Meperidine - demerol/pethidine.

[kokaino]

Heroin may be a morphine prodrug but it isn't the same as Morphine. The effects of Heroin are vastly greater. The only real similarity in terms of effects is the heavy sedation. Heroin is more euphoric and provides more body warmth. I'd take Heroin over Morphine any day.

As far as Demerol goes, I never got much of a buzz from it. I took 250mg of it a few times and it never got me to where I wanted to be. Didn't provide that classic opioid feeling. Its a full synthetic so I never really expected it to be.

Heroin's effects are due to the fact that it converts to morphine. Heroin itself is a very weak mu-receptor ligand. 6-MAM play a very small role and that too is a morphine prodrug (it's eventually - actually pretty rapidly too - converted to morphine). The two are essentially one and the same. The only difference in their molecules is the acetyl groups on the heroin molecule - they sort of act as a propeller to drive morphine faster to the brain then morphine would on its own. This is due to higher lipid solubility, which is why it is 1.5-1.8x more potent than morphine.

Studies have shown addicts given both morphine and heroin, preferred both over other opioids tested (fentanyl, oxycodone, hydromorphone, and meperidine). But didn't differ between the two (morphine/heroin), but they were able to differ the rest from morphine/heroin.

 

[kokaino]

Sorry for the double post, but here it is:

In particular, users report an intense rush, an acute transcendent state of euphoria, that occurs while the diacetylmorphine is being metabolized into 6-monoacetylmorphine (6-MAM) and morphine in the brain. Diacetylmorphine produces more euphoria than other opioids upon injection. One possible explanation is the presence of 6-monoacetylmorphine, a metabolite unique to diacetylmorphine. While other opioids of recreational use, such as codeine, produce only morphine, diacetylmorphine also leaves 6-MAM, also a psycho-active metabolite. However, this perception is not supported by the results of clinical studies comparing the physiological and subjective effects of injected diacetylmorphine and morphine in individuals formerly addicted to opioids; these subjects showed no preference for one drug over the other. Equipotent injected doses had comparable action courses, with no difference in subjects' self-rated feelings of euphoria, ambition, nervousness, relaxation, drowsiness, or sleepiness. Short-term addiction studies by the same researchers demonstrated that tolerance developed at a similar rate to both diacetylmorphine and morphine. When compared to the opioids hydromorphone, fentanyl, oxycodone, and pethidine/meperidine, former addicts showed a strong preference for diacetylmorphine and morphine, suggesting that diacetylmorphine and morphine are particularly susceptible to abuse and addiction. Morphine and diacetylmorphine were also much more likely to produce euphoria and other positive subjective effects when compared to these other opioids.

Reason for this result: because heroin is a morphine prodrug and they're essentially the same drug.

 

[K'd-OUT-in-AZ]

Yeah, I read the same thing before. There is a big difference in the two, heroin is a much more potent opiate. It is the more euphoric of the two. Morphine only feels similar from the sedation. I don't know a single addict who wouldn't be able to distinguish the two. Big, big difference.

 

[kokaino]

Yeah, I read the same thing before. There is a big difference in the two, heroin is a much more potent opiate. It is the more euphoric of the two. Morphine only feels similar from the sedation. I don't know a single addict who wouldn't be able to distinguish the two. Big, big difference.

The best studies have heroin to be 1.5-1.8x more potent due to lipid solubility - I wouldn't exactly call that a "much more potent opiate". It's a morphine prodrug, of course addicts chose morphine over all the other opioids - because it's the same thing as heroin.

The only difference is 6-MAM - which itself is only involved in the 'push' that morphine gets from the 2 acetyl groups as they break off from the "heroin" molecule and revert back to morphine upon crossing the BBB. 6-MAM itself is then quickly converted into morphine and you have nothing left but morphine.

Heroin is a morphine prodrug, we both agree.

Definition of prodrug:

Prodrug: A precursor (forerunner) of a drug. A prodrug must undergo chemical conversion by metabolic processes before becoming an active pharmacological agent. For example, sulfasalazine...

Source for definition

Double-blind addicts who didn't know what they were getting, couldn't tell the difference, but addicts who know what they are getting will "know the difference". So your "big, big difference" story is not objective, but subjective. I think this so-called "difference" is nothing more than a placebo effect, which is common in things like this. Perception is a powerful thing.

 

[paranoid android]

Damn near useless IMO, but if you are dope sick it might be help.

Giving diamorphine in a hospital is just plain stupid. There are drugs that are just as effective as a pain killer without the enormous risks. Only people wanting to get high would think that is a good idea.....

This is one thing I actually agree with the US govt about. The UK is crazy for allowing that.

What are the enormous risks behind medical grade heroin? It's no more risky then morphine thats for sure although it would probably have more side effects then say hydromorphone or fentanyl such as histamine release and vomiting but thats about it. Plus it would have the advantage of lasting longer then hydromorphone or fentanyl while still being stronger then morphine.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Some laughable opinions in this thread.

Firstly, heroin is used in the UK as a medical painkiller because some of the side-effects are lower than with morphine. It's used as a first line treatment in some cases, an alternative in others. It actually causes less histamine release and nausea for the same level of analgesia as morphine. Having it there as a treatment option is perfectly sensible.

Secondly, there are a few hundred addicts in the UK who are prescribed heroin out of the scores of thousands who are on a script. This is quite frankly a fucking outrage, anyone who is shown to be compliant with the conditions of opiate maintenance should be given the opportunity to have it, it is far more effective as a tool for pulling people away from drugs and getting clean than bupe or methadone.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Some laughable opinions in this thread.

Firstly, heroin is used in the UK as a medical painkiller because some of the side-effects are lower than with morphine. It's used as a first line treatment in some cases, an alternative in others. It actually causes less histamine release and nausea for the same level of analgesia as morphine. Having it there as a treatment option is perfectly sensible.

Secondly, there are a few hundred addicts in the UK who are prescribed heroin out of the scores of thousands who are on a script. This is quite frankly a fucking outrage, anyone who is shown to be compliant with the conditions of opiate maintenance should be given the opportunity to have it, it is far more effective as a tool for pulling people away from drugs and getting clean than bupe or methadone.

'Same with Diconal which a lot of yanks say they wish they were in England to try. If you spend a month here with hard core heroin users addicted since the 1980s you *still* probably wont be able to get hold of any diconal.'

This is true, I've been lucky/unlucky enough to have the pleasure.

 

[jcn]

Heroin may be a morphine prodrug but it isn't the same as Morphine. The effects of Heroin are vastly greater. The only real similarity in terms of effects is the heavy sedation. Heroin is more euphoric and provides more body warmth. I'd take Heroin over Morphine any day.

As far as Demerol goes, I never got much of a buzz from it. I took 250mg of it a few times and it never got me to where I wanted to be. Didn't provide that classic opioid feeling. Its a full synthetic so I never really expected it to be.

Hi...was that IV or oral 250mg?