Moral arguments for and against Dealing Drugs?

[JoshLobbs]

Thank you all for such an interesting conversation, I'm sorry I haven't been more talkative but work stuf got in the way.

After hearing all of your points I think I can give an informed opinion on the morality of dealing.

I think it's a morally neutral activity to sell drugs to adults who have enough self determination and knowledge of what you are selling to make their own decisions. Informed consenting adults are the market to shoot for imo.

 

[plumbus-nine]

As I've gotten older I've come to look down on local dealers of certain substances. Mainly, opioids, cocaine, other types of pills, and crack. Pretty much everything but weed. I feel like it's bad for the community and they're not good people because they're willing to profit off the suffering of their own kind.

Same here, but primarily so from looking at the average customer of said substances. I don't mind stims, but I loathe the usual cocaine or meth user. Oh, you forgot to mention lysgergamides and shrooms etc. the big heterogen yet somehow homogenous category of hallucinogens and these tend to be maybe the best example for that I like the substances but not what the average teenage customer makes out of them (take to excess at the local rave; guess in a world where raves were legitimate drug versions of the German Oktoberfescht I'd see stuff differently but unfortunately this isn't the case. Yeah, these guys are bad for the community, nobody would bother with demonizing microdoses but somehow they do demonize "abuse" of prescription stims by students which would fit nicely into a success oriented society. Maybe these guys find these students to gain an unfair advance, are jealous of not having had the options, or whatever.

Full agree to @Ghost fart. It's just a business, selling tools for the mind.

 

[Mjäll]

Supplying or distributing goods in demand seems to me like a moral good. Perhaps not as strikingly good as sacrificing your own life to save a baby or something, but clearly good rather than bad.

As i wrote this, i realized that the very word "goods" indeed seems to imply that it should reasonably be considered good to sell them. One may disagree that drugs are goods (or goodies, if you will) but then again one may disagree on many matters of taste without changing the fundamental nature of goods. No-one ever buys all the goods.

 

[Juniper Bruhmomentius]

How about we get the suicidal people who therapy didnt help or whatever, on pharmaceuticals....

Now, wheres my Nobel?

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Supplying or distributing goods in demand seems to me like a moral good. Perhaps not as strikingly good as sacrificing your own life to save a baby or something, but clearly good rather than bad.

As i wrote this, i realized that the very word "goods" indeed seems to imply that it should reasonably be considered good to sell them. One may disagree that drugs are goods (or goodies, if you will) but then again one may disagree on many matters of taste without changing the fundamental nature of goods. No-one ever buys all the goods.

It would be a moral good, and mostly is, but you forget dynamite and AK 47s.

I, like you, dislike the fact that we use prohibition for social control.

We should not forget the good prohibitions while advocating for a saner reply than a self serving Drug War against our children.

Prohibitions of anything, like limits to our freedom of speech, should be used as little as possible.

Given the dangerous and lethal drugs out there, I think some limits and prohibitions are required, but the fewer the better.

Those goods cannot just be put in anyone's shopping cart.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

How about we get the suicidal people who therapy didnt help or whatever, on pharmaceuticals....

Now, wheres my Nobel?

If you are talking of the successes they are having with the psychedelic drugs on the various conditions they are helping cure, then yes, a Nobel is in order.

The psychiatric industry and benevolent doctors are doing cartwheels now that there handcuffs are off.

Cures are escalating.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Thank you all for such an interesting conversation, I'm sorry I haven't been more talkative but work stuf got in the way.

After hearing all of your points I think I can give an informed opinion on the morality of dealing.

I think it's a morally neutral activity to sell drugs to adults who have enough self determination and knowledge of what you are selling to make their own decisions. Informed consenting adults are the market to shoot for imo.

I would question morally neutral.

New drugs are being formulated daily.

Toxicity to humans is what they seek, and pushers do not mind killing human Guinee pigs to find the right formula that takes over the market.

If you add certified to you thesis, then you could be righter.

Everything is duality and all we can do is hope the pushers, the governments of the world, do a better job and stop killing us by design.

Especially some racist white governments with black populations.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

We all have a choice do drugs or don't we fuck our lives up not the dealer

Yes, but most of us are too young to make an informed choice, --- because we generally default to whatever custom us in the society we rely on for our lives.

We are born mimics and do not really have an intelligent choice offered.

Laws for drugs should be put to let those who have reached the age of reason be as free as possible, with guidance and education, while protecting fiercely those who cannot yet make a free and informed choice.

Push to educated adults and stand behind your product, but touch my children and hurt them, and I will fucking kill you, if you are a pusher.

Regards
DL

 

[Mjäll]

It would be a moral good, and mostly is, but you forget dynamite and AK 47s.

I, like you, dislike the fact that we use prohibition for social control.

We should not forget the good prohibitions while advocating for a saner reply than a self serving Drug War against our children.

Prohibitions of anything, like limits to our freedom of speech, should be used as little as possible.

Given the dangerous and lethal drugs out there, I think some limits and prohibitions are required, but the fewer the better.

Those goods cannot just be put in anyone's shopping cart.

Regards
DL

Guns are a tricky question, and heavier weaponry more so.

I'm a proponent of legal guns, so i didn't exactly forget them. The right to tools for self defense belongs to basic freedoms in my view.

Regarding drugs, i find any restrictions and regulations to be indefensible. It's clearly a matter of personal responsibility.

 

[stardust10]

Generally I don't have an issue with dealers as long as their products clean, they don't punt to kids, and only punt certain drugs like crack and heroin to people who already use. Definitely not advertising to people who are tryin to get/stay clean. Sadly it doesn't tend to go that way though. They have vulnerable kids at 10, 12 transporting and selling for a free bit of weed, grooming their future clients, disgusting people like that profiting at their own community's expense and instilling fear in people so that nobody can do anything about it unless you want stabbed or shot or something. The police used to drive by all the time and don't seem to bat an eye...hmmm strange. War on drugs is really effective. (Not)

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

But obviously if any of that bad shit is happening it's not moral.

So...if I were writing an essay supporting drug dealing as a moral activity I believe I could sell the argument, but only with the caveat that any immoral activities that happen through illicit drug dealing/or with the use of illicit drug money is actually the government's fault because they could regulate drugs and make sure they are sold without anything bad going down in the process.

To ask governments who already control the black market economy, --- and milk us price wise, --- to give up their illicit activities and share their illegal gains with us, --- would only get you laugher my friend.

You also forget the immoral alcohol and tobacco lobbies and their huge contributions to our Government's and Drug Lords coffers.

As a moralist, I like such issues, but whenever I ask for a moral discussion on religious and such other issues, most bow out.

I think it is because people are tied too hard to their tribes. Especially the right wing tribes.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Guns are a tricky question, and heavier weaponry more so.

I'm a proponent of legal guns, so i didn't exactly forget them. The right to tools for self defense belongs to basic freedoms in my view.

Regarding drugs, i find any restrictions and regulations to be indefensible. It's clearly a matter of personal responsibility.

In defence, short thinker.

Regulations that include the protection of children, whom we cannot protect under an open system would defend the side of restrictions, even if slightly invasive.

The public good demands this.

Regards
DL

 

[yubacity]

Yes, but most of us are too young to make an informed choice, --- because we generally default to whatever custom us in the society we rely on for our lives.

We are born mimics and do not really have an intelligent choice offered.

Laws for drugs should be put to let those who have reached the age of reason be as free as possible, with guidance and education, while protecting fiercely those who cannot yet make a free and informed choice.

Push to educated adults and stand behind your product, but touch my children and hurt them, and I will fucking kill you, if you are a pusher.

Regards
DL

I hear you i would not want a dealer selling to kids but me as a 15-year-old used to buy crank from adult dealers so it does happen. The answer would be have all drugs legalized use the tax money collected to help addicts get rehab and other help but that will not happen

 

[nznity]

Depends on the drug.

I definitely sold some shit when I was younger. Started off with weed, opiates and sometimes cocaine. Nothing but negativity came from it. Then later in life I started moving psychedelics and empathogens, which brought about a completely different way of life with none of the same negativity that came along…

But over time I felt bad even selling those, mainly because I felt an experience so profound shouldn’t be something people should pay for. So nowadays I help out the people I can (for free) and karma rewards me properly.

-GC

This 100%

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

It is moral. It is okay. If you want to sell, and someone wants to buy, then make the deal. Only winners there.

Editing: Okay, no selling to kids, of course! But selling to adults is perfectly fine.

What if the buyer is a 12 year old who is already half drunk your shit is adulterated and might kill him?

If you say that is ok, check with any 12 year old.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I hear you i would not want a dealer selling to kids but me as a 15-year-old used to buy crank from adult dealers so it does happen. The answer would be have all drugs legalized use the tax money collected to help addicts get rehab and other help but that will not happen

I agree with all but your last.

The world is getting fed up with political Drug Lords who profit with both hands.

People are getting fed up of being treated like fools.

Regards
DL

 

[Mjäll]

In defence, short thinker.

Regulations that include the protection of children, whom we cannot protect under an open system would defend the side of restrictions, even if slightly invasive.

The public good demands this.

Regards
DL

I don't understand your first sentence.

I agree that children should have some legal protection that invades on the principle of freedom. For example, it is defensible to have an age limit on drugs and weapons, even if it becomes arbitrary.

I disagree that children can't be protected under an open system, but i may be making an overly literal interpretation here.

 

[yubacity]

I agree with all but your last.

The world is getting fed up with political Drug Lords who profit with both hands.

People are getting fed up of being treated like fools.

Regards
DL

So what's the answer the Portugal way where you decriminalize drugs and the money saved in policing going into helping addicts . I dont mind either way but would love to be able to walk into a cocaine parlor after a few drinks in the pub and stay in the parlor talking shit until a few days later

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

So what's the answer the Portugal way where you decriminalize drugs and the money saved in policing going into helping addicts . I dont mind either way but would love to be able to walk into a cocaine parlor after a few drinks in the pub and stay in the parlor talking shit until a few days later

Push over buddy.

I cook a good toke of crack to change the taste of the cannabis that follows.

Too bad you are so far away.

Regards
DL

 

[yubacity]

Push over buddy.

I cook a good toke of crack to change the taste of the cannabis that follows.

Too bad you are so far away.

Regards
DL

Crack has to be included cant have coke and not cook some crack and some brown for the comedown. Loads of my mates don't know i on heroin so they are all depressed when the crack finished I would have a little chuckle to myself thinking I'm getting home and smoking some brown and having a good sleep