Most Spiritual Psychedelic?

[muie]

In the quest for the most spiritual psychedleic i've had a few tryptamines, MDMA, MDA, LSD, phenetylamines and i've learned not to equate visuals with psychedelic potential.

DMT was the most overwhelming in terms of colours as well as 4-ho-mipt which was insane.
LSD I always just laughed my ass off i can't see how you can have a bad trip from it (highest was 410mcg).
Shrooms seem to be the most spiritual of all even though I've had trips where I laughed hysterically and didn't learn anything they seem most promising though I haven't ever tried mescaline.

Anyone care to share their opinions?

 

[Foodbag]

In terms of disintegrating the ego, being completely open and without fear, I found a combination of MDMA and classic British liberty caps worked a treat! I personally found it to be quite a spiritual experience but i suppose 'spiritual' is a bit subjective.

I found DMT to also be quite profound but then I think everyone does

 

[Yeetbeat]

Shrooms, definitely. They overwhelm me with a sense of oneness with the universe and make it feel like my consciousness is another another plane of existence or dimension, and that my body is nothing more than a meat-robot being piloted by it.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

5-MeO-DMT is the ultimate 'Universal Oneness' trip. A trip that shows one that they are the universe. Ibogaine is the ultimate 'me' trip. Iboga is a shrub that is haunted..and you eat it and this old spirit is inside and it holds your hand and walks you back through your Earthly journey, shows you your mistakes and suggests ways for you to 'rebehave' in response. They say life is 10% your decisions and 90% how you react to them. Iboga/ibogaine allows one to learn to rebahave to the decisions you have made and ideally correct maladaptive behaviors and learn from mistakes instead of suffering from them.

 

[GolemGolem]

Mushrooms for me too. Feeling like a spirit of some form or another trying to communicate with me is very common, feeling like I'm living someone elses life for a bit, spontaniously finding new songs to sing that I'm not sure are even mine. Mushrooms have been very kind and generous to me.

 

[Xorkoth]

Definitely mushrooms give me the most direct feeling of connectedness to the Earth and my spiritual self. They feel very Earth-based and organic. I get a very powerful spiritual effect from 2C-E also but it is more galactic, on a universal scale (I get from mushrooms too but it doesn't seem to be the focus). It's also less warm and personal, more logical and mathematical, but spiritual nonetheless. Ketamine and for me, MXE to an even greater extent, produce trips that are extremely spiritual but in a much different way. However I am able to reach the oneness and experience the universal consciousness very strongly on them. Mescaline is also very spiritual for me, but so far in my experiences it has been in a very ego-centered way, as in, I still feel like the human me, but as if I have a wise Earth teacher tutoring me over my shoulder. I feel strong connection to and understanding of nature and I feel very in tune with my body and myself.

 

[tryptamine-tripper]

4-AcO-DMT; mushrooms are too hazy/spaced out to hold real spiritual value, I think a lot of people basically decide they do before even doing them so then when they do them they get the effect they wanted. Mushrooms are certainly very mystical, 4 substituted tryptamines all are and that certainly includes psilocybin/psilocin, but if I'm gonna have a real deep spiritual experience I need lucidity- hence why 4-AcO-DMT is preferable, most of the effects are extremely close to mushrooms, but it's a lot clearer (and cleaner, but that's besides the point), and the similarities to DMT are more noticeable. LSD can actually be the most spiritual, and is overall my favorite psychedelic, but LSD can and will go any number of different directions, the LSD headspace is most variable of any psychedelic in my experience, while 4-AcO-DMT is very consistent in it's effects I find. The one time I've eaten Mescaline I found it very spiritual/mystical, definitely something I want to to (a lot) more of. I could also see DPT lending itself to some intense spiritual experiences, though DPT's headspace is almost as variable as LSD's.

 

[ComfortablyNumb95]

Iboga is a shrub that is haunted..and you eat it and this old spirit is inside and it holds your hand and walks you back through your Earthly journey, shows you your mistakes and suggests ways for you to 'rebehave' in response. They say life is 10% your decisions and 90% how you react to them. Iboga/ibogaine allows one to learn to rebahave to the decisions you have made and ideally correct maladaptive behaviors and learn from mistakes instead of suffering from them.

I just read your ibogane trip report on erowid and enjoyed it greatly. it sounds like something i'll definetely do later in life, when I'll be ready

 

[Xorkoth]

4-AcO-DMT; mushrooms are too hazy/spaced out to hold real spiritual value, I think a lot of people basically decide they do before even doing them so then when they do them they get the effect they wanted. Mushrooms are certainly very mystical, 4 substituted tryptamines all are and that certainly includes psilocybin/psilocin, but if I'm gonna have a real deep spiritual experience I need lucidity- hence why 4-AcO-DMT is preferable, most of the effects are extremely close to mushrooms, but it's a lot clearer (and cleaner, but that's besides the point), and the similarities to DMT are more noticeable. LSD can actually be the most spiritual, and is overall my favorite psychedelic, but LSD can and will go any number of different directions, the LSD headspace is most variable of any psychedelic in my experience, while 4-AcO-DMT is very consistent in it's effects I find. The one time I've eaten Mescaline I found it very spiritual/mystical, definitely something I want to to (a lot) more of. I could also see DPT lending itself to some intense spiritual experiences, though DPT's headspace is almost as variable as LSD's.

Everyone reacts differently... I find 4-AcO-DMT and mushrooms to be opposite in clarity, for me mushrooms (while they certainly CAN be muddled) tend to be very clear and direct, whereas 4-AcO-DMT feels more like a cloudy, oral version of smoked DMT (I don't find it very similar to mushrooms at all). 4-HO-DMT (synthetic, pure) is quite similar to mushrooms for me, but much clearer, I prefer it.

People having spiritual experiences on mushrooms doesn't mean they are fooling themselves with the placebo effect just because your experience doesn't line up.

 

[alf meneas]

There's no such thing as a 'spiritual psychedelic', they're just substances that affect the functioning of the bag of meat in your skull.

Of course, that's not to say that the bag of meat in your skull is incapable of experiencing things that we humans like to call spiritual, but your mind can only show you your mind. There is no 'external perspective', with or without drugs.

 

[perpetualdawn]

I think ultimately alf meneas is correct with his point ^, and it's important to keep that in mind. Well, it's important if you prescribe to a scientific view of reality, which in my opinion is our effort to see reality truly and clearly as we can, and is our best shot at understanding the universe we find ourselves in. Not that the scientific view is complete, or ever will be, but it's the best we have, and will always continue to reveal the nature of things.

However, I still think using the phrase "spiritual psychedelic" is still valid, as a shorthand for a substance which effectively puts your bag of meat in a state of mind that helps your mind see your mind etc.. in some kind of experience we can label as "spiritual/mystical"

...semantics I guess, but entertaining.

 

[alf meneas]

Aye, I went in heavy with my point of view of the universe, hope I didn't bruise anyone's ontology!
And with psychedelics, it's all semantics

 

[perpetualdawn]

word

 

[ten10]

4-ACO-DMT and mushrooms

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Ahh thanks man for reading. If you ever have any questions I always try to be full of answers.

I just read your ibogane trip report on erowid and enjoyed it greatly. it sounds like something i'll definetely do later in life, when I'll be ready

It was Shulgin or Hoffman or someone that said these experiences are already within us and it's true. Some psychedelics seem better at facilitating this than others....but ultimately a psychedelic cannot produce a spiritual experience...at best they can be said to facilitate one.

There's no such thing as a 'spiritual psychedelic', they're just substances that affect the functioning of the bag of meat in your skull.

Of course, that's not to say that the bag of meat in your skull is incapable of experiencing things that we humans like to call spiritual, but your mind can only show you your mind. There is no 'external perspective', with or without drugs.

 

[effingcustie]

There's no such thing as a 'spiritual psychedelic', they're just substances that affect the functioning of the bag of meat in your skull.

Of course, that's not to say that the bag of meat in your skull is incapable of experiencing things that we humans like to call spiritual, but your mind can only show you your mind. There is no 'external perspective', with or without drugs.

the mind can be a very spiritual thing.. meditation as taught by many "spiritual" teachers who have never used drugs is all about knowing your mind. i think in a way spirituality is about exploring the full extent of your mind, the deep dark (and light) corners that are filtered out in 'normal' consciousness. i think anyone who's taken psychedelics a few times would agree that the mind is a very powerful and complex thing that works in multitudes of ways that we are not conscious of. mastering this very powerful tool is what a lot of spiritual traditions are all about. my personal opinion is that the mind is also connected to a higher consciousness, or "god" if you want to call it that, but that's just me.


but as for the original question, for me the most spiritual psychedelic was probably ayahuasca. i think a lot of it has to do with intent, and may be related to the fact that it has such an established cultural tradition (and my first times doing it were in peru with a shaman whose life work is dedicated to ayahuasca). i think any psychedelic can facilitate a spiritual experience if you are focused on that intent, but taking it in the context of a thousands-of-years-old spiritual ceremonial tradition certainly helps with that.

i think it can depend on the person and what their particular spiritual interest is too. i used to find mushroom very spiritual, and thought of lsd as more of a recreational drug, but more recently i find the opposite. but that's mostly because i find mushrooms to be more "earthy" feeling and lsd very cosmic, and in recent years i've felt more drawn spiritually to a very universal crown-chakra type of consciousness.

smoking dmt to me was kind of spiritually eye-opening in that it showed me there are infinite realities at work behind the one we identify with (i think when i started smoking dmt was the turning point for me when i stopped identifying as an atheist), but it can be kind of hard to actually take anything of value from the experience.

edit: wow i wonder how many times i said "i think." sorry, just very cautious to be clear that these are just my opinions in this strange subjective realm

 

[Tryptamino]

i found iboga to be the most spiritual, but I would never repeat the experience.

The most spiritual psychedelics aside from that (ones that i would take again) would have to be mushrooms, ayahuasca, DMT, and mescaline. Even MDA to an extent. I've definitely had some very spiritual experiences on LSD, but it's very inconsistent in that respect as it's lack of physical side effects tends to make it easy to use as a party drug, regardless of whatever you try to use it for going into the trip.

Also I have a thing for natural psychedelics, and although I don't think that the fact that they're natural makes them "better" or "safer" I do believe that there is something about them that can illicit more spiritual experiences. The whole experience of consuming them can sort of put you in a more ritualistic, almost shamanistic mindset, and really give you the feel that the earth intended for you to comsume this plant and have these experiences. It's a kind of "back-to-the-beginning" kind of spirituality, which is very primal in nature.

And the the side effects from eating mushrooms or drinking the nasty, bitter, caustic cactus juice can contribute to your trip positively IMO. For example, when I trip during a period where I'm eating healthy and generally in a good state of mind, I have zero side effects from mushrooms or san pedro, no nausea, no stomach pain, no mindfuck, nothing. Just bliss. When I am eating like shit, not sleeping well, and are struggling with some personal issue, and then trip, the side effects are sort of a reminder of how I should be treating my body, and I get the iboga "mindfuck" where my issues just get pushed to the forefront where I have to deal with them (although that's with most tryptamines).

Just my opinion, IMO, natural psychs are the most spiritual, and there's why.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

This is a very key point. Intentions.

I like to use my own personal example of 5-MeO-DMT. Outside of the cultures in South America that use 5-MeO-DMT-containing plants....here is a (natural) drug that is completely polarizing to people. It seems to have an almost universally bad reputation...and I can understand why some people would see it as an evil sort of compound...here is this drug people are ordering off the internet that is said to be a 'hallucinogen' and so you have people smoking this compound for hallucinations and of course 5-MeO-DMT doesn't produce this sort of phenomenon instead the user finds the entire universe has been shattered by this 'stupid internet drug' they ordered. The experience is so powerful that it tends to cause panic in this who use it who are not prepared...and I would argue a vast majority of those who order 'legal hallucinogenic' chemicals off the internet are not prepared.

On the other hand, in my own use I know this to be what I consider a very 'Godly' compound...so much so that I have adopted rituals surrounding it's use, I don't bother with the rituals for any other compounds. And for me and my circle, it has a nearly 100% success rate of facilitating a ++++. The only thing different from me and my use, and the person seeking 'legal hallucinogens' is intent. My intent is to experience the mystical, or if I am sharing with others....to facilitate the mystical. No one ever is given 5-MeO-DMT from my hands who does not have the mystical intention.

i think a lot of it has to do with intent, and may be related to the fact that it has such an established cultural tradition (and my first times doing it were in peru with a shaman whose life work is dedicated to ayahuasca).

I am going to have another go with ibogaine in the coming days and I almost wonder if to some degree, my 1st go with it was a sort of fluke. I wanted to do it again right away, so incredible and moving and enjoyable it was to me. This time I have a lot to be shamed for in my own life and recent decisions and I wonder if iboga is going to chew me up alive this time. Well, I will spend my time preparing for it. At least I don't have a fear of the unknown like last time. I was so scared to swallow the ibogaine as the descriptions of it made me absolutely fear it. I don't have that fear now, just left wondering why it seemed to behave so differently for me. Then again, it is the national treasure of Gabon. Certainly the people who practice bwiti don't find iboga unpleasant. Maybe we just have unique tastes?

i found iboga to be the most spiritual, but I would never repeat the experience.....When I am eating like shit, not sleeping well, and are struggling with some personal issue, and then trip, the side effects are sort of a reminder of how I should be treating my body, and I get the iboga "mindfuck" where my issues just get pushed to the forefront where I have to deal with them (although that's with most tryptamines).

Just my opinion, IMO, natural psychs are the most spiritual, and there's why.

 

[tryptamine-tripper]

People having spiritual experiences on mushrooms doesn't mean they are fooling themselves with the placebo effect just because your experience doesn't line up.

I didn't mean to say they're fooling themselves, and certainly not that it's placebo, I just can't help but think that a part of why many find mushrooms to be more spiritual lies in the common belief that they are/will be...I mean to a large extent we create our own trips, so preconceptions held about any particular psychedelic definitely influence how taking it feels. Really I think a spiritual experience is possible on almost any psychedelic in particular sets/settings, even though I do find certain psychedelics to have headspaces with more mysticality.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I always like to believe DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenine are literally spiritual neurotransmitters and since psilocin is for all practical purposes DMT with just an extra O, or a positional isomer of bufotenine....it can be allowed to pass for a endogenous neurotransmitter in my book. Sorta endogenous aspect separates the DMT family from the others in my book.