit you all at once instead of slowly being absorbed, something like a morphine drip. And it still depends on how much food is in the stomach before you drink it. Everyone already knows that taking something on an empty stomach gets you there faster and hits you more intensely.

20mg's of psilocybin cannot magically become 60mg's, unless you know Merlin or someone who can turn lead into gold by adding a molecule or 2.

 

[Black Octagon]

^justlearning:

As I understand the thread, no-one sensible is claiming that citric acid turns 1g of mushrooms into 5g. Regular ingestion of mushrooms only results in so much psilocybin being absorbed, and at only such and such a rate (alas, no figures). I'm assuming that if this citric acid thing is true, it's because it either increases the rate of absorption (as you say), or it increases the raw percentage of the psilocybin that the body absorbs (as in the case of ephedra tea or yohimbe tea), or both. I 'think' this is what's meant by the term 'bioavailability.'

Look at the title of this thread. It doesn't say or imply that citric acid magically multiply the amount of psilocybin. It says 'increases the strength' of mushrooms. Sorry if I sound like I'm lecturing you but I want to make that very clear.

 

[Blowmonkey]

Well maybe you guys are right. We should have a few guinea pigs try a few different drugs in combination with lemon juice (e.g. amphetamine). Any suggestions?

Do remember that a single experience is not worth much. It should consist of trials.

 

[Ismene]

And the testimony of many many people who have tried this and say it works cannot, imho, be dismissed as 'pure speculation' or 'unscientific.' It's about as empirical as you can get without performing proper tests in a laboratory.

Make that "testimony of people who have just read a guy SAYING this will increase your trip by five times" and sure enough your trip is increased by "5 times", never 3 times, or even 2 times, as if you can tell a trip is "5 times more potent than it would have been"

We should have a few guinea pigs try a few different drugs in combination with lemon juice (e.g. amphetamine). Any suggestions?

It needs to be a blind test to be worth a damn. Otherwise it's obviously placebo.

 

[Blowmonkey]

Certainly. But given that lemon juice has a pretty distinguishable taste, I don't see how that's gonna work.
The test is doomed to begin with.

 

[crOOk]

@Ismene
"Obvious placebo"? WTF?! It's not like placebo works for everyone. If 100% of the people give positive responses it will certainly not be a placebo.
About the "blind test"... I am not going to poison anyone because unless they're signing some piece of paper, that is what I would be doing in a blind test, especially I'm not gonna trick anyone into having a trip 5x as strong as the one he thinks he's gonna have...

crOOk

 

[StagnantReaction]

I hear if you snort the lemon juice you get really high.

 

[Blowmonkey]

I'm not gonna trick anyone into having a trip 5x as strong as the one he thinks he's gonna have...

Then you don't. That's what the test is about, to confirm or dismiss the claims being made.