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Modern MDMA precursor is chiral (R) hence 'wrong'

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clubcard

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Methyl PMK-glycidate is the most popular MDMA precursor but produces (R)MDMA. After a lot of head-scratching, I was trying to work out why on one hand pills with 300mg+ of MDMA are regularly seized and yet users state that modern pills are 'wrong'. The route does not proceed via PMK; in fact, the synthesis is a single step. The reason why the EPMKG is chiral is that it is synthesized using a naturally occurring amino-acid.

Now there are several compounds that produce effects that are almost indistinguishable from MDMA and some of them are legal in most nations.

- (S) α-methyltryptamine (the (R) isomer is the hallucinogenic isomer so if you resolve this compound, you get 2 different products)
- 7-methyl-α-ethyltryptamine
- (S) 7,α-dimethyltryptamine (the (R) isomer is the hallucinogenic isomer so if you resolve this compound, you get 2 different products)
- 2:1 ratio of p/m aminorex
-m-methoxy-p-ethyl amphetamine

I have tried both the racemate & resolved isomers of AMT which is what got me interested in the subject. The 7-methyl moiety on the indole increases the serotonin release by an order of magnitude. Back in the 1960s AET and a series of related compounds were patented as antidepressants. The 7-methyl indole precursor is rather costly.

I do apologize for being somewhat vague, this was stuff I looked at 9 or 10 years ago. There are more but the synthetic complexity means they aren't great targets. I would be prepared to bet that p-Me phenmetrazine will have similar activity. Now I seem to recall a paper on methylphenidate analogues that were also seratonogenic. If memory serves the piperidine ring is a replaced by a pyrrolidine (1 carbon less) and the aromatic has a p-Me.
 
You are vague indeed. As a ex-MDMA user I have been following the threads on the lacking XTC these days. You propose its (r)MDMA.

And then list some compounds with supposed simular effect's. Which except PM(M)A. Is m-methoxy-p-ethyl amphetamine close to that or is this a wrong guess on my side.

I never saw the others ever mentioned in a pill analysis by a lab.

So curious about the connection between these interesting compounds and (r)MDMA.
 
If MehMDMA is r-isomer a solution of it should show optical rotation. Racemic MDMA will not. This could be verified using a polarimeter.
 
charlz said:
If MehMDMA is r-isomer a solution of it should show optical rotation. Racemic MDMA will not. This could be verified using a polarimeter.
Click to expand...

That would be Page 152 from 'Handbook of Forensic Drug Analysis'.? Yes you can but how many labs have polarimetry instrumentation? Not many. While it's simple to get GC-MS & NMR data from commercial instrumental labs, optical activity simply isn't called for. It's also rather costly. I suggest way to test is by forming a chiral addition salt such as (1R)-(−)-10-Camphorsulfonic acid. I don't know if something simple like tartaric acid would be appropriate.Maybe others? Thoughts?
 
Drugs Data (Ecstasy Data) and Energy Control cannot and do not test for polarity. I have asked both as part of our ongoing research in the other thread.
 
Finally, this may explain what we've known for a while now (see the thread, What Is Wrong With The MDMA Currently Available?).

Handheld, manual, analog polarimeters are inexpensive to buy. Not sure if they are a suspicious thing to buy or not, though.

The R-MDMA hypothesis sounds highly plausible to me. Safrole can be had from nutmeg oil in minor percentages. Doing so will result in racemic 50:50 (d/l) MDMA hydrochloride, which quite magical. It will exhibit zero degrees of optical rotation if you do it right.
 
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I've suggested using a polarimeter to either prove/disprove and until someone does it it remains an unanswered possibility.this has all been discussed in the what's wrong with mdma today thread.as for the pmk glycidate being or not being chiral
once decomposed into mdp2p AND PURIFIED it no longer matters. I'm guessing that purification is being skipped or a new route is being used
 
clubcard said:
Methyl PMK-glycidate is the most popular MDMA precursor but produces (R)MDMA. After a lot of head-scratching, I was trying to work out why on one hand pills with 300mg+ of MDMA are regularly seized and yet users state that modern pills are 'wrong'. The route does not proceed via PMK; in fact, the synthesis is a single step. The reason why the EPMKG is chiral is that it is synthesized using a naturally occurring amino-acid.
Click to expand...

Can you explain how this single step chemistry from PMK Glycidate to MDMA only involves reaction intermediates sp3 (tetrahedrally) hybridized at the side chain 2 position, (beta to the phenyl), the position of the only chiral centre in MDMA, and the only way chirality in PMK glycidate can end up being preserved in the resulting MDMA????

The generally discovered clandestine reaction pathways sometimes have one pot multiple step from glycidate but these invariably involve several sp2 hybridized non isolated intermediates like ketones and imines.
 
I think the one pot method is just a theory and doesn't actually exist.if anyone knows this one pot recipe
please inform the rest of us.
 
Just use the Wacker oxidation of terminal olefins to methyl ketones using Palladium salt and benzoquinone with safrole as the substrate.
 
draculic acid69 said:
I think the one pot method is just a theory and doesn't actually exist.if anyone knows this one pot recipe
please inform the rest of us.
Click to expand...
A one pot reaction scheme is pretty obvious, and the steps are acid catalysed hydrolysis and decarboxylation of PMK glycidate to PMK then methylamine and reduction of the imine with cat H2, all compatible with doing it in one pot. The forensic detection of M-ALPHA-HMCA in some MDMA tells us that use of one pot or sloppy reaction telescoping is going on to an extent. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.forsciint.2020.110332

Whether it is done on a significant level is another question. On scale the most expensive thing it is the reduction catalyst and it is easy to break it with impure materials so generally one would expect people to be careful not to break the expensive catalyst so not run impure PMK into the reduction step.

Maybe Clubcard can tell us what the supposed reaction scheme is that not only gives MDMA from glycidate but somehow transfers the chirality in the starting PMK glycidate to the resulting MDMA?
 
I can see how it can be done in one pot with no distillation or purification but that's just soooooo sloppy and half assed that it's no wonder it's making shitty product that doesn't perform as it's supposed to.this is why meh needs to be tested for route specific impurities to determine how it's made.is meh all made the same way or is meh made by a variety of methods
 
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Anyone with the skill and understanding to make mdma will definitely understand that by doing a sloppy unpurified one pot rxn it's a recipe for shittyness.
 
vecktor said:
A one pot reaction scheme is pretty obvious, and the steps are acid catalysed hydrolysis and decarboxylation of PMK glycidate to PMK then methylamine and reduction of the imine with cat H2, all compatible with doing it in one pot. The forensic detection of M-ALPHA-HMCA in some MDMA tells us that use of one pot or sloppy reaction telescoping is going on to an extent. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.forsciint.2020.110332

Whether it is done on a significant level is another question. On scale the most expensive thing it is the reduction catalyst and it is easy to break it with impure materials so generally one would expect people to be careful not to break the expensive catalyst so not run impure PMK into the reduction step.

Maybe Clubcard can tell us what the supposed reaction scheme is that not only gives MDMA from glycidate but somehow transfers the chirality in the starting PMK glycidate to the resulting MDMA?
Click to expand...
I don't think there is a way to transfer chiralityity.all of the following reactions create racemic product.that was one of the major talking points among the scientific community from breaking bad. Q:how does Walter get pure d meth and not racemic meth using the P2P method? A: you can't, science doesn't have the answer other than it made for good tv.
 
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