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Opioids Methadone Mega Thread and FAQ v 2.0

englandgz74 said:
Thanks man!!

I honestly dont think I could do it again though. I'd been in pain management for many years on high doses of morphine, oxy, fentanyl, etc.. and then methadone ....I was also on pregabalin and diazepam and kicked both of those at the same time...

Like I say it was incredibly tough. The withdrawls were different to say morphine in that I didn't have any vomiting and diahorria wasn't too severe but the crippling anxiety, insomnia and general dysphoria were something else...

I would never to back on methadone in a million years. It did help my pain but is such an awful med to kick if you've been on it for any length of time at a high dose.

It undoubtedly helps those who's street opiate use has become out of control in that it provides some stability but for anyone else who plans on coming off it then I think a slow taper is much more doable.

Thanks again though bro!!
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Do you mind telling us how long you were on 180mg before you quit CT.And did you go from other opiates straight to methadone without a break?I'm just trying to guage how many years straight you were on opiates that made for such a prolonged withdrawal.
 
MMT said:
Do you mind telling us how long you were on 180mg before you quit CT.And did you go from other opiates straight to methadone without a break?I'm just trying to guage how many years straight you were on opiates that made for such a prolonged withdrawal.
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I was on opiates for 19 years straight in total. Usually rotating the drug prescribed .....over the last 10 years or so howver it had been mainly methadone tablets other than a year of fentanyl (2011 - 2012). All the time the same methadone dose and without a break of more than a day or two over the whole period.....so 19 years total opiates and roughly 9 years methadone......The simultaneous discontinuation of pregabalin and diazepam undoubtedly helped prolong the withdrawls but after such long term and high dose opiate consumption the withdrawls were going to be bad whatever....

The main impetus for me wanting off was as I say the change in UK driving laws surrounding prescription drugs and their incompatibility with my job.
 
NateJW said:
Hey guys I thought about making a new thread but I decided just to stick this in here and see If I get my answer first.

I got myself in a bit of a pickle, I started mmt a couple months ago, I'm at 60mgs now, but I used dope alot because it wasn't holding me at first, and now I'm right at the edge of the blocking effect you get from higher doses, I barely feel the dope at all, and even if I get the least little rush, it's gone very quickly. So once I started noticing this I thought, Guess I should just stop using dope right?

Well now I start getting sick towards the end of the day, early evening, and by the next morning I'm in full blown withdrawal, it takes everything in me to get to the clinic to get my next dose. So I use most nights after work, even though I barely feel anything at all, but im not sick and I wake up in much more milder withdrawal. So basically instead of using the methadone to get right I've just made my addiction that much worse.

So does anyone have any advice for breaking out of this cycle? Did I explain it well enough?
Click to expand...

I put myself in this same situation the last time I was on methadone. Honestly, if you're not going to quit shooting dope, you should either A)lower your methadone dosage, or B)quit the methadone in general-that's what I eventually did. But even a 5mg decrease can have a big difference in terms of methadone's efficacy as a blocker. For instance, I noticed that the effects from heroin were diminished when I went from 50mg to 55mg. However, until that point, I was able to get high, easier on methadone, 'cause the done would potentiate the dope. If you end up quitting the methadone and just shooting dope, it'll suck for a little while because you'll realize what the methadone was actually doing, and for two weeks you'll probably feel like you have to fix way more often, but after that it just fades into a bad dope habit.

If you want to try sticking with the methadone, maybe raise your dose more, so that you'll have less incentive to shoot dope.
 
serotonin-system said:
For all those wanting to reduce your dosage to the liquid handcuffs (green liquid). Have you tried IVing your script. You'll prolly be able to cut your dose in half.
Click to expand...

There are so many things wrong with that statement I don't know where to start....
 
So, I was going to make an entirely new thread about the oh so very precious information I am about to share with y'all. However, I say this thread at the very top of "OD" section.

I'm on MMT; I take 85mg of the liquid cherry 10mg/ml solution on an empty (well, not anymore...) stomach every morning. I have always taken a big interest in learning as much as I can about the chemicals that I get myself addicted to. The more you know.

ANYHOO...

I have learned the the acidity (PH) of the stomach effects the bioavailability absorption?) of methadone, and that having a more "alkaline environment" in the stomach actually increases the amount of methadone that gets absorbed. (I think) the higher the acidity of an environment means more degradation of methadone.

ALSO, I have learned, due to methadone being highly lipid soluble, that it actually gets absorbed more if it is ingested with FAT!

SO , now with my simple experiment, with promising results.

I have been comfortably "stable" on my liquid dose at 85mg for quite some time now. So here is my new routine:

I am very fortunate that my apartment is only a 20 minute walk from my clinic (I truly feel for y'all making hour plus treks just do get your fucking doses. If that's the case, I PRAY that you get the maximum amount of take-homes)

So, instead of making the 20 minute walk on an empty stomach , I now take a shot (glass, not I.V.) of olive oil right before I leave for my walk. Not only is olive oil LOADED with fats (and the healthy kind, too!), it is alkaline as it is.

Now, like I said, I've been stable on 85mg for quite some time now. I really don't remember the last time I got a buzz, or really a very noticable "feel" from my dose.


I'll tell you guys what: whether it's the high fat content, or the alkaline nature of the olive oil, this really does work. I've done this "trick" for the past three days in a row; however I am going to TRYto only potentiate two days out of the week. No use in needlessly raising my tolerance. Plus my theory on the high fat content increasing absorption , this is the most efficient (being a liquid) .

IMPORTANT NOTE: If you do in fact use oil for this "potentiation", MAKE SURE it's OLIVE oil, because most oils actually create a highly acidic environment in the gut. But hey, at least one of the healthiest oils happens to be the one that works .

And to those of you that can't even fathom the thought of downing a shot of olive oil, (I'm italian, I actually like it haha...) you obviously have a huge selection of fatty , delicious, potential potentiators (lol, sounds funny).

To find out where foods fall on the "alkaline/aciditic scale", just type "are (food) alkaline?" in your favorite search engine.

I felt compelled to share this because, with all the research I've done (specifically on the topic of potentiation), I've run accross an alarming amout of, well, just plain dangerous and reckless advice and methods regarding said potentiation. And ironically it seems as if most, if not ALL of the careless promotion of potentially harmful information comes from FUCKING HARM REDUCTION FORUMS...

FOR THE FUCKING SAKE OF HARM REDUCTION PEOPLE, REMEMBER: just because something works, or is scientifically "backed", does not make it a good idea .
 
^that's interesting though it's probably due to the acidity rather than the fat content. You could probably save yourself from downing a shot of good old 'OO' if your just took some tums, or at least try it out (that way we could know if it was due to acidity or fat).

Regardless, methadone isn't a drug that usually needs potentiation, it has a super high oral BA, and also a good rectal BA. For anyone who has, or will in the future recommend injecting your dosage, you are fucking retarded. Methadone does not produce a rush, it is a shit drug to IV. It's probably the only drug that I prefer taking orally over intravenously because shooting it is seriously a waste of time, efforts and veins. Not only, but even pure methadone, should you somehow come across it is harmful to inject, much like promethazine or diphenhydramine, it's an abrasive substance. Not only that, but injecting your take homes is an awful idea, clinics are a breeding ground for disease, think about it, hospital environment, bunch of junkies spitting, shitting (or not), drinking coffee all over the place. About as far from 'sterile' as you get.
 
my clinic has a policy where if you get a dirty UA for benzos, they decrease your dose by 10%, then 5mg per week until you pee clean for benzos. does anybody else go to a clinic with a similar policy? I think its crap but there's nothing i can do about it really. thanks guys
 
Bard_Sing_Sayer said:
So, I was going to make an entirely new thread about the oh so very precious information I am about to share with y'all. However, I say this thread at the very top of "OD" section.

I'm on MMT; I take 85mg of the liquid cherry 10mg/ml solution on an empty (well, not anymore...) stomach every morning. I have always taken a big interest in learning as much as I can about the chemicals that I get myself addicted to. The more you know.

ANYHOO...

I have learned the the acidity (PH) of the stomach effects the bioavailability absorption?) of methadone, and that having a more "alkaline environment" in the stomach actually increases the amount of methadone that gets absorbed. (I think) the higher the acidity of an environment means more degradation of methadone.

ALSO, I have learned, due to methadone being highly lipid soluble, that it actually gets absorbed more if it is ingested with FAT!

SO , now with my simple experiment, with promising results.

I have been comfortably "stable" on my liquid dose at 85mg for quite some time now. So here is my new routine:

I am very fortunate that my apartment is only a 20 minute walk from my clinic (I truly feel for y'all making hour plus treks just do get your fucking doses. If that's the case, I PRAY that you get the maximum amount of take-homes)

So, instead of making the 20 minute walk on an empty stomach , I now take a shot (glass, not I.V.) of olive oil right before I leave for my walk. Not only is olive oil LOADED with fats (and the healthy kind, too!), it is alkaline as it is.

Now, like I said, I've been stable on 85mg for quite some time now. I really don't remember the last time I got a buzz, or really a very noticable "feel" from my dose.


I'll tell you guys what: whether it's the high fat content, or the alkaline nature of the olive oil, this really does work. I've done this "trick" for the past three days in a row; however I am going to TRYto only potentiate two days out of the week. No use in needlessly raising my tolerance. Plus my theory on the high fat content increasing absorption , this is the most efficient (being a liquid) .

IMPORTANT NOTE: If you do in fact use oil for this "potentiation", MAKE SURE it's OLIVE oil, because most oils actually create a highly acidic environment in the gut. But hey, at least one of the healthiest oils happens to be the one that works .

And to those of you that can't even fathom the thought of downing a shot of olive oil, (I'm italian, I actually like it haha...) you obviously have a huge selection of fatty , delicious, potential potentiators (lol, sounds funny).

To find out where foods fall on the "alkaline/aciditic scale", just type "are (food) alkaline?" in your favorite search engine.

I felt compelled to share this because, with all the research I've done (specifically on the topic of potentiation), I've run accross an alarming amout of, well, just plain dangerous and reckless advice and methods regarding said potentiation. And ironically it seems as if most, if not ALL of the careless promotion of potentially harmful information comes from FUCKING HARM REDUCTION FORUMS...

FOR THE FUCKING SAKE OF HARM REDUCTION PEOPLE, REMEMBER: just because something works, or is scientifically "backed", does not make it a good idea .
Click to expand...

That is as good as any opiate potentiation can go as long as its not a prodrug. (like codeine, in which case the enzyme boost is better). But methadone would be the least adventageous to potentiate since the Bioavability is pretty high, but I guess that when you get to methadone you want every bit of the potential unlocked.
 
Just wondering if drugs like benzos, Promethazine, Clonidine, and soma are prevalent at your clinic. They sure are at mine. Every day people are buying and selling these drugs right by my clinic. It makes it hard for people to stay on the straight and narrow. i'll admit, I do indulge in the occasional benzo, but I'm not out there buying pills every day.
 
Who's tried white grapefruit juice on 'Done?

I take it with subutex when I feel the need & though u need an antihistamine (itch like a codeine mofo), it boosts it immensely. As in can't walk a straight line.

There's much about opiate/opiod potentiation but not when on ORT.

Still works ?

Rtp
 
Runtoparadise said:
Who's tried white grapefruit juice on 'Done?

I take it with subutex when I feel the need & though u need an antihistamine (itch like a codeine mofo), it boosts it immensely. As in can't walk a straight line.

There's much about opiate/opiod potentiation but not when on ORT.

Still works ��

Rtp
Click to expand...

IDK,I was on high dose MMT for years and you get to a point where even,for me at least,tripling up just made me tired,not really higher/nodding feeling.I've tried the WGJ and Tagamet with it too with basically the same effect.That's the whole point with done,that it doesn't get you high once you're on a stable dose.That's why ppl take the BZ's and other things.Those DO work w/ done.A more enlightened society wouldn't GAF whether you got high or not and give you what you need.But we're not anywhere near that,God forbid you get to feel normal in America.But they'll pump you full of AD's and anti-psycotics which do nothing to a long term opiated brain but it's great for the shareholders,and that's all that matters to the various rehab stakeholders.

I've never done the Subs but IIRC the Subutex doesn't have the naloxone in it(as opposed to Suboxone) so as a straight agonist I can see where it would work.Depending on what antihistamine you're taking,that potentiates as well.Stay safe.
 
Well, the thing is, the bioavailability of methadone has a wide range. It can be very high--but it is pH dependent. So the people who may not be getting high BA normally and use methods to make their systems less acidic will probably see some effect. I mean, if you're dosing daily but you're naturally more acidic and you're getting say 65% but then you make your system more alkaline (baking soda, tums, Tagamet) and your BA increases to 85%, that person is going to notice a difference.

Personally, I would only bother with such things if you are one of the people whose dose does not last them the 24 hours til next dose. I went through that for a while a few years back, and as commonly known the half life of methadone is 8-55 hours. Huge range, right? Well I looked into that, and it's almost entirely dependent upon pH. Back then I had to dose in the evening. Upon waking in the morning (sleep drops your pH) i would be in the same mild wd whether I dosed at 530 pm (13 hours prior) or 6:30 am (24 hours prior). So I experimented some with pH, and taking baking soda (ugh), and it really did make the dose last longer so that I wasn't in withdrawal.

Now, if you are stable and you take your dose at a regular time and you're normal, my personal opinion is leave well enough alone!! (I have been randomly dropping; been stable for about 2 years so working on getting off; went from 95 to my current 45). The whole point of methadone maintenance is stability.

However, if you are one of those people for whom the dose doesn't last, increases don't help, etc....then by all means you would want to look into the effects of pH on methadone !
 
^^^ this is very true. The bioavailability of oral methadone varies tremendously from person to person.
 
thelung said:
my clinic has a policy where if you get a dirty UA for benzos, they decrease your dose by 10%, then 5mg per week until you pee clean for benzos. does anybody else go to a clinic with a similar policy? I think its crap but there's nothing i can do about it really. thanks guys
Click to expand...

Well, I've never been a benzo fan (except when I was into IV coke simply cause they knock me out) but I do know at my clinic after dirty urines for benzos they put you in group for that, take any take homes (same as any dirty). If you keep coming up dirty after 6 consecutive weeks they put you on probation til you have a month straight of clean ones. If you keep giving dirty ones then you get warning letters and they will administratively detox you if you don't stop. Some people they detox to like 25-30 then put into inpatient. I know one girl who's going thru that now. She's been flipping out about them detoxing her, but my god after 3 months straight and multiple staff meetings with her, she can't say she didn't see it coming....I still feel for her though. Don't like to see anyone sick. Especially cause I know she will go right back out there. And then, considering it's a non-profit clinic--who does that help??

Now, even if scripted from a doctor you still have to get off them. Which I don't agree with. Some people clearly don't need them (i.e. The person nodding in the waiting room daily prior to dosing...) but some people really have anxiety that needs to be treated. And just because their opiate addiction is being treated shouldn't make them automatically off their psych meds.

But I guess with all the ODs and people double dipping take homes and such, they cover their ass...
 
What if you suffer from status epileptus and need a benzo script for what is essentially a life threatening condition?
 
No idea. I would imagine there has to be extenuating circumstances. But having no personal experience I couldn't tell you. I agree though, there has to be some situations that would be necessary


They also do suboxone scripts at this clinic. Maybe they put them on that when they come in? Or are those usually generally not allowed together either?
 
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