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mushroom spores are legal, so why no discussion?

^^This was already acknowledged and reinforced several times already to op; in addition to a few posts containing basic knowledge to at the very least help anyone start researching basic cultivation techniques.

I dont think anyone else here can answer why psilocybin mushrooms arent legal. The united states government is a law unto themselfs often disregarding the constitution, finding loop holes in peoples rights, and flat out turning a cheek to scientifically reinforced information.

Its the same reason cannabis is not legal on the federal level. With regards to legalizing many naturally occurring psychoactives, doing so would represent a threat to the greater interests of the government; and by that i mean a few things.

The first being money. Monetary gain is the ultimate driving force in the casual nexus amongst the united states government, underlying agencies, private banking, and private big pharma.

Wild growing naturally occurring substances cannot be patented by big pharma. For instance it would sound insane for big pharma to patent a common plant (lets say daisies had a medically applied purpose). Agencies would have no control or success in stopping other interested parties in procuring this plant or going into the wild and picking it themselves for free. So if this can be done then why would anyone in their right mind pay big pharma to do this.

Second, doing so would harm big pharmas profit from other applicable treatments and medications; in contrast im specifically refering to psilocybin mushrooms or cannabis. If the plant itself cannot be patented and there is the potential for treatment as an alternative therapy to psychiatric medication, then of course people are going to show interest. Sure pharma could isolate, produce, patent, and distribute the primary compound or chemical of interest within the plant, but again, who would pay for this if they can just grow and consume the entirety of the plant for free!

Do you see where this is going. The concatenation of events would affect all other interested parties. Agencies wouldnt have the resources or the funds to support or enforce the interest of big pharma. So if federal agencies are draining funds, then ultimately the US government takes a loss.

In addition to this concept, these psychoactive plants have to power to introduce a new state of consciousness in the user resulting in metaphysical realizations and an awakening of sorts. (This alternative theory is a little more subjective to my beliefs)

The result of this “awakening” represents a threat to the global status quo (to which the US government is included) and also a threat to major hidden power brokers implementing and enforcing their plan for new world order. Any threat may result in action of the people, which has the potential for success in overturning the said power groups.

In return the success of this new influential pattern of thought is in direct conflict in the governments efforts to keep you asleep to their true interests and actions at work. And this interest is not the well-being of the people; the interest is monetary gain and gain through power and control of natural resources. (Again this more alternative approach to this is subjective to my thought)

So acesin; man we all suffer because of this. Its not that BL doesnt care, its that the ultimate focus of the form is that of harm reduction rather than refractory or self-willed thoughts of technical legalites. The topic is already fragile in the general public’s eye and i dont think its in anyones best interest here to approach the topic in such a blunt manner. If you cant spend an hour on shroomery and find the answers you seek, then message me. This is not intended to sound sarcastic, rather genuine. I have a love for this mushroom just as im sure everyone else who’s contributed to this thread does as well.
 
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You've hit the nail on the head, FS, although your last point is the most relevant.

There is a real need for them to keep people "just smart enough to do the job" regardless of which country we are talking about. We are not talking about countries. We are talking about multinational corporations that have a vested interest in keeping people just smart enough to do the job. Schools have dumbed down the curriculum so that curiosity and opened mindedness are discouraged (to be polite).
 
ditto on the private message thing... if you have questions about wild foraging, i can do my best to help out, even though im not online all the time.

its been a long time since ive grown, so im not much help there, but im constantly in mushroom hunting mode, so please feel free to pick my brain.

and if you are seriously interested in mycology, id highly recommend picking up the book 'MYCELIUM RUNNING' by paul stamets. it is a great asset for learning all about mushrooms in general, including some about psilo types.
 
ok just another question, if medicinal mushrooms gathered in the wild have different chemistry and medicinal value versus cultivated ones, how do psychedelic mushrooms fare in comparison, wild versus cultivated? there is lots of information on this, but wild mushrooms definately are more bioactive if someone cares to research its true. except i really cannot find information on psychedelic ones in differences.
 
^^I dont believe this is necessarily true. Im not trying to argue but its just my opinion. Its really dependent on what strain you cultivate. Just like cannabis. For instance if you use the technique I mentioned about isolating the choice rizomorphic mycelium then you would essentially be breeding the mushroom for its more desirable qualities. Similar to the way different strains of cannabis are breed for specific qualities.

Going back to your statement about the wild mushrooms being stronger; this may true dependent on external factors. The mushroom essentially breeds itself. Survival of the fittest man. Just like I mentioned in the earlier post; nature does all the work for you and thats the beauty of it. However if you acquire the right knowledge and technique, then a vary similar process can be executed with home cultivation.

Just my two cents. Opinions will vary and everyone’s experience with this particular topic, really is subjective. Idk the basis of your opinions, or where you found some of this information, but in 20 years of doing this ive never heard of some of these presumptions mentioned. I really am genuinely trying to help you; nor am i trying to implicate a pretentious tone. Honestly youve gotten all the information that im willing to provide on this forum.

Dude; like everyones been saying, just go to shroomery for the rest. I really hope you find the answers you seek. I want to see everyone succeed in this process. The mushroom holds significant value to me; medicinally, recreationally, and metaphysically. Best of luck to you acesin and all others that contributed.
 
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ToriTransmundane said:
Slightly offtopic but still relevant. Portugal decrimalized all drugs, and over 10 years later the results have been lovely! Interesting articles: \
https://www.thefix.com/content/decrim-nation-portugal-ten-years-later
https://news.vice.com/article/ungas...-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin

<3
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that Portugal only "decriminalized" using drugs. That means they're still not "legal". If they catch you with drugs - even if they're for personal use - they'll still confiscate them from you. Sure, they won't lock you up for posession (atleast for minor amounts), but actual drug dealing is a whole nother story.
 
I grew several years ago for about eight months and it was extremely rewarding. Personal setup for myself and friends, nothing left my social circle, but what I found to help me (with all the information easily available) was to study the easier teks suggested for newcomers and then pick one and blindly follow it. Once your first success comes then so will some level of confidence and you can explore a little in your technique....point is that my first experience was insanely overwhelming because I'd read so many different ways and a lot of those teks do things in very different manners. So at times I'd feel like "oh this can't be right because that's the opposite of how it's done in another tek"....don't know if that makes sense but I wish you the best of luck in your research!
 
asecin said:
ok just another question, if medicinal mushrooms gathered in the wild have different chemistry and medicinal value versus cultivated ones, how do psychedelic mushrooms fare in comparison, wild versus cultivated? there is lots of information on this, but wild mushrooms definately are more bioactive if someone cares to research its true. except i really cannot find information on psychedelic ones in differences.
Click to expand...
i have no experience comparing a single species, both nature grown and cultivated, but i do know that like fungousSneeze said, different strains of each species can have a bit of variance, but more striking is the potency discrepancies between species.

for instance (ime)
psilocybe cubensis @ 3.5g

appx equivalent to

2-2.5g psilocybe ovoideocystidiata
3.5-7g panaeolus cinctulus (depends on habitat)
10-15g gymnopilus junonius
5+g panaeolina spp
 
^^ 6 grams of honey soaked azurescens absolutely caught me off guard and ripped my perception and every preconceived notion toward this universe to shreds. I went deeper than i would have on 10 grams of cubes. So agreeably, there is significant variency specific to different strains.
 
The reason for the general difference in legality is very simple: no psilocybin can be detected in spores really, but it can in mycelium or mushrooms (see for exceptions towards the end of this post). Spores are normally sold strictly 'for microscopic use' which is clearly a disclaimer similar to the ones RCs have about ingesting them. It might also be something of a matter of plausible deniability, if they catch you with a lot of materials to grow and a whole bunch of spores that probably isn't going to be good, but under normal circumstances you could argue you are just curious and studying them without all the evidence being to the contrary.

There are many vendors selling spores but we are not going to link anything because this forum is not for sourcing any such thing intended to grow or manufacture drugs, whether legal or illegal, although we do discuss other paraphernalia that have NO relation to growing, making or otherwise acquiring the drugs but rather e.g. handling them. For example scales are safe territory, also important for HR.
Besides, it's so easy to find spores online that you shouldn't need directions.

As for the 'discussion' here, that really depends where/what you are talking about. Cultivation of mushrooms is discussed here if you follow the central shroom threads via the index, cultivation is a subthread (and scattered separate threads). The Shroomery is far more specialized on this topic though and there are countless threads there!

If there is more to your questions, please explain because that is not clear to me right now.

Am personally working with Psilocybe Cyanescens right now for a balcony planter in spring, and am expecting spores of Psilocybe Serbica. :D


wiki said:
In the United States, possession of psilocybin-containing mushrooms is illegal because they contain the Schedule I drugs psilocin and psilocybin. Spores, however, which do not contain psychoactive chemicals, are only explicitly illegal in Georgia, Idaho, and California.[33] In the rest of the country, it is not illegal to just sell the spores, but selling them with the purpose of producing hallucinogenic mushrooms is illegal.[34][35] Except for ornamental purposes, growing, selling or possessing Psilocybe spp. and Conocybe spp. is prohibited by Louisiana State Act 159.
Click to expand...

https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_law8.shtml

You checked 'all the laws in the US' ? 8)



Sorry I missed that there is a second page to this thread, by bad.

In response to previous posts:

P. Azurescens is not a strain but a whole separate species from Cubensis and a much more potent one (among the most potent actually); strain is a word used to refer to varieties which is basically different races of the same species that developed a bit differently in various places around the world, and Cubensis is spreaded throughout. I don't think a reliable variation (I should say deviation) in potency has been shown for any variety of Cubensis except for mutants like Penis Envy which are an exception because they seem to have a significant genetic difference and as such are not typical examples of the genotype.

Think of humans around the world: you have different races and there are superficial differences and also some deeper ones like regarding metabolism some way or another, but the latter are exceptions and for the most part humans are the same.

If by experience you find differences between batches of mushrooms, there are so many factors at play like conditions of growing and just the exact genetics of your culture (which is often not even a monoculture but instead a genetic mix), that you couldn't really attribute this to the variety you happen to have.
Choose or collect Cubensis varieties to grow out of interest and fun, or because you prefer say tendency to produce many small mushrooms or a few large ones (even though they amount to the same average total yield more or less!), but don't trust the bullshit vendors write up. Often you read fantastic descriptions but these are marketing ploys. Interesting at most, but not that meaningful.

You can get good genetics if you get a monoculture (so not spores!) from a very reputable source, a culture that just grows well and yields a lot... but not even that is a guarantee for potency. Penis Envy can be unreliable to grow and sometimes just produces a bunch of messed up looking mushrooms and just very few of them, this is a tradeoff for their higher average potency. Hardly anyone tests their generations of varieties to breed them for potency so it would be rather special to find a reliably more potent but otherwise normal variety.

I kinda stopped caring about varieties of Cubensis mostly... I like Albino A+ because of course it actually looks so different (again: a mutation), also Golden Teachers because of nostalgia basically... Then there are particular clones like Golden Halo. So yeah there are curiosities, exceptions... but IMO for the rest a lot of them seem like a crapshoot with unpredictable results and not all that great to get your hopes up for the wrong reasons. Still plenty of other things to fascinate about growing shrooms, don't get me wrong.
 
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thanks solipsis. i was recently looking at the varieties offered as spores for sell and there are like dozen of different types, my head was spinning which were good for first timer. i like your information though on varies different types and their effect. ill consider it.
 
Cool, and yeah I can see that the choice is dizzying... luckily you can hardly go wrong if you just pick a nice sounding bunch of spores from a decent vendor. Spores are a genetic raffle anyway so you never know: it's survival of the fittest. It would require agar work to isolate a culture but it basically happens through survival of the fittest, too... only you can isolate one single culture rather than the mix of 'winners' multispore is.

I am personally skeptical that different varieties can produce consistently different effects to begin with, so again: I wouldn't worry too much about some varieties supposedly being more visual or something like that. Plus: if you buy spores, the genes are reshuffled compared to the mushrooms they came from so it would not be credible that the supposed effects or properties even carry over to this new generation you will create.

Someone should do analysis on mushrooms to see how much even the psilocybin vs. psilocin and other alkaloids proportions and potency vary if you clone a culture a couple generations, and also do a double blind experiment with a few standardized shroom products with different generations of the same monoculture.
As far as I know, people aren't always so good at even telling different psychedelics apart and it's very unclear whether the effects from mushrooms / 4-xO-DMT and how they can vary aren't just psychological and pure chance.

Anyway, have fun growing :) I'll try to help if you have questions about the cultivation but otherwise the Shroomery is a great forum for it.
 
iirc, "b+" was always the strain of p. cubensis most prescribed for those new to cultivation. fwiw, i didnt go with b+ for my first grow, and the four i chose from didnt seem any better or worse. i dont think you can go wrong, unless a strain is specifically described as being high maintenance, or for confident growers only.

there are also mushroom spore trading groups on facebook, and the fb mycology community is pretty tight-knit.
 
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