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[Mega] Harm protection supplements

Folley said:
Ugh. That was a lot of work :p


I'm going to defer to here now though:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/80280-5-HTP?s=

I don't really feel qualified to discuss further I think I've at least stressed the point I was trying to make, so I'm not going to hold back further talk with my absent knowledge on the subject.. :\
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Thanks for moving it over, your work is appreciated! Kind of ironic how you moved it into the supplements thread to have a proper discussion, then decided to terminate discussion now its here.

Can anybody else chime in about 5-HTP? Either anecdotes or journals would be good to hear.

EDIT: I'll have a look over that 5-HTP thread also.
 
Advanc3d said:
Yes long term 5-htp usage depletes Dopamine.

serotonin and dopamine precursors use the same enzymes. and that enzyme is rate limiting.
so when ur taking 5-htp everyday, the enzyme is converting it to serotonin, but that enzyme gets depleted and dopamine's production is inhibited.


the only way to have optimal levels is to take both dopamine and serotonin precursors and not just one.

long term 5-htp usage causes depression and unbalanced neurotransmittor levels.
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Following this logic.....I have a question....

I've been overdoing mephedrone over the last few weeks (3g in 2 weeks, in small doses every 2-3 days). However I have a big night on Saturday that I'm planning on taking MDMA. I really don't want to have screwed up my chances of a really good night due to this meph use.

Anyway, it's said that Mephedrone, whilst having a small effect upon serotonin, is mainly acting through dopamine. Soooooooo if I use a corollary of what you were saying.......might my Mephedrone use have depleted this particular shared enzyme, thus inhibiting my serotonin production?

If the reason people "lose the magic" of MDMA after mephedrone use due to this, then would supplementing with 5htp and EGCG the day before MDMA help out my production of serotonin and help the MDMA have its fuller effects?
 
^ The day before isn't likely to do anything, and actually a lot of people say dosing 5-HTP too close to an MDMA dose actually kills the roll quite a bit.

A pill is not going to undo the damage that has already been caused by past abuse, especially in one day. 5-HTP has been shown to be helpful AFTER a roll to counter some of the more damaging side effects, but again it's not a wonder drug and the only real thing that is going to repair your serotonin system and get rid of tolerance is abstinence from stimulant drugs.
 
Folley said:
^ The day before isn't likely to do anything, and actually a lot of people say dosing 5-HTP too close to an MDMA dose actually kills the roll quite a bit.

A pill is not going to undo the damage that has already been caused by past abuse, especially in one day. 5-HTP has been shown to be helpful AFTER a roll to counter some of the more damaging side effects, but again it's not a wonder drug and the only real thing that is going to repair your serotonin system and get rid of tolerance is abstinence from stimulant drugs.
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You didn't really address my (albeit layman's) description of why I think it might work. Re the enzyme that produces serotonin and dopamine....
 
^ That's a damn good question, there really isn't much focus on NE when it comes to MDMA at all... methamphetamine effects it to a much higher degree, perhaps looking at evidence related to that may help you.. the two drugs are pretty similar in neurological action, just with much different affinities. So anything that goes for meth when it comes to NE should be the same for MDMA, but to a lesser degree.
 
Folley said:
^ That's a damn good question, there really isn't much focus on NE when it comes to MDMA at all... methamphetamine effects it to a much higher degree, perhaps looking at evidence related to that may help you.. the two drugs are pretty similar in neurological action, just with much different affinities. So anything that goes for meth when it comes to NE should be the same for MDMA, but to a lesser degree.
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Thanks, Folley. I'll check out the meth forum to see what I can find. I'll report back. http://i.bluelight.ru/s/smile.gif
 
i think dark chocolate/ cocoa has positive effects on the epinephrine system, but don't quote me on that its just i think i read it somewhere lol
 
The norepinephrine system isn't really one that's liable to damage like the serotonin and dopamine systems. The issue with norepinephrine is usually that too much release will put a lot of stress on your cardiovascular system. Post-stimulant fatigue is usually a result of over-expression of MAO, and is thus corrected by taking MAOI's, particularly MAO-B inhibitors such as Selegiline. Also, L-Dopa is also metabolized into norepinephrine.

Dark chocolate has decent amounts of Phenethylamine and Tyramine, which are endogenous 'amphetamine' like substances. They would make you feel better on a short term basis, but wouldn't be of much use to repair any sort of brain damage.
 
By green coffee extract does that possibly include green coffee bean extract (GCBE) which is more commonly used as a weight loss supplement?
 
so other than the list on the first page, are there any other good recommendations to take? going to stock up full of supplements, thanks in advance!
 
mkdofa8946 said:
so other than the list on the first page, are there any other good recommendations to take? going to stock up full of supplements, thanks in advance!
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I really wouldn't recommend "stocking up full" on supplements personally.

Piracetam + a choline agent if you need it is a *very* interesting supplement for MDMA and related, but not really for "harm protection". Instead it "enhances" the roll for many (myself included). Effects are *very* variable, but IMHO it's worth a try, both for the potentiation and the overall "brain energy boost" (some get it, some don't...).

I've never tried magnesium, but I've heard others say that it indeed does reduce jaw clenching.

Green tea, whether extract or (better) by the cup, is probably a very good one to play "clean up crew" (anti-oxidant) after the experience. R-ALA might also be interesting in this regard, but green tea has way more tradition and studies behind it.

Melatonin will help calm down; it's a better sleep aid than the shitty histamines sold OTC.

The rest of the list? I dunno. I really don't know any supplement that will protect you from the temporary downregulation of MDMA, or help you much afterwards.

I guess I could say some supplements for general exercise aid and well being, because a healthy body will help the experience overall. Aside from piracetam and green tea (along with various other foods), most of my supps are to "enhance" exercise (creatine, beta-alanine, taurine, and the "experiment" forskolin) or act as an insurance policy (multivitamin; fish oil may be worth a try if you don't eat a lot of creatures of the sea). These are supplements, not the foundation. The foundation is eating right and exercising.
 
I added a warning about selegiline to the first post. I can't believe that nobody has done that previously - high doses of selegiline inhibit MAO-A, not just MAO-B, and that needs to be clarified. The fact that its an irreversible MAO inhibitor means that a warning should have been there a long time ago.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
I added a warning about selegiline to the first post. I can't believe that nobody has done that previously - high doses of selegiline inhibit MAO-A, not just MAO-B, and that needs to be clarified. The fact that its an irreversible MAO inhibitor means that a warning should have been there a long time ago.
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Another word of caution: women taking birth control will show 10x plasma levels of selegiline, which can be fatal if combined with stimulants. Beware!
 
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