• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Mushrooms: Poison??

Well, nothing really evolves for a reason, evolution "just happens".

DMT is everywhere, for some reason somewhere back in time these mushrooms started adding an OH to the 4 position. Just random mutations, it can keep some animals away possibly, and attract others (humans). It just happens. I have a feeling mushrooms and humans are very connected through time/evolution (well everything is).

I definitely don't think its a poison for us, I think its good for us. As for me personally, psilocin feels so natural and perfect, nothing about it at all makes me feel wierd, it feels just right.
 
Mushrooms never hurt my stomach per se, rather my chest and my head. I get allergy like symptoms, coughing, sneezing, runny nose. I certainly feel poisoned for a few hours, then clear up at the end.

Just wanted to add that I have heard of certain mammals seeking out mushrooms as well.
 
The enzymes that convery convert typtophan to tryptamine, and tryptamine to dimethyltryptamine aren't exactly uncommon. There are a number of plants that this occurs on. I don't think its that wierd that a another life form has these, and through mutations aquired an enzyme that puts on a hydroxy group.

This would make the chemical active at far, far smaller doses in animals. Even if it just warded off a few more predators than the unmutated fungus, it would give it an evolutionary advantage.

As for the cows, well, I've grown up around them and I'm pretty sure they eat the mushrooms unintentionally all the time. They are really pretty dumb as far as animals go, and are indiscriminate eater. They will eat small sticks and all kinds of stuff if it happens to be in clump of grass they want to eat. They weigh quite a bit, and it would take metric fuckton of mushrooms to get them fried.

There are some sheep somewhere (scotland?... NZ?) that would eat enough phalaris grass to get messed up ("the staggers").. so it would seem that in at least some cases either bufotenine, 5-meo-dmt, or dmt is a defense mechanism. psilocin isn't far off, so it could be a natural progression.

I've read that that THC, THCV and maybe some of the other cannabinoids may be protection from UV light (and that the highger the elevation, the more the plants tend to have). My memory is fuzzy on this though, Id have to look into it again.

I'm more curious about whether or not the large, wierd, highly active molecules like the salivinorins are intended as defensive mechanisms.
 
What fizzacyst said... -most- shrooms don't contain a very high percentage of active tryptamines... and there are lots which contain very very small amounts... these compounds are quite likely just metabolic dead ends...

However, Staggers, caused by phalaris grass, aren't related to tryptamine content...
 
from what ive read and observed for myself,a lot of animals seem to prefer psychedelic plants to non-active ones.elephants seek out fermented fruit,monkeys are known to steal cigarettes,cats like cat-nip and reindeer fly agaric,to name a few.
a lot of the myths surrounding psychoactive plants revolve around someone observing an animal repeatedly go back to one particular plant after showing signs of inebriation,coffee and khats effects were discovered like this and,i think,coca.the animals concerned obviosly enjoy the effects or they wouldnt keep going back for more.
i have personally obseved cattle,horses and sheep hoovering up liberty caps as well as the damage caused to dope by rabbits.for these reasons i do not think psilocybin came about to repel mammals,in fact i believe quite the opposite.
you might find some more out by looking up "entheozoopharmacognosy".
 
cyanide? where did u read this?

Sounds very unlikely. A source would be great
thanks
 
ive definateley heard that you trip when you eat mushrooms because it is a form of foood poisioning,.... never really thought much of it...does anyone know if this is true?
 
high on stemz is a troll so don't pay attention to him, and Guelah_Papyrus, read up on erowid or something.. You get high on the psilocybin & psilocin in the mushrooms, you're not being food-poisoned.
 
(non-toxic) compounds with cyanide groups on them are not that uncommon. I have my doubts about free cyanide ions floating around in mushrooms, though.
 
serpent said:
i have personally obseved cattle,horses and sheep hoovering up liberty caps as well as the damage caused to dope by rabbits.for these reasons i do not think psilocybin came about to repel mammals,in fact i believe quite the opposite.

When you show me that a) the dose of psilocybin they recieve is enough to produce psychedelic effects b) they choose psilocybin contian mushrooms specifically and c) choose them because of psilocybin and not their taste... then maybe I'll believe you. Untill then, there are at least 3 explanations to that observation.
 
Bilzor is correct. But serpent hasn't been proven wrong yet. It would be interesting to find out the results of this.

In regards to what serpent said. "i do not think psilocybin came about to repel mammals,in fact i believe quite the opposite." If this were true, than one could speculate that psilocybin mushrooms evolved to attract animals, so that the animals would eat them, shit them out, and thus more would sprout, further extending it's biological evolution.
 
^ Except that that doesn't really explain all of the shrooms that have very low potency... a big fuck off cow is going to need to eat like 100... a sheep, 30 or so... shrooms don't grow in that density... it just doesn't make sense. And seeing as you get animals which eat Amanita Muscaria, which definatly is poisoness, I think animals just like mushrooms because they are tastey.
 
Perhaps. I have observed cows eating psychedelic mushrooms (and other mushrooms, as well). Old piles of cow poo grow huge healthy clumps of grass, as well as mushrooms. You can't always see the shrooms unless you get right over the spot or dig around. Maybe if they see them they eat as food, but I think at least some of the time they just eat them because they happen to be in the grass they're eating.

Cows will eat all kinds of stuff. They don't seem to be too picky. At least, the ones we had on the farm did not. They were like organic lawnmowers.
 
may i answer your questions with a quote bilzor?

“A variety of animals feed on diverse psilocybin mushrooms, most commonly on Psilocybe and Panaeolus, which are popularly known as funghetti by young Italians who seek them out for their hallucinogenic effects (Pagani, 1993).

Siegel relates having seen dogs in Hawaii and Mexico deliberately nipping the caps off psilocybin mushrooms and swallowing them. After only a few minutes, the creatures were running in circles, shaking their heads, howling and barking, and refusing to obey human commands (Siegel 1989, 68). Although it is unclear whether the dogs were conscious of what would happen to them after ingestion of the mushrooms, there is no such question about intentionality in the case of goats. These peculiar ruminants seem to enjoy absolute supremacy in the animal world as far as their passion for disparate drugs is concerned.

In the course of my field research on the hallucinogenic mushrooms growing in Italy’s alpine meadows (Samorini 1993), I have personally observed on several occasions the greed with which goats will devour the species Psilocybe semilanceata. Once I was actually assaulted by a large billy-goat, which gave me a shove with his powerful horns while I was bent over to observe some funghetti. He was one of the more massive animals in a herd of about 50 that was rambling by me. Trusting in their harmlessness (though aware of their curiosity), I simply continued gathering the mushrooms. When I saw that several goats had stopped to watch me, I smiled at ingenuously and showed them the bunch of mushrooms I had just harvested. The moment I did so, the buck leaped forward and shoved me sharply with his horns, causing me to roll several feet down the slope. During my tumble, the paper bag holding the mushrooms I had collected fell out of my hand. Surprised and frightened, I remained at a distance from the buck, who, with several other goats, threw himself on the sack and devoured its contents. When it was empty, the animals began rooting through the grass, gobbling up all the mushrooms I had not yet collected.

Ever since, when I have encountered a bunch of goats, I have followed the advice of a knowledgable goat-herd and brandished my stick on high; it is the only way to stop them. And when I stumble onto a psilocybin site already claimed by goats, I make no attempt to drive them off – partly out of respect for them, but partly from fear of being attacked by animals already under the influence of this powerful drug and therefore doubly recalcitrant and dangerous.

Once they locate a cluster of psilocybin mushrooms, goats will not eat grass or any other kind of fungus, feeding exclusively on their drug of choice. It seems clear that they know how to recognise it, and that they search it out for its psychoactive effects. Goats under its influence exhibit overstimulated behaviour, run about awkwardly, and shake their heads wildly back and forth.”

From: "Animals and Psychedelics: The Natural World and the Instinct to Alter Consciousness" by Giorgio Samorini (Park Street Press, Vermont, 2000).

thanks to snotty for typing that for me,each time i tried it it logged me out for some reason.i am not a very fast typist.
 
Yeah, that doesn't show that the goats wouldnt have been equally pissed if he was picking non-psychoactive mushrooms. Goats will fuck you up if you piss around with most of their shit.
 
i have very rarely seen them behave as described,ive usually found them to be friendly and curious.the whole book that i quoted from is about animals innate desires to get high.he provides more than enough evidence for it and the quote above is one of many i could have chosen.i think some of a species of animal will find psilocybin pleasant,will actively seek it out and then spread the spores throughout a wider area via the digestive system.as i said before,the myths surrounding the discovery of these plants and mushrooms usually revolve around observing an animal repeatedly going for the same foodsource,exhibiting inebriated behaviour,then repeating the process.i guess it comes down to whether you believe in intoxication or inebriation as to whether it is a poison or not.
 
Some people are so trusting.

You dont think he might have made some of it up to support his own preheld beliefs? Or perhaps to make a better book? As I say, you see herbivours eating mushrooms all the time.

On a behavioural level, all animals tested, bar humans find hallucinogens a noxious stimuli. That is, if you give them a lever to press that will give the psylocybin, they will press that lever once, and then never press it again.
 
Top