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Methamphetamine: really not such a bad drug

AA357 said:
And you can bet your ass that a 100-200mg of MDMA (a standard dose of what is considered a 'soft drug' by many) will have a much harder impact on your brain chemistry than a therapeutic dose of meth.
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I think it's worthwhile to quote this sentence from AA357 as it is my opinion that it is not informative enough to be clear and it could be interpreted in multiple ways.

Yes, taking 100-200mg of MDMA (and some pills now are pressed with not very responsible 270-280mg dosages) is going to cause a stronger high than a therapeutic dose of D-Methamphetamine (around 20mg per day), and by stronger high I mean a higher release of the 3 neurotransmitters Adrenaline, Dopamine and Serotonine, resulting in higher levels of CNS stimulation.
MDMA at recreational dosages will also temporarily inhibit activity of the enzyme called Tryptophan hydroxylase (TPH), that is necessary to make Serotonin starting from the amino acid Tryptophan.
MDMA though, is not directly neurotoxic (ofcourse one could argue that if you overdose the increase in body temperature might kill off some neurons), and the activity of the enzyme will be restored in a few days, usually in a week or so.

This means that one will have a stronger high and more of a harsh comedown from (a recreational dose of) MDMA if compared to (a therapeutic dose of) Meth , but there will be no long term consequences with the former.
Meth though, will be neurotoxic, and I think the issue with neurotoxicity is that, whether or not one can form new neurons, one is losing neurons that are networked to form his brain, meaning skills, memories etc. and some of this things may be partially lost.
 
Phobos said:
I think it's worthwhile to quote this sentence from AA357 as it is my opinion that it is not informative enough to be clear and it could be interpreted in multiple ways.

Yes, taking 100-200mg of MDMA (and some pills now are pressed with not very responsible 270-280mg dosages) is going to cause a stronger high than a therapeutic dose of D-Methamphetamine (around 20mg per day), and by stronger high I mean a higher release of the 3 neurotransmitters Adrenaline, Dopamine and Serotonine, resulting in higher levels of CNS stimulation.
MDMA at recreational dosages will also temporarily inhibit activity of the enzyme called Tryptophan hydroxylase (TPH), that is necessary to make Serotonin starting from the amino acid Tryptophan.
MDMA though, is not directly neurotoxic (ofcourse one could argue that if you overdose the increase in body temperature might kill off some neurons), and the activity of the enzyme will be restored in a few days, usually in a week or so.

This means that one will have a stronger high and more of a harsh comedown from (a recreational dose of) MDMA if compared to (a therapeutic dose of) Meth , but there will be no long term consequences with the former.
Meth though, will be neurotoxic, and I think the issue with neurotoxicity is that, whether or not one can form new neurons, one is losing neurons that are networked to form his brain, meaning skills, memories etc. and some of this things may be partially lost.
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I appreciate what you have to say regarding Methamphetamine, but it's my belief, based upon evidence that I've combed through, that he neurotoxic nature of Methamphetamine can be a little bit overstated. For say, casual users of Methamphetamine, who used every once in a while and not to extreme excess, the neurotoxic qualities of Methamphetamine should not be much more different than non-methylated Amphetamine.

I just think it's important to distinguish between the harm done through excessive usage and binges and those who might use Methamphetamine occasionally. Although I'm in agreement that the neurotoxic nature of the drug is worth mentioning and should be understood by anyone who chooses to use the drug.
 
AA357 said:
I would like to share my views and experiences on the benefits of responsible, non-recreational use of methamphetamine.
This drug has a very bad reputation. Society seems to view it as on par with crack: the preserve of the lowest, most depraved individuals on the planet. It is shunned by the vast majority of experimental and recreational drug users (many of whom use cocaine and MDMA, which IMO are way more destructive).
I accept that this drug is neurotoxic and that it has the capacity to seriously F you up. Most people would do well to stay away from it. That said; if you are reasonably intelligent, health-conscious and have the self-control to stick to therapeutic dosages, then it can be very
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Get a script for Desoxyn, fill it, and use it appropriately. Do not use it to excess. 5mg methamphetamine hydrochloride. Barbiturates (as a muscle relaxant) work well in sub-clinical dosages to reduce the bruxism. Do not use street meth.

I personally dislike all but the stimulant qualities of *amphetamine. I prefer modafinil.
 
Keif' Richards said:
Walking around town, it's very easy to spot Meth Ghouls. I thought junkies were easy to spot. I've always had a good radar for comrades, but the Meth Ghouls are so easily identified that there's no denying it.
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Morphine? Really? I could never tell someone had taken it. Even if I were sober as a judge. Sure, the, erm, after-effects of having taken it by vein are visible, and so are the signs of a Herculean dose, but aside from that...
 
honeywhite said:
Morphine? Really? I could never tell someone had taken it. Even if I were sober as a judge. Sure, the, erm, after-effects of having taken it by vein are visible, and so are the signs of a Herculean dose, but aside from that...
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I see what you're saying Honeywhite, but I think there's a little bit of confusion regarding what we're talking about. We're not necessarily discussing the acute effects of these drugs. We're discussing long-term (chronic) use and how that seems to effect the person's appearance and personality. So, yes, you can definitely tell when someone is very high on Opioids. You can definitely tell when someone is very high on Amphetamines, but the point I'm trying to make is that the chronic usage of both of these drugs tend to induce long-lasting effects on appearance such as pallor (white skin), sunken, non-responsive eyes etc.

I was saying that I have a good radar for spotting chronic Opioid users around town. Not everyone would be able to identify these people, but I'm not implying that it's some sort of super power. When involved in "the scene" as it were, you get acquainted with the both the subtle and not-so-subtle effects of chronic Opioid use.

The point that I was trying to make is that just about anyone could spot a Meth Ghoul. They are just so intensely ravaged by the drug that it can be undeniable. To spot an Opioid user would require a little bit more experience.

I understand that you're prescribed Methamphetamine and Barbiturates, but an important point to familiarize yourself with, is that in this day and age, with all of the hysteria surrounding over-prescribing of dangerous substances, any PsyD or PCP who takes their job seriously would look at the twin prescription of Meth and Barbiturates as irresponsible. I mean, sure, there are severely debilitating issues in life that might, maybe require these specific substances, but to a person who is basically just looking for a buzz and to treat their anxiety, this duel prescription would be seen as irresponsible.

I'm not getting down on you at all man. A lot of us are addicts, but you've admitted yourself that you take up to 15 times the prescribed dosage of your Barbiturates. If your prescriber knew this, there's no way that he could ethically continue these prescriptions. In a way, this circular logic proves my point. These drugs are dangerous to prescribe and you have basically demonstrated that fact verbatim. I think you're lucky, but you're prescriber clearly is not taking enough time to evaluate your situation, because I feel like your situation would probably fall apart quickly under some direct questioning.

I'm not judging you. I am a realist and I'm telling you how it is. I think your doc is a quack for prescribing these medicines and not making any attempt to verify that you're using the medications correctly. You're lucky to have the doctor that you do. He or she is like the holy grail for those who routinely try to make doctors for their drugs.
 
Ofcourse it would be great to be able to always get pharma grade drugs, but I think in the case of street meth, an anhydrous acetone wash should take away most impurities and make it much safer to consume.
 
Keif' Richards said:
The point that I was trying to make is that just about anyone could spot a Meth Ghoul. They are just so intensely ravaged by the drug that it can be undeniable. To spot an Opioid user would require a little bit more experience.

I understand that you're prescribed Methamphetamine and Barbiturates, but an important point to familiarize yourself with, is that in this day and age, with all of the hysteria surrounding over-prescribing of dangerous substances, any PsyD or PCP who takes their job seriously would look at the twin prescription of Meth and Barbiturates as irresponsible. I mean, sure, there are severely debilitating issues in life that might, maybe require these specific substances, but to a person who is basically just looking for a buzz and to treat their anxiety, this duel prescription would be seen as irresponsible.
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That's what I was (trying to) say. For a brief, two-year period in my life, I was prescribed Desoxyn. It did the job (side effects, supra) but I was unsatisfied. I did not LIKE the buzz. I wanted something to keep me awake and not to mess with my head. I asked for something else.

Modafinil accomplished that. It still accomplishes that. Yes, I have become psychologically dependent on it, like I have become dependent on my morning coffee.

Opiates - never been able to spot a smackie unless they wore short sleeves. Talking chronic use here. Day by day use of 40mgm. or more morphine equivalent. If they were a HOMELESS smackie, sure, but I'd be seeing the effects of homelessness rather than the effects of pure morphine.

As for the barbs, we're flogging a dead horse. I have once taken a very large dose of them. Aside from that it's my prescribed Phenemal, or Nembutal, or Amytal skilfully acquired from a veterinary clinic. I will never again take a large dose of them.

But this thread is about methamphetamine and I strongly---and I mean strongly---suggest the use of stable doses of pharmaceutical tablets. It is a Schedule II drug on par with morphine in the US (or am I wrong?). I warn strenuously against the use of street "ice", "Tina", "shabu", or "Philopon" (which is in fact a brand name and some lawyers should be getting in touch!) I warn strenuously for CONSISTENT doses. 5mg of pure m-amph or 10 should be enough unless you're a horse and not a man.
 
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Meth is a dark drug that turns people into lunatics. Just because you use meth a few times and haven’t become lost yet means nothing.
 
I've found that it doesn't turn anyone into anything. We all have a dark side no matter how good we may be or seem. I smokes 2 grams a day for 2 years straight and only the people I smoked with ever knew I was using. It definitely plays to your dark side, but it doesn't force you to do anything. The drug itself doesn't really do much to the psyche, it's the malnutrition and sleep deprivation
 
Funny thing about meth, after spending the last nine months on it every day . . .

MOST of the time, you're fine, and nobody can even tell you're on it.

And then every once in a while you have a delusion. You of course don't know that's what it is, or it wouldn't be a delusion. It doesn't have to be sinister or classically "paranoid" either. It doesn't even strike you as a big deal.

You just happen to know exactly how your neighbors are related, and who all the alts in the lounge are. It turns out everyone who posts there is just an alt of ¢-Dugz. Makes perfect sense, until you finally get some sleep, and wonder what the fuck you were thinking.

I have a friend on another board who could suddenly read a code in "new member introductions".

So, I'm not talking about seeing "shadow people" or hallucinating. I'm talking about boring ol' delusions. Mini-psychoses.

I think it's pretty harmless, if you're aware it can happen and aren't naturally suspicious, but, you need to be aware it can happen. And it doesn't take chronic use or long-time use to manifest.

YOU HAVE TO SLEEP SOMETIME. And you need to eat. Drink some water. And really, take a shower every 24 hours. You need it.
 
^^^ this exactly.

The guy I used to buy off of never wore a shirt, one day I was about 8 days in went to go re-up, when I get there he's got a shirt on I totally flipped the fuck out, I told him to lift his damn shirt up and show me that fucking wire, I swore up and down he was setting me up(he wasn't). I held a gun to his head and swore to God is kill him if he didn't lift his shirt, when he did no wire. Went from 100 to everything's normal. Sleep deprivation will make you batshit crazy. Like scrofula said usually your fine, no one would ever know, but sometimes you totally lose it. Sleep deprivation is no joke.
 
At this point, as opposed to closing this, I'm shifting it over to Drug Culture. I think we've gotten past the matter of acute Harm Reduction and we're more just having an ongoing discussion. I just got up this morning and felt like we should probably have a little bit more room open on our front page for potentially serious threads. No offense to anyone or anything discussed heretofore in this thread.

Basic Drug Discussion
 
bptubbs said:
^^^ this exactly.

The guy I used to buy off of never wore a shirt, one day I was about 8 days in went to go re-up, when I get there he's got a shirt on I totally flipped the fuck out, I told him to lift his damn shirt up and show me that fucking wire, I swore up and down he was setting me up(he wasn't). I held a gun to his head and swore to God is kill him if he didn't lift his shirt, when he did no wire. Went from 100 to everything's normal. Sleep deprivation will make you batshit crazy. Like scrofula said usually your fine, no one would ever know, but sometimes you totally lose it. Sleep deprivation is no joke.
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That's crazy but I am not surprised.

I've had sleep deprivation, not from drugs, for 1-2 or 3 days, and even that messes you up.
 
Yeah I'm a long time insomnia, I can function very well with no sleep until about day 4 or 5 then that switch gets flipped and I'm totally delirious or psychotic
 
Without meth I'm a goddam wreck after 36 hours. I like my sleep.

The allure of meth is that the sleeplessness is smooth. It's not like caffeine, where you're awake, but your head is throbbing and your jaws are tight. After all, it works on the same systems modafinil does. You don't plan for it, you just realize you've been awake for 72 hours, and feel fine to take another 24--the auditory hallucinations become routine, after all.

But those waste products are still building up in your brain, and they have to get cleaned out. And so without warning you'll get one of those two-hour meth naps, sometimes right after a hit even. Best to do it on your own terms in a chair, and not the driver's seat.
 
Very true. It's a scary thing to be driving one minute, then sitting in a field dazed and confused
 
I think it might vary from person to person but meth has never been a problem for me. I've been using for about 5 years, going off it every few months for about a month but sometimes as long as three months just to kind of flush my system. Generally I do lines and will take a smoke a few times a week. It absolutely takes a toll on the body but I try to stay as healthy as possible. Exercise, maintain a healthy weight and eat the healthiest foods possible. I also try to not be up for more than 3/4 days at a time.

I used to be a heroine addict and meth hasn't even come close in creating the same kind of dependency, I think the minute that happens I'll bid ye olde crystal adieu for good.
 
LineFriend said:
I think it might vary from person to person but meth has never been a problem for me. I've been using for about 5 years, going off it every few months for about a month but sometimes as long as three months just to kind of flush my system. Generally I do lines and will take a smoke a few times a week. It absolutely takes a toll on the body but I try to stay as healthy as possible. Exercise, maintain a healthy weight and eat the healthiest foods possible. I also try to not be up for more than 3/4 days at a time.

I used to be a heroine addict and meth hasn't even come close in creating the same kind of dependency, I think the minute that happens I'll bid ye olde crystal adieu for good.
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I have used amphetamine and little meth over 10 years and never have had dependency problem. Thing is I get so hypersexual that I download and watch porn for 3 days without sleep or if its possible I visit 10 different escorts and have sex for 4 hours with each one, how can you get addicted to drug like that? I just stop and don't touch it for 1-35 months. Last time I used amphetamine and meth for 2 months 4 days runs and 3 days break for opioid WD's, only times when I think about doing them is when I watch porn, thats the only time that I ever have had "cravings" toward amhpetamines. I got so tired of watching porn that I don't even want to think about amphetamines. For some people amphetamines are the most addicting drug. I get addicted only to drugs that make regular life better, I mean that I can do stuff like normally, with stimulants it's out of question, its only about porn and sex, can't do anything other. Opioids and pregabalin are the addictive drugs for me, I never watch porn or have sex while on them.

I've only snorted and plugged amphetmaines, few times I've smoked crystal, it's nice experience, but nothing that I have feeling to do again.
 
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That's where the psychosis comes In, from the sleep deprivation, not the meth
 
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