Stimulants Methamphetamine Harm Reduction

[Twackademy]

Hi everyone!

I'm a long time reader of BL, first time poster, finally!

I've been using CRYSTAL METH for 4 years now to enhance normal recreational activity experiences.
I'm no noob to to this stuff and I am well aware that it can create mental dependence, alter brain chemistry, induce psychosis etc. I'd like to further my knowledge in Harm Reduction.

I do relatively small doses via insufflation once or twice a month over a weekend then crash, and have ABSOLUTELY no desire to smoke or inject for a "rush".
I like the effects I get and now I am wanting to fine tune my harm reduction regimen as much as possible.
I have never had the desire nor intention to became a daily user or regular user, I know that everyone says this "in the beginning", but when the feeling of depression kicks in due to what I assume is lack of dopamine or other brain chemicals, I flush my stash and take AT LEAST a month off to curb dependency, and I don't seek it again until an activity comes up that sounds like it'd be fun on METH.

I have a vague understanding of how METH plays with my brain chemistry to deliver the feeling of being stimulated and that it's not meant to be a high that I should always feel, much like one shouldn't always be drunk or stoned. I'd like to further my understanding of how METH interacts with the brain and body too, if anyone drop some insightful knowledge in laymans terms because I've tried reading scientific reports and even on METH I can't truly comprehend the results of the study.
Since I am hoping for relatively scientific advice/knowledge, I will add that I do indeed have a childhood diagnosis of both ADD and ADHD, I haven't been on Concerta in over 10 years due to discontinuing treatment in high school. I am now 28.

Harm Reduction Techniques I Already do :
1. One Teaspoon of 100% Mucuna Pruriens Powder in my morning Whey protein shake every day because it is supposed to be a pre-cursor to Dopamine & I take a daily multivitamin ( https://www.walmart.com/ip/Equate-O...ineral-Supplement-Tablets-200-Count/10324918I) I do both of these everyday on a binge too.

2. I drink beer throughout my weekend binges, but for every 2 beers that I have I drink both a glass of water & a 16 oz Body Armour for electrolytes. I alternate between beers.

3. I never re-dose compulsively(anymore), I learned and appreciated early on that less is more and now I re-dose every 6-10 hours depending on the batch potency and how I feel.

4. I DO NOT use with anyone else, period. I know others in my social circle who use and they feed off of each other's lack of will power and always encourage one another to compulsively re-dose WAY too early like it's fucking cocaine, and I'm not trying to bond with anyone with METH in this way. No one knows that I take a line in private when needed and that's that.

5. Before any re-dose, if available I shower & brush my teeth, eat a solid meal, smoke a cigarette and THEN I re-dose. Like a ritual, every time.

6. I have learned the hard way(twice) that after being awake for more than 48 hours, cannabis and even CBD bud WILL induce a VERY bad experience for me and not the correct way for me to induce the comedown.

7. I have also learned the hard way that after 60 hours, shit gets real fucking weird. So if I find myself on a binge, at the 50 hour mark I pop 0.5 mg of Xanax with 10 mg of Melatonin, meditate for 30 minutes, and then pop another 0.5 mg of Xanax with 10 mg of Melatonin. Like clockwork, I'm out within 1 hour. This is all after ceasing alcohol use for at least 1 hour.

8. I NEVER operate a vehicle, go to work, or make any major life decisions while under the influence.

9. I currently use the bleach test to test my METH and if it doesn't dissolve like it's supposed to then down the toilet it goes, and I inform my plug which usually results in an apology as well as a refund/replacement.
If the product fails again, I never go to that person again. In the beginning I had a very good connected plug/friend with reliable potency/cut, he actually taught me to appreciate the high for what it is, what it does, and to understand how it affects the human body/brain. Unfortunately he disappeared last year, he's connected to the cartel so he could have been locked up, murdered, etc. So I'm still trying to land a new reliable plug.

10. I finally invested in a very accurate mg scale so I can weigh my doses and begin toying with dosage vs. effect / establish my baseline tolerance.

These are the techniques that I've basically made my "rule book" and I follow them religiously.
In my opinion, if i'm going to use such a strong substance then I want the best possible experience out if it with the least amount of consequence.
I am (mostly) aware of the danger I put myself in and I've seen many people say that what someone experiences on METH is not real but to me it makes social engagement and kickin it on the weekend much more of a lasting experience that really did happen, albeit enhanced by METH, leaving me with fond memories of something as mundane as drinking beer and playing pool on a Friday night with a few friends.

I wasn't trying to write ya'll a book, but I wanted to give a clear picture of my usage.

METH fits into my life as an enhancement to actual prolonged social recreation like a day at the lake bbqing and drinking, or sometimes I do things like learn LINUX in one night.
I never do METH just for the sake of doing METH, that's fucking stupid and a waste of METH.
But it obviously has it's consequences if I don't take care of my mind and body during and between usage, which is what led me to adopt my rules over the years.

Does anyone have any advice or opinions?

Any knowledge is welcome.

 

[Goodteeth]

It sounds comprehensive enough to me. Especially if you’re talking 1-2 times a month. As far as the binge goes, how long are you crashed afterward? The reason I’m wondering is while you might really feel like you’re getting a lot accomplished in the one sleepless night, it’s pretty well wasted if you’re just tacking it on the crash. I’m a big fan of the 3 hour sleep. That gives you plenty of energy and some extra hours without making you feel strung out around the 40 hr mark (in my experience).

 

[Twackademy]

It sounds comprehensive enough to me. Especially if you’re talking 1-2 times a month. As far as the binge goes, how long are you crashed afterward? The reason I’m wondering is while you might really feel like you’re getting a lot accomplished in the one sleepless night, it’s pretty well wasted if you’re just tacking it on the crash. I’m a big fan of the 3 hour sleep. That gives you plenty of energy and some extra hours without making you feel strung out around the 40 hr mark (in my experience).

The amount of time that I sleep after being awake for longer than 24 hours slightly varies.

Using the method I described, I always sleep at least 4 hours and most of the time it's about 6 hours. Never more than 8 hours.

If I just used it for a fun Friday night that doesn't result in a binge then I usually induce my crash around 4 or 5 AM, set an alarm for noon, and wake up to go for a bike ride or walk in the park to solidify the decision that this weekend trip is over and done with. Then shower, eat, and I go about the usual weekend tasks like groceries, cleaning, mow the lawn, visit family etc.

If I binged, I induce the crash on Sunday before noon. I get some sleep, then I wake up to shower/eat/hydrate & smoke some bud/drink some beer while watching TV/Reading BL.
Around 10/11pm I pop 20 mg of Melatonin, smoke a fat joint and sleep for another 5 or 6 hours before resuming my everyday life on Monday morning.

When I begin my trip I usually have a pretty good idea of whether or not it's going to be one fun Friday night, or if it's gonna be a binge.

Once I've decided the time marker at which I will end the trip, I stick to it. I end the trip when I told myself I would, accepting that all good things must end in order to appreciate them, and that taking a break is 100% necessary in order to be able to even enjoy the next trip.

 

[Jabberwocky]

This is like my life goal. Except the beer bit. And the Linux.

 

[Gormur]

No, you need to be taking chelated magnesium or the orotate form as stimulants deplete your body of it as well as zinc, so probably zinc picolinate as well as a B-complex with methylcobalamin B-6 and B-12 (not cyanocobalamin) to cross the BBB

That's what I do. I even have access to this stuff that's like pure electrolytes from a lab that you drop into water to drink, but electrolyte drinks you get at a store are basically useless for that. Your best bet is to just get some of those vitamin C packs and take one or two packs a day to lower your tolerance to stimulants

Lastly, I don't see sniffing and smoking meth as being any different. Now if you IV it it is different because you're risking your veins to get a fix. Not that I have but I think it's riskier overall

 

[ControlDaddy]

Nice work Navoc, both in using your pretweaker and padawan brain to figure a lot of things out that most people don't tackle until they start hitting neurotoxicity and starting the inevitable downward spiral. This is also a well done, succinct and concise primer. Which BL needs. I'm pumped.

1. One Teaspoon of 100% Mucuna Pruriens Powder in my morning

I found this, and a few other supplements, to be the key to beating meth based ED without ED drugs. Once I had ample access to ED drugs I stopped keeping up with it, so I will have to check my notes are report on my regimen.

3. I never re-dose compulsively(anymore), I learned and appreciated early on that less is more and now I re-dose every 6-10 hours depending on the batch potency and how I feel.

This is so crucial. If you try smoking it you may will probably yourself mastered. I know you stand against it now, please keep it that way.

4. I DO NOT use with anyone else, period. I know others in my social circle who use and they feed off of each other's lack of will power and always encourage one another to compulsively re-dose WAY too early like it's fucking cocaine, and I'm not trying to bond with anyone with METH in this way. No one knows that I take a line in private when needed and that's that.

This is something I didn't need to learn until recently, and that I will take to heart. Thanks again.

7. I have also learned the hard way that after 60 hours, shit gets real fucking weird. So if I find myself on a binge, at the 50 hour mark I pop 0.5 mg of Xanax with 10 mg of Melatonin, meditate for 30 minutes, and then pop another 0.5 mg of Xanax with 10 mg of Melatonin. Like clockwork, I'm out within 1 hour. This is all after ceasing alcohol use for at least 1 hour.

Crucial shit here.

8. I NEVER operate a vehicle, go to work, or make any major life decisions while under the influence.

Me neither.

METH fits into my life as an enhancement to actual prolonged social recreation like a day at the lake bbqing and drinking, or sometimes I do things like learn LINUX in one night.
I never do METH just for the sake of doing METH, that's fucking stupid and a waste of METH.
But it obviously has it's consequences if I don't take care of my mind and body during and between usage, which is what led me to adopt my rules over the years.

This is the only part that makes me a little scared for you. This will not last forever IME. I am also a nerd who can pick up linux in a night and when I was much younger, for a few years, a little bit of CM seemed like an effective productivity tool. This was mostly tested on projects for school. When it became a crucial issue, like a deadline on a commercial contract, I found myself confused, having kernel panics, and my ADD very triggered when I set down to get 'er done. I always smoked it, and that might have made the enhancement window narrow for me, and more open for you. Stay on top of that and be very careful. Check out our thread on low dose meth as a world conquering ADHD mastering farce. Its fun and properly scary.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Your best bet is to just get some of those vitamin C packs and take one or two packs a day to lower your tolerance to stimulants

Vitamin C attenuates the effects of meth. That is to say, it reduces the effects of meth. It is often recommended to be given (with other things) in overamping.

 

[Gormur]

Vitamin C attenuates the effects of meth. That is to say, it reduces the effects of meth. It is often recommended to be given (with other things) in overamping.

Sorry I should've clarified. You take the vitamin C at night; or whenever you go to bed. This reduces tolerance. As for the other supplements, you can take them in the morning or whenever you wake up, before taking meth etc

 

[Twackademy]

Nice work Navoc, both in using your pretweaker and padawan brain to figure a lot of things out that most people don't tackle until they start hitting neurotoxicity and starting the inevitable downward spiral. This is also a well done, succinct and concise primer. Which BL needs. I'm pumped.


I found this, and a few other supplements, to be the key to beating meth based ED without ED drugs. Once I had ample access to ED drugs I stopped keeping up with it, so I will have to check my notes are report on my regimen.

This is so crucial. If you try smoking it you may will probably yourself mastered. I know you stand against it now, please keep it that way.

This is something I didn't need to learn until recently, and that I will take to heart. Thanks again.

Crucial shit here.

Me neither.

This is the only part that makes me a little scared for you. This will not last forever IME. I am also a nerd who can pick up linux in a night and when I was much younger, for a few years, a little bit of CM seemed like an effective productivity tool. This was mostly tested on projects for school. When it became a crucial issue, like a deadline on a commercial contract, I found myself confused, having kernel panics, and my ADD very triggered when I set down to get 'er done. I always smoked it, and that might have made the enhancement window narrow for me, and more open for you. Stay on top of that and be very careful. Check out our thread on low dose meth as a world conquering ADHD mastering farce. Its fun and properly scary.

Thank you! I really do appreciate.

I didn't post this to brag or anything, but if any of my techniques are valid then I do hope they might help someone understand this drug better and take Harm Reduction seriously.
I also am completely open to advice, opinions and criticism because it's how I personally learn more about life in general, by being open to conversation.

As for my view of METH enhancing activities, I understand why it can be scary. Because it's easy to get caught in the trap of needing to use METH to enjoy any activity, it started to happen to me in my early use before I began searching for knowledge about how dopamine release becomes regulated to associated activities.
I monitor my mental well being very closely, especially after damn near going full psychosis a few years ago.
I make sure to go out and socialize, camp, fish, hike, have sex during my tolerance breaks to remind myself that these activities are still enjoyable without METH, albeit not nearly as enhanced. Whenever i'm at the lake on a beautiful day or hiking in the mountains and I find myself naturally euphoric without ANY foreign substance, I take a moment to really soak that moment in and appreciate it. Those moments I think are very important to my ability to not NEED METH to enjoy an activity, so I make sure to regularly force myself into a situation where 9 times out 10 I'm going to enjoy my time.

 

[Twackademy]

Sorry I should've clarified. You take the vitamin C at night; or whenever you go to bed. This reduces tolerance. As for the other supplements, you can take them in the morning or whenever you wake up, before taking meth

Sorry I should've clarified. You take the vitamin C at night; or whenever you go to bed. This reduces tolerance. As for the other supplements, you can take them in the morning or whenever you wake up, before taking meth etc

I will try this. It makes sense and I've seen a few people on here mention that Vitamin C can help end a trip, but I've never heard that it can help reduce tolerance as well.
That seems like a very good harm reduction tool by logic: Reduce tolerance = less drug needed to achieve desired stimulation.

I will do some research on the other supplements and figure out the best way to source them and incorporate them into my regimen.
Do the other supplements have better effects if taken daily or just when I know that I will use METH?

 

[Gormur]

I will try this. It makes sense and I've seen a few people on here mention that Vitamin C can help end a trip, but I've never heard that it can help reduce tolerance as well.
That seems like a very good harm reduction tool by logic: Reduce tolerance = less drug needed to achieve desired stimulation.

I will do some research on the other supplements and figure out the best way to source them and incorporate them into my regimen.
Do the other supplements have better effects if taken daily or just when I know that I will use METH?

It's good to take them everyday but you don't have to. Maybe twice a week for B-complex and 3 times a week for magnesium and zinc. I've done that when I was running out and it worked fine. Also, you can order all the supplements I listed on Wal-Mart's website. There are probably others too like iherb.com and stuff but I haven't checked their prices recently

Cool. I'm glad there's somebody else who knows what to do now =)

 

[ControlDaddy]

Thank you! I really do appreciate.

I didn't post this to brag or anything, but if any of my techniques are valid then I do hope they might help someone understand this drug better and take Harm Reduction seriously.
I also am completely open to advice, opinions and criticism because it's how I personally learn more about life in general, by being open to conversation.

As for my view of METH enhancing activities, I understand why it can be scary. Because it's easy to get caught in the trap of needing to use METH to enjoy any activity, it started to happen to me in my early use before I began searching for knowledge about how dopamine release becomes regulated to associated activities.
I monitor my mental well being very closely, especially after damn near going full psychosis a few years ago.
I make sure to go out and socialize, camp, fish, hike, have sex during my tolerance breaks to remind myself that these activities are still enjoyable without METH, albeit not nearly as enhanced. Whenever i'm at the lake on a beautiful day or hiking in the mountains and I find myself naturally euphoric without ANY foreign substance, I take a moment to really soak that moment in and appreciate it. Those moments I think are very important to my ability to not NEED METH to enjoy an activity, so I make sure to regularly force myself into a situation where 9 times out 10 I'm going to enjoy my time.

I'd love to see a thread that focuses just on the philosophies you have that make sure your theme song doesn't become "all you need is meth" or the other one "I made meth my bitch" or that hit single "id rather not live than live without meth". The philosophies you use to balance your use with living a productive and useful life, with it and without it, and in spite of it.

Do you have an escape plan? To get back to a life without meth, should you hit one of your put it down forever signposts? If not type it up and post it and I will cover it in gold stars.

I have two thoughts.
1) the chelated mag, and the supplements to support the absorption of it, is going to improve your meth enhanced life. I am abusive with my habit and I have to take it constantly to avoid becoming very uncomfortable, but even moderate usage is depleting your magnesium levels. talk with some pros and figure out how to do that safely
2) Rule #4 makes so much sense. You reading and sharing on BL makes so much sense as well. The synergy of the two sounds like it makes the most sense. I hope you find yourself engaging with people here who you can say, hey i just did a line and I am going rollerblading and then a date with my girl, and socialize with those people here a bit. If you do start the classic meth downhill spiral, its gonna be because denial crept in and got a hold on you. Friends here might be safe and able to help you see better where you really stand. That thread in my initial comments, judge for yourself, perhaps it hasn't helped the OP not to be fooled by the psychological effects of prolonged meth use, but I believe this community has intervened in his psychosis and some HR probably occurred, if only to make an illicit drug user smile more.

 

[Twackademy]

By "see a thread", do you mean this thread or start an entirely new thread focused around mentally understanding one's relationship with METH?

Escape plan: I don't see myself giving it up. I guess that stems from my mindset that I view it like any other mind altering substance, as an enhancement.

My logic works like this for example: Let's say I own a Corvette. Just because the power and speed of the Corvette is available to me at any moment, does not mean I drive 150 mph everywhere I go. It also doesn't mean that I have to drive the Corvette every time I need to go somewhere, many people own a sports car/super car and a daily driver.
But, owning such a fast and powerful car, I can take that baby out to a race track on the weekend and have some exhilarating fun with it. Time and place.

The Corvette is METH, the daily driver car is acceptance that I don't need the Corvette's(Meth's) speed and power to get from point A to point B, and the race track is a METH enhanced activity.

Now, my sign to give up Meth completely would be if I became homeless. I've always been quite independent and a go getter my entire life, and I've had issues and dark times but I have never come close to having literally nothing. I view my life like a kingdom that I am continually building and improving.

If I were to lose literally everything I've built, I would seriously go become a monk. I would live the rest of my life in solitude without modern society, making wine and cheese.

Also, that thread about daily dosing for ADHD. Brooooooo I was actually on a binge this past weekend and that fucking thread was both entertaining AND saddening. It's actually what motivated me to create this thread. It made me question if I could do more to NOT go down that path that the OP of that thread did. After I watched the youtube video he posted, it only reinforced my rules further into my mind that less is more and prolonged over-stimulation will fuck you up. That guy really fucking lost it. I really do feel bad for him, I don't know to do about a situation like that and I never want to be in a situation like that.

 

[ControlDaddy]

I'll come back to your questions but first I'd like to hear your thoughts on my thought #2? Do you think there is some value in having some anonymous users in your life that you do share your using with?

 

[Twackademy]

I'll come back to your questions but first I'd like to hear your thoughts on my thought #2? Do you think there is some value in having some anonymous users in your life that you do share your using with?

I'm sorry I completely skipped that question on accident.

I do. For the last 3 years I have kept my METH use a complete secret from the entire world, except my plug obviously.
I have yearned to be understood from my own point of view, not judged. As well as having an open dialogue that blatantly acknowledges the effects of METH instead of denying them and pretending they don't exist.

I watch the people I know in real life who use METH, and they all pretend like they know what they're doing. They may know the effect they will achieve, and are addicted to it, but they don't ACTUALLY know what they are doing to their mind and body by regularly taking high doses of a powerful stimulant.
They don't acknowledge it, they deny it, get defensive and egotistic. I don't pretend that doing METH is healthy or safe, but I do believe in Harm Reduction and Self-Care.
Like riding a motorcycle with a helmet on, it's still dangerous but you are taking precautions to minimize the danger.

So yes. After reading the ADHD self medicating thread(funny as fuck when I was high), I realized yesterday while ruminating my weekend binge that although I do believe I take METH with a great deal of caution and practice self control, it is in my best interest to be part of a community that has open conversations about the recreational use of METH.
Who knows, I might even be able to help someone out too.

I was too stoned to make a post yesterday evening though so I didn't get around to sharing my life until I got home today lol.

 

[ControlDaddy]

I'm sorry I completely skipped that question on accident.

I do. For the last 3 years I have kept my METH use a complete secret from the entire world, except my plug obviously.
I have yearned to be understood from my own point of view, not judged. As well as having an open dialogue that blatantly acknowledges the effects of METH instead of denying them and pretending they don't exist.

I watch the people I know in real life who use METH, and they all pretend like they know what they're doing. They may know the effect they will achieve, and are addicted to it, but they don't ACTUALLY know what they are doing to their mind and body by regularly taking high doses of a powerful stimulant.
They don't acknowledge it, they deny it, get defensive and egotistic. I don't pretend that doing METH is healthy or safe, but I do believe in Harm Reduction and Self-Care.
Like riding a motorcycle with a helmet on, it's still dangerous but you are taking precautions to minimize the danger.

So yes. After reading the ADHD self medicating thread(funny as fuck when I was high), I realized yesterday while ruminating my weekend binge that although I do believe I take METH with a great deal of caution and practice self control, it is in my best interest to be part of a community that has open conversations about the recreational use of METH.
Who knows, I might even be able to help someone out too.

I was too stoned to make a post yesterday evening though so I didn't get around to sharing my life until I got home today lol.

Cool. I am new here to. I lurked for 5 or 6 years and only signed up a couple of weeks ago.

I think the most insidious thing about meth is it gives the illusion of control no matter what stage of addiction and abuse you are in. Even days after you have ceased use, meth makes you think that as long as it is a part of your life you will be in control of it, your life, your future, and if you consider life without it, only then will you have lost control. It is the critical factor in making a chemical that creates addictive phenomenon in a person, extremely psychologically addictive as well. (I have a name change request in to add the word change my username to ControlDaddy, to remind me and others of my dire warning about this.)

Yes I think another thread that you can update, that takes out all the technical stuff, might be helpful. Tweakers are notorious for tweaking technical stuff when they can, but I think your philosophies can be educational even to old hands in the tweak game.

I hope to see you around and that I can convince you not to plant your signpost at homelessness and the monastery. A year ago I moved into a monastery and it's a harder life than you might think. Homelessness, man, without methamphetamine either, I am just saying I would be miserable. But I am a self-made stubborn sonofabitch.

 

[ControlDaddy]

The technical parts of your regimen, which are probably specific to an individual, and likely to be tweaked by another user, or interferes with another users existing regimen e.g. supplementation, hydration, benzo dosages, paramaters for rest and sleep, etc. I think it is great you are sharing what works for you in this thread, which shows how intelligently you have thought through the technical parts.

I hope the thread I am suggesting will be of used to those stubborn users who are set in their ways or might disagree or have issues with this thread, at least they can partake of some of the wisdom you have as well through the other thread.

I am probably overthinking it!

 

[Twackademy]

The technical parts of your regimen, which are probably specific to an individual, and likely to be tweaked by another user, or interferes with another users existing regimen e.g. supplementation, hydration, benzo dosages, paramaters for rest and sleep, etc. I think it is great you are sharing what works for you in this thread, which shows how intelligently you have thought through the technical parts.

I hope the thread I am suggesting will be of used to those stubborn users who are set in their ways or might disagree or have issues with this thread, at least they can partake of some of the wisdom you have as well through the other thread.

I am probably overthinking it!

Ahhh I gotcha.
You're suggesting a thread more geared toward understanding that there is more to life than the drugs I use, even when I'm using?
That one thing is not necessarily good or bad, it just is.
Understanding and acknowledging how my thoughts affect my actions, and how my actions affect my overall well being, and how my overall well being affects my thoughts?
That kind of philosophy?

 

[ControlDaddy]

Ahhh I gotcha.
You're suggesting a thread more geared toward understanding that there is more to life than the drugs I use, even when I'm using?
That one thing is not necessarily good or bad, it just is.
Understanding and acknowledging how my thoughts affect my actions, and how my actions affect my overall well being, and how my overall well being affects my thoughts?
That kind of philosophy?

nailed it

 

[ControlDaddy]

nailed it

that might also hit the checkbox as a way for BLers to check you, which was my other concern and why i encouraged you to socialize here. if you are updating the other thread periodically and those values are warping to allow you to use more, more often, or bend this rule book in meths favor instead of yours, we can call you on it and make sure you aren't falling for a meth illusion