Mental Conditioning

psychedelicsoul · Aug 27, 2015

ForEverAfter said:
Why did you deserve to die?
Because you had same-sex tendencies?
Does everyone with same-sex tendencies, then, deserve to die?
(This is a perfect example of you implying hate on others.)

Because I felt that way... I don't need a reason. For some reason, I just hated myself. It wasn't about religion honestly. I never gave a shit about following the bible. So it coudln't have been that. But when I started getting into spice and psychedelics it all made sense to me. My bisexuality was the source of my stress, anger, and misery. I felt kinda like I did after the end of a serious amanita muscaria trip... like how it feels to be transgendered.
I felt like I was the wrong person. Like what I was feelings, thinking, and doing wasn't consistent with who I am. (granted, it's not like gender dysphoria, since that's connected to ones body... It's more like a dyphoria of thoughts... As if my thoughts just didn't match myself)
Whenever I'd have a gay thought, it felt like I was literally a different person. As in... I felt like my personality changed, my thought patterns changed, I felt like my thoughts weren't even my own... I'd also imagine macarbe images and think about rape, slavery, cannibalism... And then I came...

As soon as I was done jacking off, it resulted in an emotional 180%... my stomach would ache, I was depressed... I'm not capable of crying unless I'm drunk, so I had no choice but to just sit there... When you don't' cry the sadness is less intense, but lasts much longer.

And, you don't sound you like you know God.

Not at all... I'm in the process of understanding the will God may have put inside me, as well as understanding my own soul, but I believe no man can know God. However, some classmates of mind claim to have been healed from their issues. And some of them were actually gay, not just kinda gay. I believe them because afterwards they seemed happier.
Just like with me... I will always suffer from depression and shame. Even if I am straight, I still remember that I felt bisexual at one time. I am not capable of forgiving myself... That's why I wanna share my experiances so much. Because maybe if other people understand me, then I can finally forgive myself.

But you didn't know me back then... I'm messed up now, but back then I was 20x more messed up. I literally almost had an anxiety attack back then from the stress and had to go to the hospital for this shit. I stole hundreds of dollars to spend on spice, and would regularly overdose. And the heart palpitations and light headedness I'd feel from time to time weren't only from the drugs.

Xorkoth · Aug 27, 2015

psychedelicsoul said:
Really... so religion caused me to think anal sex and dicks are gross... Really? I don't think lesbians are gross, but I'm sure some people do... I guess that's religions fault.
Why did religion condemn gays in the first place?

It's also an issue that can be remedied through faith and religion, and isn't an issue unless the person chooses to come out. You don't wear homosexuality on your skin for the world to see

I'm not "blaming" them. Blaming is what you do if you think somebody has done something wrong. I don't think the choice to commit suicide is wrong period, so there's nobody to "blame"

I really feel, deep down in my soul, that not being straight hinders my path to true enlightenment. People have been fighting for generations to purify their own souls and help purify other souls.
The soul needs to be cleansed like the body does.

There's a huge difference between thinking penises and anal sex are gross, and the kind of stuff you constantly talk about here (some of which you can find in the post I quoted). I think anal sex is gross too, but I don't crusade against homosexuals. There's clearly a lot more going on in your head about it than just "eww, that's gross".

psychedelicsoul · Aug 27, 2015

Xorkoth said:
There's a huge difference between thinking penises and anal sex are gross, and the kind of stuff you constantly talk about here (some of which you can find in the post I quoted). I think anal sex is gross too, but I don't crusade against homosexuals. There's clearly a lot more going on in your head about it than just "eww, that's gross".

I don't hate them, I hate their movement... I also think that it's a spiritual affliction that can cause mental problems.

Just like I don't hate jews, but I hate zionists.

Xorkoth · Aug 28, 2015

You just made my point.

methyldreams · Aug 29, 2015

think we are all well off topic here trying to convince psychedlic that his way of condition is wrong.
everyone finds there own way like someone said about the ability to adapt is what makes us human.
I myself are trying to change my own thinking which is hard as fuck. Im trying to live a straight life after 15yrs being the most corrupted person and soul you could imagine.
Look into a mirror, look into your own eyes and forgive yourself.
and pysch I had gayphobia as a kid and cause I never had a girelfriend for years and was reasonably good looking people even my own family thought i was gay, I experimented with that root hahah but nothing there aroused me. so were you full on gay like watch gay porn and fantasize bout having sex with men or even doing it with men? and you self tortuted to become hetrosexual?

psychedelicsoul · Aug 29, 2015

methyldreams said:
so were you full on gay like watch gay porn and fantasize bout having sex with men or even doing it with men? and you self tortuted to become hetrosexual?

Not really, I had always been atleast 80% straight. I did watch shotacon and had gay fantasies for a while, but as I've said, I did torture it out of me.

psychedelicsoul · Aug 29, 2015

ForEverAfter said:
If he successfully tortured himself into being heterosexual, he wouldn't have issues hugging a guy.
People who are comfortable with their sexuality don't have issues hugging the same sex.

No dude... I have issues hugging my grandma. It's not a sexual thing, it's really more likely an autism/aspergers thing. I'm not sure. But I feel uncomfortable hugging my own mom.

ForEverAfter · Aug 29, 2015

O/T

NSFW:

methyldreams · Aug 29, 2015

ok
ForEverAfter yo8u are 90% right and we are the community that the establishment never wanted, but as I have followed blo0gs and forum since the early 90's they unsaid rule is that you stay on the original posters topic, yeah of course we are all here to help others that didnt have the luxury to read people experiences before hand.
Yeah we are I know but cmon VBLUELIGHT BRING IN A OPEN CHAT/VIDEO PLACE FOR US TO GATHER!!!!!!!!

ForEverAfter · Aug 29, 2015

O/T

NSFW:

methyldreams · Aug 29, 2015

I'm 100% straight and IO can admit I know when another guy is good looking etc... if you not know me already i live for drugs if i was anything even .000001% bi I would have used that to get drugs and dont think it hasnt come up in my world so fuck you all who think good looking guys with no girl friends are gay

psychedelicsoul · Aug 29, 2015

ForEverAfter said:
It's obviously sexual. You described it as "gay".
You can't get rid of sexuality. You can bury it, but it remains there (dormant).
I can still see it (your repressed homosexuality), even if you don't think it exists.

Listen... If you're gonna be so stubborn with that belief and refuse to accept the possibility of change, then you're too closed minded to discuss this with

This idea of torturing the gay out of yourself is something I've been through, to a lesser extent.
I've been conflicted about same-sex attraction. I've felt guilty about it. I thought it was "wrong".
And, I've buried it too.

That just makes you a quitter.

The only way to deal with it - truly - is to see if you like gay sex, and see whether or not that lifestyle would work for you.
Having explored that option (and, being bisexual) I don't actually want to go down that path.
I discovered that I'd rather be in a relationship with a woman.

I'd do that, if I didn't think it was fucking nasty. It also goes against my religion. I don't know if you're an athiest, nihilist, or whatever... but there's more to humanity than just our physical bodies. We have a spirit that takes precedence.

You should stop running away from who you are, and just find out.
It's pretty simple. If you're happier one way than another (and you're not hurting anyone), just do it.
If you choose not to take this advice, you're going to miss out on a lot of happiness.

No the fuck it won't... I tried to be happy being bi. It doesn't work. I can't. Because my soul and the will of God within my soul tells me that it's wrong and that heterosexuality is superior.
I don't know what your soul is telling you... But you don't "find" yourself. You become yourself. Who you are is your choice. Stop being a slave to whatever your desires tell you to do and change your desires in your favor.

Re-writing your behavior is, of course, possible.
Look at abstinent priests and monks.

Somebody compared this to re-writing substance abuse.
And, sure, that comparison makes sense.

I wasn't re-writing my behavior. I was re-writing myself entirely.

I disagree. I believe in community.
That's what this site is, after all. A community.
Psychedelic Soul has opened over a dozen threads.
He literally asked us whether or not it was wrong.

I did that moreso to test the way people think here.

I'm, honestly, more concerned about a young person taking his advice or adopting his point of view.

Why? If they can change their sexuality, they'll be even happier if they accepted it. Because change creates pride

T

he bit in bold. I think what happened is you unearthed a bunch of repressed shit with psychedelics.
The child pornography stuff is almost certainly going to trigger something when you trip.

I think I misworded that. The psychedelics were what gave me the confidence to change. I knew I hated myself before even doing them.

Indicating that you didn't watch gay porn, only gay child porn?
Correct?

Nope, shotacon was just harder to quit. I did get turned on by adult males before, but it was easier to change that desire. I believe all of us are sexually fluid.

(Side note: Amanita Muscaria can be very confusing, but it can also be the opposite.)

[/nsfw][/QUOTE]

drug_mentor · Aug 29, 2015

psychedelicsoul said:
That just makes you a quitter.

This must be one of the best examples of cognitive dissonance that I have ever seen in my life.

Doesn't the whole notion of changing your predilections strike you as an attempt to "quit" said predilections? You are trying to opt out of, or quit, your sexuality.

To accuse someone else who attempted to quit these feelings, who then subsequently decided that it was not worth the effort/desirable/possible/whatever as being a quitter doesn't make any sense. Regardless of the path they ultimately pursued, they would be a quitter.

If you have truly eliminated the sexual urges which you don't wish to have (which I highly doubt) then you are the definition of a quitter, in the sense that you quit your own naturalistic urges. To me, quitting who you are is of much greater magnitude than attempting to do so, and subsequently realising that such an endeavour is unproductive and/or impossible.

psychedelicsoul said:
Who you are is your choice. Stop being a slave to whatever your desires tell you to do and change your desires in your favor.

You are just as much a slave to your desires as anyone else, the only difference is that your physical desires are incongruent with your perception of your ideal self. You desire to be different than you are, and you are a slave to this pursuit, to the extent that you glorify self torture as a means of escaping it.

psychedelicsoul · Aug 29, 2015

drug_mentor said:
You are trying to opt out of, or quit, your sexuality.

Because I wanted to. I knew it wasnt' easy, and I decided to do what I thought was the morally correct decision.

If you have truly eliminated the sexual urges which you don't wish to have (which I highly doubt) then you are the definition of a quitter, in the sense that you quit your own naturalistic urges. To me, quitting who you are is of much greater magnitude than attempting to do so, and subsequently realising that such an endeavour is unproductive and/or impossible.

Well yea.. the same thing could be said about smoking. It takes effort to quit something bad.

You are just as much a slave to your desires as anyone else, the only difference is that your physical desires are incongruent with your perception of your ideal self. You desire to be different than you are, and you are a slave to this pursuit, to the extent that you glorify self torture as a means of escaping it

.

My physical desires have changed. My soul is stronger than my body. I don't run from problems, I destroy problems. I'm not running from anything.

methyldreams · Aug 30, 2015

psychedelicsoul said:
Because I wanted to. I knew it wasnt' easy, and I decided to do what I thought was the morally correct decision.

Well yea.. the same thing could be said about smoking. It takes effort to quit something bad.

.

My physical desires have changed. My soul is stronger than my body. I don't run from problems, I destroy problems. I'm not running from anything.

good on you brother!!@!!

methyldreams · Aug 30, 2015

drug_mentor said:
This must be one of the best examples of cognitive dissonance that I have ever seen in my life.

Doesn't the whole notion of changing your predilections strike you as an attempt to "quit" said predilections? You are trying to opt out of, or quit, your sexuality.

To accuse someone else who attempted to quit these feelings, who then subsequently decided that it was not worth the effort/desirable/possible/whatever as being a quitter doesn't make any sense. Regardless of the path they ultimately pursued, they would be a quitter.

If you have truly eliminated the sexual urges which you don't wish to have (which I highly doubt) then you are the definition of a quitter, in the sense that you quit your own naturalistic urges. To me, quitting who you are is of much greater magnitude than attempting to do so, and subsequently realising that such an endeavour is unproductive and/or impossible.

You are just as much a slave to your desires as anyone else, the only difference is that your physical desires are incongruent with your perception of your ideal self. You desire to be different than you are, and you are a slave to this pursuit, to the extent that you glorify self torture as a means of escaping it.

exuse me but how do you get his a quitter because he has changed himself from a traight that is not normal ???

ForEverAfter · Aug 30, 2015

This is insane.

methyldreams · Aug 30, 2015

longlivebluelighttheplacewerecraziescomeandmeetandexpresstherefuckedupopinions

ForEverAfter · Aug 30, 2015

Uh-huh.

ordinary mind · Aug 30, 2015

I think the answer to this question is very much dependent on what exactly it is that the 'mental conditioning' intends to achieve. If we are debating whether it is possible to literally reduce the intensity of perceived emotion in response to specific stimuli, then the answer would be 'not really'. There are multiple physiological mechanisms in the brain which work in synchrony to moderate emotional responses to varying stimuli. I'm not totally confident on the science here, but I think the core physiological means of moderating emotional experience works like a feedback loop type mechanism.

I'll try a very crude on the spot example... let's say we take a person that has been conditioned through their life to be really sensitive about their weight because their estranged mother used to call them fat when they were younger. They remained self-conscious about this throughout their adult life, but have never had to deal with this self-esteem issue head-on so it becomes somewhat repressed/neglected. For science, let's say we pay someone to say really nasty things about this guys weight to his face... chances are our subject will have a highly negative emotional experience. But what if we repeat the experiment again every week/month/whatever? Fatso will still get upset, but to a lesser degree each time.

So from this, I can sort of see where people are coming from by suggesting self-inflicted negativity, such as pain or horror films etc. However, the brains processing of emotion and mood is incredibly complex, so it isn't a simple case of 'expose self to sad/unpleasant experience=next similar experience will be less unpleasant'. In reality, there are soooooooo many variables that effect our response to each experience we have that this approach would simply be too unreliable in practice. To return to my previous example of insecure fat man, although I explained that there would be a trend for him to be less sad each time he gets insulted, it is faaaaaar from being an exact science. Factors such as how his mood was prior to being insulted, and any other related life experiences or thought patterns that he might have had prior to getting insulted might influence his perception of each attack.

Basically, the point that I've been trying to make here in a needlessly rambled manner is that the brain and the mechanisms that deal with emotions are far too complex and difficult to standardise for them to be programmed into reducing the automated emotion percieved. Furthermore, there are innumerable variables in the ever changing life experiences and circumstances of an individual, both external and internal, which makes the task of reducing targeted emotional responses in an individual effectively impossible. In short, there are too many variables for such an experiment on consciousness to be sufficiently consistent when administering the conditioned experience.

Ultimately, our emotional responses are the result of millions of years of evolution, and they are the way they are for good reason - i.e. seeking positive environments, avoiding negative/stressful environments. If someone was to truly feel that their uncharacteristic emotional responses are severe to the point of reducing quality of life, then I could sympathise with this and recommend seeking professional help (or mindfulness/meditation....which I have a bit to say about)

So, while altering the experience of specific fundamental emotional responses through conditioning is clearly not a realistic option (assuming my above argument is not flawed), then how about taking another approach to the problem? Instead of trying to 'force' unwanted emotions to cooperate with your will, why not try and learn from them? The mental conditioning method is effectively equivelent to repressing unwanted conscious experiences, and that's simply not productive or healthy for personal development. A much better attitude would be to be observant and mindful of the emotional and psychological reactions experienced day to day. If you find yourself having a negative emotional reaction to a particular train of thought or passing comment from someone, allow yourself to be aware of and honest to yourself about this, but allow the emotion to pass (i.e. don't start dwelling on something that will make you more angry). Being mindful of emotions without being controlled by them offers the opportunity to gain some insight into why you reacted in this negative way, because you learn to analyse your mental processes objectively (rationally) and without becoming influenced by emotion (irrational). There is a lot of overlap with what I have talked about here and meditation but I think I've probably rambled enough haha, so I'll just say meditation is definately a good thing to get into, BUT it is not necessary to meditate in order to retain a mindful awareness in your day to day life... making this small change to your way of thinking will almost certainly improve your quality of life and help you to better understand your own mind.

Mental Conditioning

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